Will it be the EOS M1? [CR2]

[Canon Rumors Guy]

We’re told that  early chatter about Canon’s “prosumer” mirrorless body has started to make its way beyond the engineers at Canon. No test bodies have made their way to anybody outside of Canon, but we’re told that various early prototypes have been passed around internally.</p>
<p>There is a certain “buzz” about the camera internally and we’re told that the marketing push for the camera will be one of the company’s biggest. The mirrorless market is still small, but it’s definitely growing and a lot of people think Canon will be the company to bring it “mainstream”, which may sound arrogant, but most camera buyers aren’t frequenting this web site, nor do they hear the negative chatter about the perceived lack of innovation from Canon. The brand still has clout and should for many more years, even with the missteps some enthusiasts feel have taken place.</p>

<p>A second source said there’s no way the camera will be APS-C, as the EOS M5 is selling well, and the company needs a halo mirrorless camera, and that is only possible with a full frame sensor.</p>
<p>Sony may be leading the way in full frame mirrorless cameras, but Nikon (likely ahead of Canon) and Canon appear to finally be coming to the table.</p>
<p>We wouldn’t be shocked to see a “development” announcement shortly after Nikon announces their full frame mirrorless camera.</p>
<p><em>More to come….</em></p>
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[BeenThere]

Sounds like it's at least two years away. Canon is very late to the party.

 

[jolyonralph]

This has been worked on for a while, remember - the longer you spend developing and fine-tuning a camera the more likely that your basic technology (eg sensor) is going to be out of date the day you launch.

Things like the form factor, lens mount, etc, these are decisions that would have been made a long time ago. You design the stuff that doesn't age first, and then as you get closer to your launch date you build in the latest tech you have available. If there are prototypes going around Canon right now then that would indicate they're in that final stage of internal acceptance, which means they're unlikely to step back now.

 

[C-A430]

COOL people are last to the party, yet they ARE the party. ;D

 

[tschouten]

I really hope that they will bring a system camera with EF mount. By doing so you will have way more ppl adapting to this camera.

 

[jolyonralph]

I really hope they *DON'T* use EF mount. New mount please, as long as there are cheap and reliable adaptors to EF, and ideally one included in the box.

However there's not much chatter right now about new FF mirrorless lenses from Canon so I suspect that it may end up being a FF mirrorless with EF mount, which means it's going to be much bigger than the competition. Let's see how that pans out.

 

[traveller]

I really hope that they will bring a system camera with EF mount. By doing so you will have way more ppl adapting to this camera.

Or you just but the EF-EOS M Mount Adapter, which is £88 here in the UK: not exactly break the bank time if you're willing to pony up for a full frame mirrorless camera.

 

[MintChocs]

I really hope that they will bring a system camera with EF mount. By doing so you will have way more ppl adapting to this camera.

I have a horrible fear it will be a new mount, another good excuse to help Canon keep filling those treasure chests.

 

[jolyonralph]

Canon want to make a profit, so yes, selling you brand new lenses for the brand new camera is high in their priorities

On the plus side, these will be lenses tailored for this body.

Don't forget even if it has EF mount there will still be only a number of lenses that will focus accurately and fast with it depending on the focus technology in the lens. Older designs will generally not fair as well as modern ones. There's a reason that the EF-M mount has only STM lenses.

So, will canon risk producing a body that reviews will find has only mixed performance depending on what lens you pair with it? I hope not.

 

[mjg79]

I still think Canon could find a middle ground by retaining the EF mount as it is - it's purely electronic and therefore able to change with the times very easily and also very large so can handle different designs - it was a fantastic decision in the 1980s - but allowing mirrorless lenses to be designed so the elements, one would assume with protection around them, can intrude into the space currently taken up with the mirror box. Look up a photo of the Leica 21mm 1.4 and you'll see how they do it, albeit on a smaller scale.

This would allow Canon to have their cake and eat it. Call it EF-X with a blue dot on all EF-X lenses and going forward all EF-X cameras that are mirrorless have the blue dot on the mount that way there is no confusion. (just like today when EF-S is physically the same as EF but EF lens can't be used on it). It would mean every EF lens can mount natively. It would mean Canon could slowly start releasing wide angle lenses without needing retrofocal designs as the elements could be nearer the sensor, thus they could be much smaller. We could get wide angle pancake lenses with elements hidden inside. It would mean the current 300 2.8 works perfectly, handles much nicer than it ever could on a tiny mirrorless mount but they could also release a small 18mm lens to exploit the mirrorless tech.

Currently the Sony approach works well for wide angle lenses but actually seems to make longer lenses get bigger. It also makes for an unbalanced experience with long lenses.

 

[rlan214]

relax guys its just an M5 body with 6D2 sensor, last time I check 6d2 sensor is just meh
maybe if canon give us ef mount it suddenly creates a 'buzz'

also maybe I'm just salty since I was hoping to upgrade my 6D with 6D2

 

[VooDooZG]

relax guys its just an M5 body with 6D2 sensor, last time I check 6d2 sensor is just meh
maybe if canon give us ef mount it suddenly creates a 'buzz'

also maybe I'm just salty since I was hoping to upgrade my 6D with 6D2

Canon has buried 6d2 sensor somewhere deep enough to never see it again - so there is no chance to be that 6 year old sensor, probably 5d4 or something newer, even 1year old M5 have new sensor ( on old of sensor a/d crap like 6d2)

 

[james75]

relax guys its just an M5 body with 6D2 sensor, last time I check 6d2 sensor is just meh
maybe if canon give us ef mount it suddenly creates a 'buzz'

also maybe I'm just salty since I was hoping to upgrade my 6D with 6D2

Canon has buried 6d2 sensor somewhere deep enough to never see it again - so there is no chance to be that 6 year old sensor, probably 5d4 or something newer, even 1year old M5 have new sensor ( on old of sensor a/d crap like 6d2)

God I hope it won't have the 6d2 sensor. I agree with what another posted said a few months back, that canon's first FF mirrorless body will probably fit in between the 6d2 and the 5d4, that's why they put in old sensor tech in the 6d2.
I really wish we had more info on what new cameras canon has coming so I can either keep waiting or upgrade to something else.

 

[AvTvM]

so funny, all the whimpering re. new native FF mirrorless mount. Of course both Nikon and Canon FF MILCs will come with new, short FFD mounts.

It offers best of both worlds. More compact camera body and lenses in the most used focal length range. And full back compatibility with all existing EF lenses by means of a simple "extension tube" adapter - just like the EF-/EF-M adapter. Hopefully Canon will sell it for max. 99 USD or €. All EF lenses with STM or Nano USM AF will behave exactly as on any current EOS DSLR and all other EF lenses will work exactly as in live view mode on any current EOS DSLR.

Maybe there will also be a second, somewhat more complex and expensive adapter, complete with (fixed) mirror to enable 100% Phase-AF operation for all (older) EF-lenses. Just like the Sony LA3 adapter [currently USD / € 249].

All those who want the adapter permamently affixed to the camera body can glue it in and be done with it. No prob whatsoever.

 

[jolyonralph]

I'm pretty much convinced that most of those who claim they wouldn't buy a Canon mirrorless camera unless it supported native EF mount are the sort of people who wouldn't buy any FF Canon mirrorless camera anyway.

 

[unfocused]

Once again, this discussion illustrates why a full-frame mirrorless may never come to market.

No matter what you do, half the people who claim to want a full-frame mirrorless will immediately reject whatever Canon puts out because it doesn't match exactly what they imagined.

I'm one who seriously doubts they will add a fourth mount. I don't really care, but I see all sorts of practical problems down the road if they do. Sticking with the EF Mount is the safest bet and risks the least, so I'm guessing that's what will happen. Time will tell.

 

[dak723]

I'm pretty much convinced that most of those who claim they wouldn't buy a Canon mirrorless camera unless it supported native EF mount are the sort of people who wouldn't buy any FF Canon mirrorless camera anyway.

I can only speak for myself, but I would strongly consider buying the Canon mirrorless FF if it is EF mount. I would be very hesitant to buy if it is a new mount.

 

[Deleted member 378875]

I'm a complete rank amateur and not a technician so please excuse me if this contains glaring mistakes but I'm not too sure why there's such a debate about the mount : surely it'll either be EF or EF-M plus adaptor or something else with adaptor ... either way won't all our modern existing lenses are all going to work fantastically well ? Can we not all be absolutely 100% certain Canon will attend to autofocus and get it working just fine ?

For me, my main concern (apart from image quality) is going to be the quality and refresh rate of that little TV screen inside the viewfinder. I've got an M5 and my personal opinion is that compared to my 5D-iv its frankly complete rubbish. Panning, zooming, focussing all seem to take forever to catch up. The picture is small and grainy - oh and, whilst I'm having a whinge - the silly little slider dioptre control is completely impossible to set accurately - which means my wife and I can't pass the camera between each other and see properly with naked eye.

If Canon come up with a giant crystal-clear Viewfinder screen which refreshes near-instantly - which is essentially just as good as an optical viewfinder - and especially if they could come up with menu-driven dioptre control with a user-memory setting - then the only serious debate is image quality and shooting performance (fps etc) ... isn't it ?

 

[Bekippe]

Here is a wild idea. Canon showed with the 5DIV the ability to manipulate focus after the fact (to a small degree) using dual pixel raw files. This shows them working to break down the image at a pixel level, and then recombine it with a specific changes. So, here is the idea. Split pixel based flange distance reduction.

Assuming enough processing power, you could possible apply a correction for lenses with an incorrect flange distance. Also, assuming lens repeatability, it could be similar to automatic distortion correction profiles.

Mount any EF lens and the camera adjusts for the focus correction factor. You could then have the mount capability similar to EF-S; allowing all existing EF lenses on the new system but having a variant that only mounts to the mirrorless which is designed around the small flange distance.

 

[ahsanford]

Is there room for another price point in APS-C mirrorless? Maybe. A beefy-gripped/sealed/tough high fps 7D2-like beast in mirrorless is certainly possible. But if none of the EF-M lenses are weathersealed or pack USM focusing, you'd be forcing the prosumer class to use bigger/heavier EF glass to get the most out of it. That 'works' for longer glass, but no high end standard zoom or UWA zoom exists for those guys. Surely better/faster EF-M lenses need to materialize if such a rig is to be offered.

- A