60D better sensor than the 7D?

[wuschba]

A German technical magazin announces the 60D with the words, that the sensor is in size and pixels like the one for the 7D, but was "slightly reengineered to have a better sensitivity to light".

Would this mean the 60D gets a better sensor than the 7D?

 

[Peerke]

Don't you think that Canon would have given that info when they announced it?

By the way, the 6400 ISO images of the 60D on dpreview are not bad at all in my opinion. Not that I will buy one .

 

[wuschba]

Well I was wondering as well from which source this information could come... Therefore my Q here.

 

[Edwin Herdman]

Email the people who put out that information, that's the best way you'll find out.

I'll wait until DP Review looks at the camera in-depth...I also would check http://www.dxomark.com to see how it ranks. Currently all the 18mp cameras with the sensor (or a similar one...) are at 66 points on DxO (7D, T2i preproduction and production models).

 

[Rocky]

Don't you think that Canon would have given that info when they announced it?

By the way, the 6400 ISO images of the 60D on dpreview are not bad at all in my opinion. Not that I will buy one .

Even if it is better, Canon will never admit it. Otherwise they cannot justify the premium price of 7D. Would you buy a 7D if the 60D will give you a better picture???

 

[Peerke]

No, I won't buy a 60D and probably not a 7D. My 40D suits me well. I don't have to make a living with the camera, so I don't need the latest technology.

Maybe one day, when the 5dIII is out and the price of the 5dII is to my liking, I will buy a second hand 5dII and a wide angle for my landscape shooting, but only when I feel that I improved enough to deserve the quality of the 5dII :.

 

[Rocky]

No, I won't buy a 60D and probably not a 7D. My 40D suits me well. I don't have to make a living with the camera, so I don't need the latest technology.

Maybe one day, when the 5dIII is out and the price of the 5dII is to my liking, I will buy a second hand 5dII and a wide angle for my landscape shooting, but only when I feel that I improved enough to deserve the quality of the 5dII :.

I am in the same situation as you. I am trying to hang on my 40D as long as I can. I have check the focus matching of my 17-40 with the 40D, It is a perfect match. Also the 35-135 is the same perfect match. So I do not need the Micro adjustment yet.

 

[Edwin Herdman]

If you don't have money for a new camera, by all means keep the 40D until it breaks. I want to ditch the T1i because it doesn't perform well in many situations for me, so I feel ready to "step up" to the next level (faster FPS, better low-light, etc.) For landscapes (admittedly still the majority of what I shoot) the T1i (for example) is still just fine.

 

[unexposure]

A German technical magazin announces the 60D with the words, that the sensor is in size and pixels like the one for the 7D, but was "slightly reengineered to have a better sensitivity to light".

Would this mean the 60D gets a better sensor than the 7D?

Are you referring to http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Canonenschlag-EOS-60D-und-vier-neue-EF-Objektive-1066140.html?

I'm gonna drop an e-mail to heise.de asking where they got the info from.

 

[Peerke]

Quote from: wuschba on September 02, 2010, 08:03:55 PM
A German technical magazin announces the 60D with the words, that the sensor is in size and pixels like the one for the 7D, but was "slightly reengineered to have a better sensitivity to light".

Would this mean the 60D gets a better sensor than the 7D?
Are you referring to http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Canonenschlag-EOS-60D-und-vier-neue-EF-Objektive-1066140.html?

I'm gonna drop an e-mail to heise.de asking where they got the info from.

The link indeed mentions the slightly improved technology on the 60D sensor. Hopefully you will get an answer and share it with us. Again, not that I will be buying the 60D, but I'm just curious.

If you don't have money for a new camera, by all means keep the 40D until it breaks. I want to ditch the T1i because it doesn't perform well in many situations for me, so I feel ready to "step up" to the next level (faster FPS, better low-light, etc.) For landscapes (admittedly still the majority of what I shoot) the T1i (for example) is still just fine.

It is not the money that keeps me away from a more expensive and technologically advanced camera. My 40D is working fine for me with the glass I have (EF S 10-22, EF S 17-55 2.8, EF 70-200 4.0, EF 400 5.6, Sigma 150 mm macro) and the skills I have as a photographer. I'm still learning a lot. I'm just affraid that a 7D or 5DII is a complete waste of money if one has the skill I have now. It doesn't make sence to buy a $10,000.- mountain bike if you have to learn to ride a bike, does it?

OK, you feel your T1i lets you down, reason enough for you to invest in more advanced equipment. A pitty that you immidiatly conclude that people who won't spend money are poor gready bast....

 

[Edwin Herdman]

Man, people are quick to take things the wrong way. You two (Rocky and Peerke) are imagining things. If I had said "lots of people are happy with their cameras, which is fine by me (and none of my business), but for my purposes, the T1i falls short sometimes" you wouldn't have read into what I wrote. I hope your equipment continues to serve you well for a long time...I can see where you're imagining that I am wishing ill, but that strikes me as more than a little stretch.

I would also like to be able to do everything with just one camera, forever, but feature creep and simple technological advancement means that sometimes the new cameras promise to perform a lot better for me than older models. Low light especially (though for the best low-light performance and other features I'd prefer a 1D(s) Mark IV...obviously, money prevents this).

 

[unexposure]

hey gusy! your offtopic. ;-)

I got a response from heise, saying the journalist having wrote the article is currently unavaible due to his presence at the ifa. tuesday he'll be back and i should call him (gave me the number).

so info about whether there is really somethin new in 60D-sensor that makes it better than 7D or not, will be available tuesday pm (GMT).

 

[Edwin Herdman]

If you don't have money for a new camera, by all means keep the 40D until it breaks.

Edwin, This is your exact word. I am not imagining it or stretching it. You just will not admit that you have make a mistake and said something wrong. Even worst, you are accusing me that I am imagining and stretching it. A man should be able to admit his mistake and not accusing others. Otherwise he is not qualified to be a man.

I don't know where you get off saying that you know what I meant to say better than I did. I think "a man" would have the guts to admit that they were wrong, and not insist that their own mistaken reading counts for more than the intention. I've already done my part and admitted that I understand why you'd think that I meant something mean-spirited after reading my first post, but for you to insist my explanation isn't good enough means the problem now is solely yours. Again...I didn't mean anything negative, so you need to leave it alone.

I agree with unexposure, it's time to move back to the original topic!

@ unexposure:

I wonder if they could possibly mean the autofocus-sensor, which has the new cross-type sensor which is reportedly "extra sensitive" at f/2.8.

 

[MintMark]

I have read in a couple of places that the 60D uses the same low pass filter as the 7D, so maybe the "slightly re-engineered" quote is with respect to the 550D? We'll find out in the detailed reviews...

 

[Rocky]

I have read in a couple of places that the 60D uses the same low pass filter as the 7D, so maybe the "slightly re-engineered" quote is with respect to the 550D? We'll find out in the detailed reviews...

The CMOS sensor of 7D is of 8 channel readout while the 60D is of 4 channel readout. Therefore the circuitry part of both sensors are not identical.

 

[unexposure]

I just called the journalist at heise. He told me, the info about the 60D-sensor came out of a conversation with the canon-product manager.
He said he was told, that the 60D uses a reengineered 7D Sensor to achieve a better ISO-noise-ratio, but nothing concrete about how it works.

so I guess we'll have to wait for some compareable sample-pics to see what they did at canon.

 

[ELK]

I just called the journalist at heise. He told me, the info about the 60D-sensor came out of a conversation with the canon-product manager.
He said he was told, that the 60D uses a reengineered 7D Sensor to achieve a better ISO-noise-ratio, but nothing concrete about how it works.

so I guess we'll have to wait for some compareable sample-pics to see what they did at canon.

Thanks for your efforts!

 

[wuschba]

Year thanks very much. If it's true that would give one point plus for the 60D in my eyes compared to the 7D.

 

[Rocky]

I just called the journalist at heise. He told me, the info about the 60D-sensor came out of a conversation with the canon-product manager.
He said he was told, that the 60D uses a reengineered 7D Sensor to achieve a better ISO-noise-ratio, but nothing concrete about how it works.

so I guess we'll have to wait for some compareable sample-pics to see what they did at canon.

Thanks, I hope it is true. However, I feel a little bit strange about it. Why Canon will reengineering the 7D sensor to use on a lower body and ends up wityh a better picture than the 7D?? It will take away the sales from the 7D. Unless Canon is using 60D as a beta test site. So I agree with you that we should wait and see a comparision test between the 60D and the 7D.

 

[unexposure]

I guess, one of the "problems" of 7D regarding IQ are the wires. As it uses 8channel Readout, rather than 4channel, this might cause some more signal noise. I now have read several times, that 550D-Sensor is a little bit better in the higher ISO-modes than 7D, but overall they're not so much different.
If that's true, that t2i-sensor delivers a better iso-performance than 7d, I'd say this: "As you'll see below, the engineers have managed to eke out just a bit more crispness and detail in the Canon 60D than in its already-excellent predecessor." is real promising.

Read the whole Review here: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E60D/E60DA.HTM
This includes some hi-res pics in serveral iso-settings from the same location/perspective taken by 60D and rebel t2i - even available as raw.

My first thought was: Pretty nice. Starting at 1600 a slight but noticeable difference shows up.
Wished they had included some pics shot with 7d, too. :-(