1Ds Mark IV Information [CR2]

[Canon Rumors]

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<strong>1Ds Mark IV strikes again

</strong>There is a lot of information floating through my inbox recently. Sorting through what is true, what is a wish and what is old recycled information is what keeps this site from getting boring.</p>
<p>There have been a couple of known sources say there is a lot of  ”misinformation” or “fragmented information” out there.  I dismiss highly detailed spec lists now, they’re just never true.</p>
<p><strong>So why a post about a 1Ds Mark IV?

</strong>Well, new information has come from a few sources and when you put it all together, we may be getting somewhere.</p>
<p>Here is a breakdown of specs and features I have received.</p>
<p><strong>1Ds Mark IV Speculations</strong></p>
<ul style="font-weight: bold;">
<li><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;">30  mp (most likely 32)</span></li>
<li><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;">10fps (I have also heard 8)</span></li>
<li><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;">DIGIC V (No word on number of processors)</span></li>
<li><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;">1D/1Ds Line Merged</span></li>
<li><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;">Announced around the 3rd week of October with an April, 2012 delivery</span></li>
<li><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;">The prototypes are/have been in the hands of Canon ambassadors

</span></li>
</ul>
<p>We did post recently that no DSLR would be coming in 2011, if I go by the above information, that’s still true with the April delivery. There can be grey areas with “announcement” and “delivery” when translating.</p>
<p>The first question I asked about the claimed MP and frame rate was; “Can you write to any cards that fast with 30 mp RAW files or would the camera have a giant buffer?” I haven’t heard back yet. I am also wondering if Canon figured out how to make a full frame sensor do 10fps. When speaking about APS-H in the 1D Mark IV, Canon themselves said they couldn’t recycle a full frame sensor fast enough to do 10fps. Hence Nikon’s 9fps on the D3/D3s.</p>
<p>Again, all of this is very vague and in my experience, vague is better.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

The question of pulling data off the sensor and saving to a card at 10fps has been something that camera manufacturers have likely been working on for years. Now that we have video, pulling 60fps is also expected.

I believe that its just a matter co cost. Schemes to pull data off sensors faster exist, but take more complex processors, and saving data to cards faster takes a faster processor and fast card.

All this ends up costing more and using a lot more power, which means more heat to be dissapated. So, technology improvements is multiple areas is needed. I expect that it is possible to speed up things with newer technology, but the tradeoffs with more cost, more power, and more heat are what will determine the technology we actually see.

Whatever it is, we will see more speed and more MP.

 

[Anastas]

Nikon D3/s are 9fps because process power, not because the mirror. They shoout 11fps on DX mode, but mirror is the same!

It's absolutely possible 1Ds to be 10fps!

 

[EYEONE]

Nikon D3/s are 9fps because process power, not because the mirror. They shoout 11fps on DX mode, but mirror is the same!

It's absolutely possible 1Ds to be 10fps!

Yes, I thought the same thing at first.

But, you have to pull the data off the CMOS sensor, which does take time. The D3s can do 9fps at 12mp and 11fps and even less MP. I would think that at 30+mp we could be reaching some sort of physical limitation of getting the data off the sensor that fast.

How much of that, if any, is dependant on the processor?

 

[NormanBates]

32 Mpix should be around 40MB per RAW image; multiply by 10 fps, and 400 MB/s sounds like really, really a lot, totally out of reach for a CF card and even for an SSD drive

but RAM is not that expensive... a 512MB chip costs about $3 (at least the ones you use in computers); they surely could put a few of those in a $6K body, right?

 

[wockawocka]

32 Mpix should be around 40MB per RAW image; multiply by 10 fps, and 400 MB/s sounds like really, really a lot, totally out of reach for a CF card and even for an SSD drive

but RAM is not that expensive... a 512MB chip costs about $3 (at least the ones you use in computers); they surely could put a few of those in a $6K body, right?

All it needs is 4gb of Ram = 100 image buffer.

 

[Loswr]

A 32 MP FF sensor and 8 fps? Sold!

Agree that there's a world of difference between 9 fps with the 12 MP D3s sensor and similar frame rates with Canon's higher-resolution FF sensor.

 

[spam]

Getting 30+ MP off the sensor at 10 fps isn't a problem, you just need enough parallell lines out. A77 can do 12 frames per second. Not with 30Mp, but pretty close. The challanges are processing and storing. You can avoid the storage problem with a huge buffer, but any buffer will eventually go full if write speed is too slow. One easy way to double write speed is using two cards and alternate between the cards.

Processing should also be able to keep up. Moore's law predict a doubling of transistors in a chip every 18 months. That doesn't quite translate to a doubling of performance, but imaging processors certainly develop at a faster speed than pixel count increase. Algorithms are also improved and a Digic V certainly have a better design than the Digic IV that has been around for several years. However, we also expect more for each generation and Digic V needs to implement CA-removal and better video-downsampling than the current processor so some of the new transistors are bound to be used for new features and not higher speed. Anyway, a 1D-class camera can certainly use 2 or even more Digic chips so I can't really see that processing speed could be an issue.

 

[davidpeter]

I'm going to miss the APS-C format, if the 1D/1Ds lines are being merged. The 24-70 is soooo good with the 1.3x crop...

 

[riogrande100]

Long time visitor first time poster!

As has been pointed out using RAM as its memory buffer and a fast CPU will handle the picture from the sensor to buffer. And if using dual memory card slots it may meant for 10fps the system will write one image to one card and the next to the next. This taking the 400MB down to 200M per second. That is still a lot but by load balancing resources they can perform this task. Dual CPU, Dual RAM and Dual Memory makes it possible.

The most difficult part I believe would be the sensor and if it can succesffuly flush itself for the next image.

 

[Loswr]

I'm going to miss the APS-C format, if the 1D/1Ds lines are being merged. The 24-70 is soooo good with the 1.3x crop...

APS-H, you mean...

 

[infilm]

I assume that if the 1D and !Ds are "merged", that will mean the end of the 1D. Canon will only have a FF pro body.

 

[Shnookums]

Oh yes. This is great news. For me at least. I think 30+ mp is possible with 8-10 fps. If not, you could keep the file smaller to get more fps. The 5DII does 60fps using it's entire sensor at 720p. So Canon knows how the bind pixel to get higher fps.

When my 1DII was announced, no one believed it would be possible to get 8mp at 8fps. Canon did it anyway.

Let's wait and see, but I'm happy

 

[RichFisher]

I assume that if the 1D and !Ds are "merged", that will mean the end of the 1D. Canon will only have a FF pro body.

Hope that the new camera will be priced at 1D M4 introduction level ($5,000 US), not the 1Ds M3 level ($8,000 US). That is a big difference - especially if you buy 2.

 

[Loswr]

I assume that if the 1D and !Ds are "merged", that will mean the end of the 1D. Canon will only have a FF pro body.

True, if true. A 32 MP sensor running in an 'APS-H mode' for the FoV benefit of a cropped sensor would yield a 19 MP image, so that still 'improves' (as Canon seems to define it, i.e. more MPs) on the 1D IV's 16 MP sensor.

Canon could certainly tie a frame rate to a crop mode, with 10 fps in crop mode (at 19 MP, and we know dual Digic IV can handle 18 MP at 8 fps, so should be no problem for Digic V especially dual), and a lower frame rate in FF mode.

Hope that the new camera will be priced at 1D M4 introduction level ($5,000 US), not the 1Ds M3 level ($8,000 US).

A vain hope. If they merge them, I'd expect at least 1Ds MkIII pricing.

Frankly, I don't seem them merging the lines any time soon - they'll need to bring out something to sit in the large gap from $2500 to $8000.

 

[elusive1]

October announcement with an April release? That's a 6 month gap. What happened to this statement a few days ago?

"it was also flatly said that “Canon will announce a new camera when it’s done, and not a minute before”. Canon has no desire to announce a camera and it not be available for 2-3 months."

I'd be happy with a 2 month gap, but 6 months? Really bad.

I think nobody, including Canon as it's starting to seem, has any idea when they're going to release anything. I think Digic V is giving them a lot of problems, and that's probably why the crazy secrecy to string people along.

 

[bornshooter]

im beginning to wonder about the credibility of your contacts

 

[Stone]

yeah, I don't expect this to be an affordable body. If they merge, it's got to have improved IQ as compared to the 1DsIII and improved performance as compared to the 1DIV. If true, I'll bet Canon continues selling the 1DIV for a while after this body is released. I can't see it being any cheaper than 6-7K. 6months is a long wait, glad I just ordered a 7D so I can wait for those prices to come down a bit.

 

[Lawliet]

You always can increase the number of readout channels, basically structuring the sensor like multiple adjoined independent units.

As for the mechanical components: using at least one electronic curtain would make things easier, and with improvements very sensible for video that might come for free.

Those RAWs would be in the 45-50MB ballpark. A good CFast card could store 3 per second, with CF or SD topping out at 2/s at best. Even dual slots wouldn't make it a viable substitute for buffer space. Reading only a fraction of the sensor like the D2x did would help, or just using 2-4GB of RAM for really nice buffer depths.

Wouldn't a unified 1D-Line make some room for a body in the 3,5k range, somewhat lower resolution and speed, but without feeling crippled? ;D

 

[whistlerdan]

I don't see what they have to gain by announcing a camera 6 or 7 months ahead of it's shipping date. Wouldn't that be unprecedented ?