A BSI APS-C EOS R camera is coming in the second half of 2022 [CR2]

bergstrom

Photographer
Feb 23, 2015
307
183
Why would Canon want to put priority in a camera that only "some" are waiting to buy?

Besides, they already have ONE budget FF (RP) camera. As well as at most ONLY one RF in each price/category range and NO crop RF body.

It's become a ME ME ME and ME First day of age :)

an FF with worst battery ever. THIS new one SHOULD be what the RP SHOULD have been.
 

Joaquim

EOS M50
Aug 20, 2019
29
21
Dubai
JoaquimGonsalves.com
Aah, finally something I want to hear. Eagerly awaiting the R7 and the XH2. And then I will look forward to Sigma finally making mirrorless versions of the 1.8 twins. That 50-100 so needs a proper non focus breathing update and a few pounds of weight lost too.
 

mdcmdcmdc

7Dii, M5, 100 (film), α6400
CR Pro
Sep 4, 2020
125
163
A R7 with similar features to R6 but faster rolling shutter, and a higher pixel BSI density would cannibalise their R6 if it was priced lower than the R6.
I respectfully disagree. Maybe I'm biased from spending too much time in internet photography forums, but at least around here, it seems that most people arguing for a high-end APS-C body want that sensor size and pixel density for specific reasons. People who buy FF bodies have different needs and want the features of a FF sensor. The people who don't care about sensor/pixel size either way are likely to be long-time M users who are looking to upgrade, and they'll be equally turned off by an APS-C body at $2000 as an R6 at $2600. That's a market for the low-cost $800 R body, whether that's APS-C or FF.
 

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
74
45
I'd love to see a 500m f/1.8 lens. A bit heavy for me though. And I wonder what the mfd of a 500m lens would be? Perfect for a bird 1km away, I guess.
Thanks Alan, typo corrected, but it made for some humour! With a lens of those specifications, you'll never hear another birder even complain about high ISO noisy images in low light. Heck, you can probably photograph owls under moonlight with one of those at ISO 200! ;)
 

maulanawale

EOS M6 Mark II
May 25, 2021
68
132
Thanks Alan, typo corrected, but it made for some humour! With a lens of those specifications, you'll never hear another birder even complain about high ISO noisy images in low light. Heck, you can probably photograph owls under moonlight with one of those at ISO 200! ;)
It'd be amazing for BIF's, bats in flight :LOL:
 
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LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
74
45
I respectfully disagree. Maybe I'm biased from spending too much time in internet photography forums, but at least around here, it seems that most people arguing for a high-end APS-C body want that sensor size and pixel density for specific reasons. People who buy FF bodies have different needs and want the features of a FF sensor. The people who don't care about sensor/pixel size either way are likely to be long-time M users who are looking to upgrade, and they'll be equally turned off by an APS-C body at $2000 as an R6 at $2600. That's a market for the low-cost $800 R body, whether that's APS-C or FF.
Good point, many beginner photographers buy Rebel crop sensor DSLRs and M-series mirrorless, and I'm guessing there's way more of them than specialised 7D photographers. They definitely will not pay R6 prices, and most couldn't care about specs and features beyond what they need for their purpose. The M50 II is really big with the budget vlogger crowd for example because it's only USD $700 with a kit lens or $900 for a full vlogging kit.

Canon uses APSC sensors in both low-end budget camera bodies, midrange crop sensor bodies such as the 80D and 90D, as well as specialist high-end bodies such as the 7D series. Were talking about at least THREE market sectors here!

This raises the question, if there is a new RF mount APSC camera, which portion of the market will it cater to, and could there be more than one camera body to intentionally segment the market and offer progressively higher specs and build quality?

Lots of unanswered questions to intentionally get the market hyped up before product release. It appears to work very well! :)
 
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Foxdude

EOS M6 Mark II
Aug 14, 2014
88
13
It is a shame, because if you know anyone looking for a really compact system with excellent image quality, then the M system is still (in my opinion) by far the best. The lenses are very good quality for the price. Aside from a big telephoto zoom, it has all the lenses the target market would ever need. (and,come to think of it, the target market almost certainly does not need a bigger zoom). So, yes, it is a shame that you wouldn't recommend EF-M to someone looking for a small compact system due to a rumor that does nothing to indicate that the M system is "dead in the water."
You read my mind.
 
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AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
8,683
11,692
I use APS-C for everything and for what I do it's all I need, I've got the Canon EF-S 10-22mm and the Samyang 16mm f/2 for astro photography, the Canon EF-S 18-200mm for walking around and the EF 70-300mm L for birding and butterflies. For someone doing this as a hobby like myself APS-C bodies and wide angle lenses are more cost effective then Full Frame.

For those that are saying the R5 can crop to 17MP yes that's good if you can afford it but lots of people can't afford or are not willing to pay for it when they could get an APS-C that's cheaper and the ability to use smaller lenses with the same or similar equivalent focal length. I personally prefer a 90D and 70-300mm L over the R6 and a 100-500mm L based on the significant price difference, and with APS-C that 300mm is equivalent to 480mm.
Because of the much higher pixel density of the 90D over the R6, 300mm on the 90D could be up to 600mm equivalent on the R6 in terms of resolution or reach, depending on circumstances, although 480mm in terms of field of view.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
25,813
4,236
Canon uses APSC sensors in both low-end budget camera bodies, midrange crop sensor bodies such as the 80D and 90D, as well as specialist high-end bodies such as the 7D series. Were talking about at least THREE market sectors here!

They had three sectors. The 7-series launched in 2009 and was updated only once, in 2014. To me, that and the relatively bigger bump from the 80D to the 90D suggests that Canon really only saw two viable sectors there.
 
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AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
8,683
11,692
You gain higher pixel density , if this is 30mp that's nearly double the R5 cropped 17mp.
Pixel density is the number of pixels per length, not area: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_density; https://www.definitions.net/definition/pixel+density etc etc. A 30 Mpx APS-C sensor has only a 33% greater pixel density than a 17 Mpx sensor. It's not a pedantic distinction, it is crucial for telling you how much longer a telephoto lens you need to get similar reach (resolution). If the pixel density was double, you would need a 600mm lens on the 17 Mpx sensor to give about the same resolution as a 300mm on the 30 Mpx, but with a 33% difference only an approximately 400mm lens on the 17 Mpx is needed.
 

reefroamer

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Jun 21, 2014
109
133
Haven't Canon said they won't be launching any RF-S lenses though? If so, what RF lens will give a superwide angle on an APS-C R?
I’m probably missing something obvious with this: Wouldn’t an EF-S 10-22, with an EF-RF lens adapter, work just as effectively on a crop-sensor R body as it does, without adapter, on the crop-sensor EF bodies (ie, 7D, 90D, Rebel Bodies)? With the adapter, I can fit EF-S lenses to my R6, and get a cropped image. On a crop-sensor R body, would the EF-S lens plus adapter actually fill the (smaller) sensor? If so, users could use existing EF-S lenses for ultra-wide needs on a crop R body. No? The EF-S lenses would fit the full-frame EF Mount bodies due to mechanical/flange limitations, but this would not be the case with adapter on the R Mount. Where am I wrong here?
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jul 21, 2010
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I’m probably missing something obvious with this: Wouldn’t an EF-S 10-22, with an EF-RF lens adapter, work just as effectively on a crop-sensor R body as it does, without adapter, on the crop-sensor EF bodies (ie, 7D, 90D, Rebel Bodies)? With the adapter, I can fit EF-S lenses to my R6, and get a cropped image. On a crop-sensor R body, would the EF-S lens plus adapter actually fill the (smaller) sensor? If so, users could use existing EF-S lenses for ultra-wide needs on a crop R body. No? The EF-S lenses would fit the full-frame EF Mount bodies due to mechanical/flange limitations, but this would not be the case with adapter on the R Mount. Where am I wrong here?
You’re correct, I suspect the argument is that there should be native lenses for RF. if Canon does release and APS-C RF body, no doubt they will want to sell lenses alongside of it. And charge a premium even at the low end for those who want the native mount.

The EF 50/1.8 costs $125, the RF 50/1.8 costs $200.

Particularly if the camera is aimed at the entry level (APS-C usually being cheaper), people upgrading from an M may not want to adapt EF/-S lenses, especially if they have to buy those lenses new and also the adapter.
 

Traveler

EOS R6
Oct 6, 2019
118
151
You only get more 'reach' if the pixel size is smaller on the APS-C. If Canon would reuse the R3 sensor technology, you'd get a 10MP APS-C sensor and no extra reach compared to the R3 and R5.
Why would they do that? I guess they’ll develop a new higher density APSC sensor (as they always did) and perhaps reuse it in the next iterations of M body and perhaps a 90D successor if there is still demand for APSC DSLR.
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
10,497
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And even if it were "dead in the water" what would that actually mean?
It would mean the vessel needs to display;
(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen;
(ii) two balls or similar shapes in a vertical line where they can best be seen;
 
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MoonMadness

EOS M50
May 24, 2021
34
48
an FF with worst battery ever. THIS new one SHOULD be what the RP SHOULD have been.
Oh, my bad. Canon should update the RP with an RPm2 ASAP, just because of the battery. And just for you. Wait a minute, you can't buy additional batteries for it without the body? Wait another minute, I thought the M50 battery was the worst battery ever? Same battery for the updated M50m2. Guessing the RPm2 won't change either.