1Ds Mark IV & 5D Mark III [CR0.5]

[moreorless]

54MP?

Assuming square pixels, FF area of 864mm^2:
sqrt(864mm^2/54000000Px) = 4 micron pixels.
Not 4.##, but exactly 4. Suspicious.

Similarly, for 24MP sensor, pixels are _exactly_ 6 microns.

What you're missing is that the megapixel counts are never exactly "000,000".

21MP ends up being 21,123,456 or some other odd number. Thus the "suspicion" in the "exactly" 4 or 6 microns is a result of your math assuming perfect numbers that won't exist in reality.

Thats true is we were talking about real advertised MP stats but what were considering here is whether there is any truth behind a rumour and the fact exact numbers like 4 and 6 crop up does tend to hint agenst that for me.

 

[Chewy734]

pro AF (e.g., better than the 7D?) on the 5D2? I'll take that. Specs look great, assuming they aren't made up.

 

[infared]

2. When has ANY camera manufacturer introduced a new up-graded sucessor to a camera body with many new features and kept the price the same. Now that is a pipe dream.

How about 5D Mark II ? I has lots of new features (improvement) compared to 5D classic.

Wrong. The 5DII wasn't the same introduction price as the original 5D. It was $500 cheaper...

Wasn't aware of that ...I bought back into digital with the 5D Mark II after after 15years of laying in wait. Sorry I didn't have my facts straight. My bad.

 

[Chewy734]

Maybe they can include a built-in *** like they did on the new S100. I hate carrying a logger with me and then deal with the hassles in post-processing.

 

[K-amps]

The specs on the 5D3 seem more plausible then the 1Ds, especially the MP's. If indeed true, the 1Ds could top out to $9-10k. It needs a lot more feastures to justify a 2-3x price premium. If the 5D3 does not have better Dynamic range then the 5D2... the used prices for the 5D2 are not coming down as fast as some people are hoping.

Canon pls release a 70-400mm f3.5 L for $2k :-* That would be money better spent then a new body with 10% more mp ...

 

[Stuart]

Two stops - one for the mew processing engine and one for the sensor -
"DIGIC 5 analyses four times more image information to create each pixel, recording more detail and colour from a scene than ever before. Processing speed is also six times faster compared to the previous processor, efficiently managing the increase in scene information and simultaneously reducing the appearance of image noise by up to 75%"

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Typically, when Canon says two stops better ISO, they are refering to jpeg output. A more powerful processor can indeed do a better NR job and produce jpeg images with less apparent noise at higher ISO settings, but when using RAW, that actual ISO improvement might be 1/2 stop, or 3/4 stop at best as it comes off the sensor.

This was the case with the 1D Mark IV, and was due to improved NR algorithms that could be powered by the dual Digic IV processors.

 

[willhuff.net]

I'd be a little disappointed if they were only able to add 3mp to the camera after 3 years.

 

[unfocused]

The terse comment "Pro Grade AF (not like 7D)....just the wording makes me think this is made up...like the guy has a beef about the autofocus situation (which is lackluster).. on the 5DMark II and is just venting.

+1

I think this rumor deserves the CR 0.5 rating.

From what I've been able to tell reading this forum is that most 5D users would be very happy with the 7D autofocus. Seems a bit condescending to me to make a point of saying the 7D autofocus is not "pro grade." Certainly not something anyone connected to or knowledgeable about Canon would likely say.

I would not be surprised if the 5D and the 1Ds have different sensors. But, more than twice the mp? Sounds unlikely. 24mp seems too low for the 5D (I would expect the next 7D to have 24mp). This sounds like a "bigger and fewer pixels" fetishist wishing for the least possible increase in the 5D.

1Ds with "decent" 6400 and 5D with two stops more than current model or 102,400. That would likely mean the 5D would have better low light performance than the 1Ds. I don't think so.

All-in-all, this is the kind of spec list that anyone on this forum could come up with. Recycle and modify old rumors, make it somewhat plausible and then see if you can get it published.

 

[K-amps]

I'd be a little disappointed if they were only able to add 3mp to the camera after 3 years.

Even though I don't think I want massive amounts of more mp, the following makes me think otherwise:

1) 2 days back I was casually shooting for a sporting practice and people were admiring the 70-300L, when someone asked me "How many Mp does your 5D have"... now before I could explain to this chap how mp's matter or not, the whole group went silent and was looking at me. This included a Guy with a 16mp PS... so it was kind of awkward explaining that I only had 12.7mps... cause he looked away unimpressed when I told him... err 12.7mp.. cause he did not want to listen how the 5D was better than the 16mp P&S.

2) I have recently taken a few pics of the full moon (moon HDR) and need to crop aggressively to get some detail since my 300mm on a FF can't do a whole lot in terms of zoom, and as cropping 12.7mp has it's limitations. Same with Macro... I think more mp's would be welcome as long as I can shoot at user selectable sRAWs / crops.

 

[fred_jb]

The 5D III spec seems plausible to me as it is almost exactly what is expected of the Nikon D700 replacement.

Although I'm pretty happy with my 5D II, an increase to 6fps would make me want to upgrade as this turns the camera into much more of an all-rounder, and therefore more competitive with the current Nikon D700 and more importantly with the expected D800.

I've no doubt that 6fp is achievable given the info on Digic 5 which has come with the S100 compact release.

Fred

 

[Picsfor]

Mmmmm, time to add my two penneth worth.

5D3 having better iso range than a 1Ds4? You mean like the 5D2 having a better iso range than the 1Ds3, by a country mile.
More mo's has been suggested - as an owner of 2x 5D2's I can assure you that by and large 21mp FF sensor is adequate for just about everything.
7D focusing really would be welcome. Any one who owns or has used a 5D or 5D2 will tell you the focusing is the achilles heel of these cameras.
6fp would really kill off the Nikon competition because it would make the camera a very good all rounder. Had 6.5fps on my 40D and found it more than adequate for most situations.

MP's on 1Ds4 sound just too high. A canon tech person told me earlier this year that Canon would be working to achieve a 50mp FF sensor in the future with considerably greater iso levels than currently available and a much better dynamic range that almost mats he's the human eye. The indications were that this was not a next generation goal...

For what you could put in a 1D body with newer technology is any ones guess...

 

[amarlez]

MP's on 1Ds4 sound just too high. A canon tech person told me earlier this year that Canon would be working to achieve a 50mp FF sensor in the future with considerably greater iso levels than currently available and a much better dynamic range that almost mats he's the human eye. The indications were that this was not a next generation goal...

But (if my math is right...) a 54 MP square sensor would give you 30 MP if you cropped it vertical or horizontal. That doesn't sound so unrealistic. It hasn't been talked about for a while, but with all the talk there was a couple months ago about different frame rates associated with selectable crop modes, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon were planning an approach where you had more control over which pixels on a sensor you could pick to be used.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

So why does this rumor get 0.5 when:
1. it is logically consistent unlike many of the rumors which got CR1-CR1.5
2. if they do less than this they will get smashed by Nikon (is 1 series AF crazy? is 2 more stops DR crazy? is 6.3 fps crazy? Nikon already has that in a small FF for years and all they need to add is video and double the MP and who doesn't think they will for the D800?)

with the speed of Digic V this could have full sensor scaled down video for true $$$$$ Hollywood top digital movie camera quality (barring worse in cam compression and probably only 8bits per channel video).

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

It sounds good, but so good I'm a bit suspicious, more "wish list" like then "reality"...or at least it's too good and if I thought it were real I'd probably get disappointed when it isn't

JSP

yeah the only thing that makes on worry about it is that it actually makes perfect sense
and it's the same specs a few of us have been tossing around for 2-3 years hoping to Canon's notice, almost to the T.

but hopefully it's not someone just packaging those nice wish lists sensibly and it's real

 

[etto72]

those specs make a lot of sense to me!

The only way to have both camera on the market without killing the sale of the flagship
is using different sensor!

First of all because you don't want again give to the 5D a poor AF !! enough of that!!!
than,if you want to keep the great high iso movie profile that the 5D had,you can't pack to many mp on the sensor and I don't think that after 4 years a 3 or 10mp increase will push the Ds mk II owner to update

I don't see 54mp bee to high for our day sensor tech
2 years old 7D sensor on a full camera will give about 46mp! and that sensor perform really well at iso 3200 and very decently at iso 6400

The only think i can't believe is that in the Dlsr 9000$ flagship Canon can't add Mpeg codec 4 2 2 !!!!
....but of corse in the other hand the 5D is the movie flagship Dslr


I just hope its true!!
;D ;D

MP's on 1Ds4 sound just too high. A canon tech person told me earlier this year that Canon would be working to achieve a 50mp FF sensor in the future with considerably greater iso levels than currently available and a much better dynamic range that almost mats he's the human eye. The indications were that this was not a next generation goal...

But (if my math is right...) a 54 MP square sensor would give you 30 MP if you cropped it vertical or horizontal. That doesn't sound so unrealistic. It hasn't been talked about for a while, but with all the talk there was a couple months ago about different frame rates associated with selectable crop modes, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon were planning an approach where you had more control over which pixels on a sensor you could pick to be used.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Citing the higher sensel count as reason for limited video seems odd. Its a CMOS, you can read only those sensels you really need.
Would be something different if we're talking about digital pixels, those also would allow for much greater DR. But not mentioning such a change in concept?

No, because even dual digic V doesn't sound like it would have the power to perfectly down sample the entire sensor if it were to be more than 36MP and yet the 5D3 at 24MP it just, just might be able to do that in 24fps mode. That would make the video quality insanely better than now (especially if they also improved the compression just a little).

And reading out 54MP so fast might burn out the chip anyway until they find even better cooling and high efficiency or make for poor quality stills with high speed amps or something.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

54Mp? Why I don't believe in this?

P.S. Only medium format cameras (like Hassel) can produce such numbers with more-less acceptable noise. But they are not so fast as they could be and files are huge. I would devide this number by two or so for FF bodies.

It makes perfect sense.
Canon has said they want to take on MF for a long time.
They love market segmentation and but need the the 5D line to become a lot more than a glorified rebel with big sensor and this allows for that and the 1D line is protected by being 10fps at least instead of just 6.3fps.
Who would keep buying an $8000 whatever 1Ds at this point? How do they keep the 5D bodies low spec and not soon get killed by Nikon?

The 1D5 can go FF eventually and be the super fast FF. The 5D can be the super advanced amateur and pro who can manage to live without full on sports 10fps but still get a solid 6.3fps. The 1Ds can be a really slow but super high MP cam with slow reads for more valid bits and tons of MP.

Only thing is it sounds like it all makes too much sense....

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

5D Mark III
* 2 stops better ISO than 5D mk II

Take a look at how DxOMark scores have evolved. I'm calling BS on this. The Nikon D5100 is only about 1 stop better than the aging (2003) Canon Rebel. The (2005) 5D classic still soundly beats any APS-C sensor, and the 5D mark II gained a little less than half a stop.

Maybe they just mean mostly low ISO DR? Heck the Nikon cams ALREADY 2 stops better DR than the 5D2!

 

[DuLt]

Wouldn't it make sense a new digic V line-up as this:

- 1D: Pro camera, tons of mp for studio, 10 fps for sports (in crop mode);
- 5D: Studio camera, low-light photography;
- 7D: Sports camera with 1D AF.

I'm discarding the XXD, XXXD, XXXXD, because they will most likely be a strip down 7D (less thoughness, less buttons, less everything).