18 Stops of Dynamic Range - RED Dragon

[Freelancer]

http://filmmakermagazine.com/61605-reds-dragon-sensor-now-with-more-dynamic-range/


seems like every sensor maker improves it´s sensors except canon.

the new GH3 shows a big improvement and is as good as APS-C when it comes to noise, not to mention sonys great sensors .. and now RED.

and the 6D or 5D MK3?
marginal better ISO performance but lower spatial resolution and basically the same DR as a 4 year old camera.

 

[bdunbar79]

http://filmmakermagazine.com/61605-reds-dragon-sensor-now-with-more-dynamic-range/


seems like every sensor maker improves it´s sensors except canon.

the new GH3 shows a big improvement and is as good as APS-C when it comes to noise, not to mention sonys great sensors .. and now RED.

and the 6D or 5D MK3?
marginal better ISO performance but lower spatial resolution and basically the same DR as a 4 year old camera.

I know, Canon sucks.

 

[Canon-F1]

How is it that RED could enter the cinema camera market 7 years ago and now about 50% of the released features are “Shot on RED”?

How is it that Canon owned the professional stills market 3 years ago and now Nikon is handing them their @ss?

How did Arri convert all the old-school film guys to the Alexa?

Sensors, baby. Sensors.

Apparently Canon is married to old sensor fab technology. The Nikon D800 scores 95 on the DXO sensor scale. The brand new Canon 5D MKIII… 82. Really? That can’t be good.

Arri has a great sensor program… although a bit down on resolution from our point of view.

Enter the RED Dragon. This is sensor technology that makes all the big guys want to put on their helmets.

So how did Canon get so lost? Who are the camera companies that recognize that sensors are 90+% of a digital camera? Who is investing in sensor technology?

In order…

RED
Arri
Sony
the rest…

Of course there are other factors that matter in this highly competitive and fast changing market. Who will upgrade the sensor in your existing camera instead of making you buy a new camera?

No matter what your answers are to these questions… it is all coming down to who has the best sensor program. Sensors matter. Side note… film is officially dead.

blunt but correct...

 

[jondave]

Can an actual sensor engineer shed light on this matter? It's totally useless comparing a dedicated RED video sensor to a dedicated stills photo sensor, the R&D process is completely different. So what if the RED 4K sensor can capture 18 stops of DR? It's only 8 megapixels (4096x2160) for God's sake, I bet it will absolutely SUCK at taking stills photos.

All I read here is the usual biased 'Canon sucks' bashing. I want to hear real facts from an engineer saying that Canon's sensor tech is easily improveable and they're just slacking off.

 

[chauncey]

Now, if I could only figure out how to use my canon glass on those things.

 

[bdunbar79]

I know, Canon sucks.

compared to other sensors.. yes.. canon sensors suck.
if "sucks" means "being worse".

there is no denying it fanboy.

Who cares?

 

[bdunbar79]

It's really simple. If you are so unhappy with Canon's sensor tech, sell your Canon gear, switch to another company, and move on with your life. Unless of course, you are like some I know, who actually enjoy being unhappy so that they have something to bitch and complain about, because if they didn't, they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. The complainers to me, aren't actually credible, and I think they look really pathetic. I think it's a cry for attention (which, they're getting in a weird way).

 

[Marsu42]

I think it's a cry for attention (which, they're getting in a weird way).

And it's meeting a lot of receptive ears on CR as bdunbar79 just proved :-> ... but there's not only the "jump ship" option, but due to the lack of sensor advancement a lot of people might delay purchases or buy lower-speced cameras like the 6d over the 5d3 until Canon catches up.

 

[Axilrod]

Can an actual sensor engineer shed light on this matter? It's totally useless comparing a dedicated RED video sensor to a dedicated stills photo sensor, the R&D process is completely different. So what if the RED 4K sensor can capture 18 stops of DR? It's only 8 megapixels (4096x2160) for God's sake, I bet it will absolutely SUCK at taking stills photos.

Here is a single frame pulled from footage from a RED Epic, looks ok to me:

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

It sounds exiting, but, if I had a quarter for every promise they made that turned out wrong, I'd be rich. They seem to make statements based on hope.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

and the 6D or 5D MK3?
marginal better ISO performance but lower spatial resolution and basically the same DR as a 4 year old camera.

more like as a six year old camera

hopefully the new process rumors are correct and they have finally woken up (once upon a time Canon EOS used to known for being at the FOREFRONT of technology, now all they want to do is sit around and milk things until forced to act)

 

[Marsu42]

hopefully the new process rumors are correct and they have finally woken up

I'd be interesting to see how the 6d/5d3 sales to once Canon really improves their current ff tech concerning dr and maybe a little resolution - only then we'll see how important this issue really is, because of course now most proud 5d3/6d owners say that the current sensor is never limiting no matter what.

 

[TexPhoto]

I'd be interesting to see how the 6d/5d3 sales to once Canon really improves their current ff tech concerning dr and maybe a little resolution - only then we'll see how important this issue really is, because of course now most proud 5d3/6d owners say that the current sensor is never limiting no matter what.

I walk down the street telling random strangers just this.

I have a 5D3 and would love for it to have the specs of the D800. I'd consider switching save for a $15K investment in lenses. In the mean time I am shooting great photos and avoiding making sweeping generalizations about my peers. Oh and sometimes I bracket, and combine exposures.

 

[deleteme]

No, No, No.... don't bring out a new sensor yet!
I just bought two 5Dmk3s and I will get hosed on the resale.

Actually, I am very happy with them. More than enough res for anything. And as for DR it has enough for me. I have yet to be stumped by a scene that I could not manage if I really wanted to.

At bottom, a super wide DR gives one a RAW that looks dreadfully flat not gloriously beautiful. The info is all there. It is now for the photographer to post process the files to get what he/she wants.
I see further computer bondage in the future.

 

[sandymandy]

Why you need new Canon sensors like every year? If they pump out something awesome every 5 years im down with that. Would be crap if my new FF purchase would be blown away by next years release.

 

[Marsu42]

In the mean time I am shooting great photos and avoiding making sweeping generalizations about my peers.

Well, I did try to limit the generalization a little and of course it's just my 2ct personal opinion in a rumors forum. No doubt you can take great shots with a 5d3, 60d (my current camera) or 6d (my next camera). But imho it's like with all tech advancement, people on the older/current tech often seem to like to stick to the status quo, like b/w->color tv, horse carts->motor cars - you seem to be an exception to the rule if you say you'd like to have d800 specs.

At bottom, a super wide DR gives one a RAW that looks dreadfully flat not gloriously beautiful.

As long as the bit depth rises to 16bit, I don't see any problems with higher dr sensors - dropping data is easy, adding it after highlights are blown and shadows are noisy is another matter :-o

Why you need new Canon sensors like every year? If they pump out something awesome every 5 years im down with that. Would be crap if my new FF purchase would be blown away by next years release.

That's just it - the current Canon sensor tech is 5 years old (5d2-gen, recycled in 5d3/6d) - Canon is bound to make a big leap this or at least next year, if not for the sake of tech advancement then to keep up with the competition. The 1dx sensor with might be the first indication, it has other tech as the iso->dr curve shows.

 

[Marsu42]

highest QE and DR

Could you please post the link to the 6d dr curve (and comparisons to 5d3/5d2)? Thx.

 

[Marsu42]

You can read about different sensors QE and DR here http://www.sensorgen.info

Thanks for the link - does their testing method include the full highlight recovery available in raw?

The sensor in 6D is the best sensor from Canon today

... except for the 1dx (as far as I understand the figures).

About 6D. Anyone who uses low-ISO shadows, they will appreciate, like the much lessened banding noise, and if you like to use 800 and above you will like the lower noise, including banding noise and if you like to crop or print large will find more usable and real detail.

I'm looking forward to my 6d purchase (once the early adopters premium is gone) ... that's because if anything really kills my shots on the 60d it's banding when raising shadows, iso noise can be somewhat disguised if the final output size is small.

 

[The_Arsonist]

Can an actual sensor engineer shed light on this matter? It's totally useless comparing a dedicated RED video sensor to a dedicated stills photo sensor, the R&D process is completely different. So what if the RED 4K sensor can capture 18 stops of DR? It's only 8 megapixels (4096x2160) for God's sake, I bet it will absolutely SUCK at taking stills photos.

A couple of years ago I was shooting 8 megapixels on my 20D and doing just fine. Heck, I'm normally on mRAW on my 50D getting 7 megapixels. Go check out some of the photos taken by professional photographers on the Red Epic/Scarlet and see what you think

 

[brad-man]

Why you need new Canon sensors like every year? If they pump out something awesome every 5 years im down with that. Would be crap if my new FF purchase would be blown away by next years release.