Worked as Wedding Photographer dealing with unprofessional videographer
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AcutancePhotography said:So when you have a silll photographer and a videographer working the same event, what is the professional etiquette? Which one gets "priority"?
But in any case, it looks like this videographer was not very considerate. But then we are only getting one side of the story. I wonder if this videographer is on another forum talking about this wedding he shot were this still photographer kept getting in the way.
in every job i've worked the photo guy took the lead, and i would jump in front of the video guy if need be. i wouldn't unless needed, but i would and do in a heartbeat. these photos of the video guy at the alter are standard fair for me. really, this is ashame, but i get this all the time. you try to work the angles to not get them in the shot but it's a fast moving flowing situation, and often you get what you get. unless you want to take over the whole damn thing and stage it all, and i don't and the bride/groom don't either. so you get what you get.
when someone gets dropped off, and you're not buds that already agreed to hook up people with a ride, you are being put on notice that you are in the sh)t.
the reaction here to this post is much nicer than when i came on here to talk about what had happened to me some time ago. if i recall correctly it was a wedding guest hounding me all night, setting up shots(not wanted or requested),asking me if i had any batteries she could use, as her flash was eating them due to the dark reception venue, and generally annoying me all day. i seem to recall you guys saying something to the effect that i was a whiner and that i should deal. well, of course i did deal and i did the job. sometimes you guys can .... ah,forget it
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AcutancePhotography said:So when you have a silll photographer and a videographer working the same event, what is the professional etiquette? Which one gets "priority"?
But in any case, it looks like this videographer was not very considerate. But then we are only getting one side of the story. I wonder if this videographer is on another forum talking about this wedding he shot were this still photographer kept getting in the way.
I would think that priority is set by the bride... as professionals, we should realize that this can be a problem so we should address it up front and make sure that all parties know it..... and don't forget "uncle Fred" with his brand new Rebel....
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One more good reason to not have video. Get the damn video crap outta my camera!!!
One more good reason not to do wedding photography!
And "videographer" seems a bit pretentious for some kid who needs to have his mommy drive him around. Were the bride and groom his babysitters? I'd reserve that term for people like Vincent Laforet.
One more good reason to not have video. Get the damn video crap outta my camera!!!
One more good reason not to do wedding photography!
And "videographer" seems a bit pretentious for some kid who needs to have his mommy drive him around. Were the bride and groom his babysitters? I'd reserve that term for people like Vincent Laforet.
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As for me I'm a behind the scenes guy, I think jumping in front of the videographer will be a never ending battle, being that either way even if I did, and telling him/her I need this shot they will still try to get it to get their job done. So I have to work around it. Luckily I didn't have uncle fred or bobby or whatever the new name is for it thankfully!
here's two more pics from that night!
here's two more pics from that night!
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Good find! you made me laugh. I like Lindsay a lot.gadgeteer said:
OK, back to the topic. What if the videographer is a relative of the bride? It becomes more common to have an uncle bob videographer than photographer.
I was shooting a video reception once and two photographers had 2 assistants with flashes on a stick and softbox. Wherever I went, one of the assistants always faced me. At one time they fired like 2 shots a minute. Can you imagine what these softboxes did to my video?
Both the video and photographer have the right. They are both paid to do their job. Photography is more important than video is only in your mind.
As a photographer, why don't you suggest to the bride to find a fusion videographer to work with. As a photographer, I do understand your need and pain when I shoot video.
As some videographers said, the videographer on these shots are not full time pro. But, what can you do? The bride decided to go cheap - her choice - you have to leave with it. This is why you are paid the big bucks. And I think, that's why I am a part-timer, I simply cannot stand the stress.
Don't get me wrong, nothing I hate most than having an uncle bob on my shots. I don't take anybody's side. Simply, you need to develop a technique on working with videographer, as much as you learned with uncle Bob.
Maybe it is time for someone to create a YouTube video on how for a bride to choose a videographer?
Indeed!Don Haines said:AcutancePhotography said:So when you have a silll photographer and a videographer working the same event, what is the professional etiquette? Which one gets "priority"?
But in any case, it looks like this videographer was not very considerate. But then we are only getting one side of the story. I wonder if this videographer is on another forum talking about this wedding he shot were this still photographer kept getting in the way.
I would think that priority is set by the bride... as professionals, we should realize that this can be a problem so we should address it up front and make sure that all parties know it..... and don't forget "uncle Fred" with his brand new Rebel....
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Of course, as the still photographer, I think stills have priorityAcutancePhotography said:So when you have a silll photographer and a videographer working the same event, what is the professional etiquette? Which one gets "priority"?
But in any case, it looks like this videographer was not very considerate. But then we are only getting one side of the story. I wonder if this videographer is on another forum talking about this wedding he shot were this still photographer kept getting in the way.
Indeed, the couple should have made their needs clear to all before the day however, neither should be standing virtually cheek to cheek with the couple. In this day and age of quality lenses (and wireless mikes), there is no need to intrude upon the couple to this degree. Unfortunately, not all vg people are seasoned pros and are overzealous to do a great job and get "in there close" and don't realize they just became the center of attention. I hope the vg isn't harping about the stills people as you couldn't fit a flea between him and the couple ;D
Sooner or later, hopefully less often than not, as a stills photographer you'll be faced with a vg like this. Unfortunately, you can't just walk up to him/her and ask that they step back. Not when he/she is right there! You'd think that would be the job of the vg well before the day explaining where he/she will be and when in order to get what the couple wants, or the minister at the time. Though I'm sure some ministers are afraid of disturbing the ceremony or the couple's wishes (he doesn't know if they actually want the vg right there). Wasn't there a minister making the rounds on video who kicked out the stills guy for shotgunning his cam? This is what this couple needed to tell the vg to take a step back so the guests could concentrate on the couple.
Nothing to do but to work with it and get your shots and pp them like the O/P if possible. I once had a vg guy set up his second camera on a tripod...in the middle of the aisle. The priest pointed out to him that there was now no way the bride could walk up the aisle so would he please remove it?
I've only had a few that were a little unprofessional like this ( like the one I mentioned with a tripoded cam in the aisle). Most I've met throughout the years, even those who are not "pros" but merely family shooting video, have always consulted with me just before the ceremony started. Maybe I've just been lucky to have dealt with considerate people and in turn, I try to consider where I stand in order to stay out of any video. The people who "circle" the couple are the toughest to deal with but you get through it by working a little harder. All part of the job.
Just had to come back and edit this. Sorry that everything was underlined :-[ That'll teach me to use preview mode.
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"Maximillian:
I really don't understand how bridal pairs can like something like that.
I told my wedding photographer to stay in the background and that this was the day for our guests and us to celebrate. It's more important to me to have a wonderful day then to have wonderful pics of that (less) wonderful day. (And our pictures were also great)
and;
docsmith:
Ha.....maybe this is becoming a thing. I was just at a wedding (as a guest as I am no pro) and kept noticing how close and intrusive the videographer was. Standing right in front of the alter as procession came in. So intrusive that the bridesmaids and groomsmen actually had to move around the videographer and separate early. Close enough to the cutting of the cake that I am surprised that they didn't get frosting on their lens. It all worked and I haven't heard the bride complain, but I felt for the photographer"
In recognition of my apparent non-status here, I try to minimize my presence whenever possible, but the op raises an issue I'm encountering all the more frequently as I shoot events. I generally shoot stills at events (parties, receptions, and so on...), and ALWAYS use a zoom (24-70, 24-105, 70-200). "Videographers" amateurs w/ cellies and p&s, and professionals are there and seem oblivious not just to me but to the interests of the other guests and even the principals of the events.
My results are not so affected thanks to my zooms and learning how to anticipate events, and the actions of these oblivious characters. Whenever possible I will try to talk things out with them beforehand, exchange cards, offer some collaboration, express my plans, but, for me, the last thing I want to do is ruin someone's event by getting in a hassle with guests or other hired guns; hence, anticipation.
I always get a planned flow from the hosts, organizers, and/or guests of honor, and this helps me avoid some hassle with other shooters.
The thing is, the uncle bobs and others don't necessarily always play by even the agreed-upon rules. Without getting into a fistfight I use the zooms, anticipation, and knowledge of the event to try to get there first, shoot, and move on so that the next can do the same. Ultimately, I suppose, despite all that, providence still plays a role...
I really don't understand how bridal pairs can like something like that.
I told my wedding photographer to stay in the background and that this was the day for our guests and us to celebrate. It's more important to me to have a wonderful day then to have wonderful pics of that (less) wonderful day. (And our pictures were also great)
and;
docsmith:
Ha.....maybe this is becoming a thing. I was just at a wedding (as a guest as I am no pro) and kept noticing how close and intrusive the videographer was. Standing right in front of the alter as procession came in. So intrusive that the bridesmaids and groomsmen actually had to move around the videographer and separate early. Close enough to the cutting of the cake that I am surprised that they didn't get frosting on their lens. It all worked and I haven't heard the bride complain, but I felt for the photographer"
In recognition of my apparent non-status here, I try to minimize my presence whenever possible, but the op raises an issue I'm encountering all the more frequently as I shoot events. I generally shoot stills at events (parties, receptions, and so on...), and ALWAYS use a zoom (24-70, 24-105, 70-200). "Videographers" amateurs w/ cellies and p&s, and professionals are there and seem oblivious not just to me but to the interests of the other guests and even the principals of the events.
My results are not so affected thanks to my zooms and learning how to anticipate events, and the actions of these oblivious characters. Whenever possible I will try to talk things out with them beforehand, exchange cards, offer some collaboration, express my plans, but, for me, the last thing I want to do is ruin someone's event by getting in a hassle with guests or other hired guns; hence, anticipation.
I always get a planned flow from the hosts, organizers, and/or guests of honor, and this helps me avoid some hassle with other shooters.
The thing is, the uncle bobs and others don't necessarily always play by even the agreed-upon rules. Without getting into a fistfight I use the zooms, anticipation, and knowledge of the event to try to get there first, shoot, and move on so that the next can do the same. Ultimately, I suppose, despite all that, providence still plays a role...
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It's the couple's fault; looks like you did your job.
When I got married, the minister was VERY careful to warn us about this sort of thing. He said it was our moment, but an intrusive photographer etc. would ruin things and he may ask them to back off.
We talked to the photog and he was totally cool, no issues had. Never even looked at the video . . . but then again, all we have is raw footage that I never got around to merge.
Of course, I say "get married on the cheap" now, and if it lasts 10 years, have a huge party/remarry. It's a lot more meaningful, you don't put your self into debt before becoming stable, and you have completely different friends (mostly).
When I got married, the minister was VERY careful to warn us about this sort of thing. He said it was our moment, but an intrusive photographer etc. would ruin things and he may ask them to back off.
We talked to the photog and he was totally cool, no issues had. Never even looked at the video . . . but then again, all we have is raw footage that I never got around to merge.
Of course, I say "get married on the cheap" now, and if it lasts 10 years, have a huge party/remarry. It's a lot more meaningful, you don't put your self into debt before becoming stable, and you have completely different friends (mostly).
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The picture of the second guy confirmed what I saw and was thinking with the first set of pics. These were kids. They probably talked their parents into buying them each a dslr because they think they can be the next Spielberg, Michael Bay, Ridley Scot, etc. This illustrates perfectly one of the major negative consequences of the democratization of video because of ultra affordable equipment that can produce image quality not available for even quadruple the money even ten years ago.
I am a TV photographer and I am in the camp that believes STILLS are the most important in a wedding. When I got married, I only had stills done. I didn't want video, as strange as that may sound to some.
Also, the term videographer is derogatory in the circles I run in(if you're referring to a professional that knows what they're actually doing) and it connotes in my mind, and most people I work with, exactly what was shown in those pictures, some clown shooting a wedding. I usually say "uncle Bob shooting a wedding with someones camcorder", but this was the same thing. So, yes, those guys are videographers.
I have seen some absolutely beautiful wedding videos done by some talented shooters, but that's not going to be one of them.
I am a TV photographer and I am in the camp that believes STILLS are the most important in a wedding. When I got married, I only had stills done. I didn't want video, as strange as that may sound to some.
Also, the term videographer is derogatory in the circles I run in(if you're referring to a professional that knows what they're actually doing) and it connotes in my mind, and most people I work with, exactly what was shown in those pictures, some clown shooting a wedding. I usually say "uncle Bob shooting a wedding with someones camcorder", but this was the same thing. So, yes, those guys are videographers.
I have seen some absolutely beautiful wedding videos done by some talented shooters, but that's not going to be one of them.
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meywd said:there is a solution for this problem
Hilarious… But a crappy picture.
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RunAndGun said:meywd said:there is a solution for this problem
Hilarious… But a crappy picture.
We as, photographers will critique each others work but normal people won't care about composition, they care about if the moment was captured. I think it was a great idea. As for a trash can being in there all day for a wedding would be disgusting
The last thing I need is my 5dmiii to smell like rotten food lol.
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Oh man, I would have told them something. I shot right around 50 weddings so far this year between photo and video, and fortunately I've never run into situation THAT bad. I have worked with a few amateurs, and I have always been extremely blunt when I see things like that taking place and they usually straighten up. If you're not afraid to be an asshole they usually stay out of your way.
But yeah, priority is definitely set by the bride. I think photography is viewed of the priority simply because it's been around longer than wedding videos. But like it's been said, at the end of the day you're both professionals (hopefully), and if everyone works together and thinks of themselves as a team instead of being more important, things work out great.
But yeah, priority is definitely set by the bride. I think photography is viewed of the priority simply because it's been around longer than wedding videos. But like it's been said, at the end of the day you're both professionals (hopefully), and if everyone works together and thinks of themselves as a team instead of being more important, things work out great.
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I think even if we communicated with the videographers they would still be doing what they were doing because of the limitations of the equipment. And again probably another never ending battle. They were cool people don't get me wrong but the equipment and professional courtesy was what they were lacking with.
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Yeah! That's probably right.alby87a said:
I believe the only people who could have said and done something were the couple as their and your boss.
And best would have been a few days before the wedding.
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RunAndGun said:
I agree about the term "videographer". As a professional who have been trained using heavy ENG-equipment, it always put me of, when the term "videographer" is thrown around loosely.
Maybe it's a language thing. In my first language(Danish), the titels videographer or photographer always have a strong association to the professions and committed professionals.
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I'm surprised that no one has asked but did you not speak to them? They quite obviously were amateurs but they might listen to reason. Otherwise fill flash for every single shot works well to break the ice
It also annoys me he is stood there in a pair or jeans and a stupid hat.
It also annoys me he is stood there in a pair or jeans and a stupid hat.
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This reminds me of Princess Diana's quote that there were 3 people in her marriage...
If the bride and groom wanted such in-your-face videography, why didn't they just wear GoPros? And why do I think somebody will have already done that in their wedding?
If the bride and groom wanted such in-your-face videography, why didn't they just wear GoPros? And why do I think somebody will have already done that in their wedding?
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