A Canon Speedlite EL-10 is coming in 2021 [CR2]

shawn

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 28, 2019
66
67
The Westcott's are just rebranded Jinbei flashes.

That is the rumor but in actual fact they're a little different. Whether Jinbei has decided to take what they made with Westcott and "rebrand" it under their own or other brands is probably either a typical China thing or a part of the agreement that Westcott has with Jinbei regarding these flashes.

Take a look at the following from a post made by a Westcott rep on diyphotography.net:

Hey, John! Here’s a little more information to clarify the differences between the FJ400 and Jinbei’s HD400. The FJ400 has a similar body, with very updated features. We worked tirelessly for months with an established engineering team to fine-tune the internal elements so we could offer a flash unit that was up to our standards.

• The FJ400 has more flashes per charge (480+ compared to Jinbei’s 400).

• The FJ400 can be charged while using (AC/DC capabilities) with no additional adapters needed.

• The FJ400 has a faster recycling time (0.9 seconds at full power compared to Jinbei’s 1.6 seconds).

• The FJ400 has a daylight-balanced 20w LED modeling lamp (compared to Jinbei’s15w 3000k lamp).

• The FJ400 has optimized flash tube positioning (the tube placement is customized to output an even spread of light in modifiers).

• The FJ400 offers ± 150k in color consistency over the entire power range (levels 1-9). Jinbei market’s over “normal range” which appears to be 1/1-1/32 power (levels 4-9).

• The FJ400 features an umbrella tensioner/screw mechanism for quick yet solid mounting of umbrellas and umbrella-style modifiers (including the Westcott 7’ umbrellas).

• The FJ400 receives strict Westcott Quality Control.

• The FJ400 is backed by Westcott’s USA-based service and support.

We noticed some incorrect information in your specs sheet here that we'd also like to clarify...

• The FJ400’s lithium polymer battery provides has 480+ full power flashes on a single charge (not 400).

• The is an audible and adjustable Flash Ready Beep Indicator as well as a visual indicator on the test button.

BTW, this isn't the first time in history that electronics have shared the same internals. I was looking into lenses from ARRI recently to see how special they really are, fact is they're made with glass from Japan or Germany. End of the day a lens is only as good as it's glass so maybe you're better off buying a Canon lens and saving $40,000. And yet people still buy ARRI, why? Because it is just a little bit better.

Hope that makes sense?
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jan 29, 2011
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That is the rumor but in actual fact they're a little different. Whether Jinbei has decided to take what they made with Westcott and "rebrand" it under their own or other brands is probably either a typical China thing or a part of the agreement that Westcott has with Jinbei regarding these flashes.

Take a look at the following from a post made by a Westcott rep on diyphotography.net:



BTW, this isn't the first time in history that electronics have shared the same internals. I was looking into lenses from ARRI recently to see how special they really are, fact is they're made with glass from Japan or Germany. End of the day a lens is only as good as it's glass so maybe you're better off buying a Canon lens and saving $40,000. And yet people still buy ARRI, why? Because it is just a little bit better.

Hope that makes sense?
Compare the FJ400 to the HD-400 TTL Pro and they are, essentially, identical.
I don’t care that it is a rebrand, but it isn’t like Westcott have ‘just come out with’ anything that wasn’t available before.

As to your second point, I don’t understand what rebranding has to do with ARRI having glass made in Germany or Japan, companies will source their specialist components to wherever can manufacture them to the required specifications at the best value.

Japanese Steel Works is the only company in the world that can make weldless nuclear reactor pressure vessels, having something made in Japan or Germany are equal signs of quality.
 
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shawn

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 28, 2019
66
67
Compare the FJ400 to the HD-400 TTL Pro and they are, essentially, identical.
I don’t care that it is a rebrand, but it isn’t like Westcott have ‘just come out with’ anything that wasn’t available before.

As to your second point, I don’t understand what rebranding has to do with ARRI having glass made in Germany or Japan, companies will source their specialist components to wherever can manufacture them to the required specifications at the best value.

Japanese Steel Works is the only company in the world that can make weldless nuclear reactor pressure vessels, having something made in Japan or Germany are equal signs of quality.

Jinbei could be rebranding the Westcott specced product. You assume otherwise, but you could be wrong.

ARRI doesn't make lenses or design them. It's all built to their specifications by foreign (to them) companies. I hope that makes sense to you as to how Westcott could come out with this strobe and still consider it "theirs". (Really hoping it clicks.)
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jan 29, 2011
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Jinbei could be rebranding the Westcott specced product. You assume otherwise, but you could be wrong.

ARRI doesn't make lenses or design them. It's all built to their specifications by foreign (to them) companies. I hope that makes sense to you as to how Westcott could come out with this strobe and still consider it "theirs". (Really hoping it clicks.)
No it doesn’t. There is no equivalence between an ARRI/Zeiss (they are both German) or Fujinon partnership and a previously available Jinbei product now appearing with a Westcott label on it.

There is nothing inherently wrong about Adorama rebranding Godox products, they offer vastly improved warranty and backup, but that is in no way comparable to the way ARRI/Zeiss Master series lenses are designed, manufactured, marketed, or provided. Neither are Jinbei flashes with a Westcott badge on them.
 

shawn

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 28, 2019
66
67
Yeh, no that is not what I meant.

Apple design iPhones, Foxconn manufacture them, they are Apple products and are not available anywhere else with a different label on them, same with the ARRI/Zeiss products.

As for the ‘Westcott flash‘, it was already available without Westcott input as a Jinbei product, and it still is, same as Godox and Flashpoint. Westcott have rebadged a Jinbei flash the same way Adorama/Flashpoint do with Godox, there is nothing inherently wrong in doing that. But that is nothing like ARRI collaborating with one of the best names in lenses on a project that brings a unique product not available anywhere else.

Anybody that can’t acknowledge that without illustrating substantive differences in the two products, or at the very least a supportive timeline, is either obtuse, doesn’t understand English, or is a shill. And Westcott have very aggressively tried to control the comments across the internet about these flashes for some obscure reason all the while failing to provide details of any substantive differences or timeline.

If you say so.
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jan 29, 2011
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If you say so.
What have I said that isn’t a verifiable fact?

But thanks for pointing out the list of substantive differences between the Jinbei and Westcott and the release timeline that supports your position, oh, you didn't? Because you can't.
 
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privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jan 29, 2011
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Even if the flash was a straight up rebrand with no changes (it is not), the fact that you can't even buy the Jinbei version in America makes the statement that the Westcott is a "rebrand" a strawman argument. If you want the flash you have to buy the Westcott, end of story. Stating that it is a rebrand is meaningless.

Additionally, the fact that Jinbei does not sell their product in America, still the worlds largest economy, implies that they can't because they would be sued if they did.

In actual fact a great many Chinese companies cannot sell their product in America because they would be sued and kicked out in an instant. (Because they're either using stolen or shared designs)

Hope that makes sense????
You can buy the Jinbei flash in the USA via several European distributors, if that is what you wanted to do. But you are simply moving the goalposts on what you consider a rebrand, that is a true strawman! Stating it is a rebrand is not pointless, it is a fact, besides, who said I am in the USA? How many people who look at this forum are not? If I live in Europe am I better off getting a Westcott or a Jinbei? What are the differences (none)?

But you keep saying you “know” it isn’t a rebrand, tell us, what do you ‘know’? Because so far nothing that has been said by anybody is pointing to the fact it is nothing more that a direct rebrand. Which as I keep saying, there is nothing Intrinsically wrong with it just isn’t the rebranders invention, which is what Westcott keep implying.
 

shawn

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 28, 2019
66
67
You can buy the Jinbei flash in the USA via several European distributors, if that is what you wanted to do. But you are simply moving the goalposts on what you consider a rebrand, that is a true strawman! Stating it is a rebrand is not pointless, it is a fact, besides, who said I am in the USA? How many people who look at this forum are not? If I live in Europe am I better off getting a Westcott or a Jinbei? What are the differences (none)?

But you keep saying you “know” it isn’t a rebrand, tell us, what do you ‘know’? Because so far nothing that has been said by anybody is pointing to the fact it is nothing more that a direct rebrand. Which as I keep saying, there is nothing Intrinsically wrong with it just isn’t the rebranders invention, which is what Westcott keep implying.

Now your claiming that shopping in a European store is buying in the usa?? Lol, ****** off dude.
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jan 29, 2011
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Now your claiming that shopping in a European store is buying in the usa?? Lol, —— off dude.
And you still can’t list a substantive difference between the previously available JInbei HD-400 TTL Pro and the newly released Westcott FJ-400, nor illustrate a timeline that shows Westcott had any involvement in the development of ‘their’ flash past the label on it.

Why do you refuse to answer the substantive question? What ‘secret’ information do you know? What are the differences between the previously available Jinbei HD-400 TTL Pro and the Westcott FJ-400?
 

shawn

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 28, 2019
66
67
And you still can’t list a substantive difference between the previously available JInbei HD-400 TTL Pro and the newly released Westcott FJ-400, nor illustrate a timeline that shows Westcott had any involvement in the development of ‘their’ flash past the label on it.

Why do you refuse to answer the substantive question? What ‘secret’ information do you know? What are the differences between the previously available Jinbei HD-400 TTL Pro and the Westcott FJ-400?

If it is a secret, then a secret it must remain.
 

Cyborx

EOS 90D
Feb 3, 2019
150
147
Canon and Pricing, they just don't go very well together... at least their astronomic pricing kept me -a professional photographer- from buying new gear for over 8(!) years.
And please, don't give me all sorts of cr*p saying that my gear needs updating. Sure, it would be nice to have two R5 bodies, all RF lenses and this insanely priced flash head.
But Canon just doesn't treat me right, by charging these sick prices... so I wait and wait... for what, I don't know, but I just don't grant them my money.
 

shawn

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 28, 2019
66
67
Canon and Pricing, they just don't go very well together... at least their astronomic pricing kept me -a professional photographer- from buying new gear for over 8(!) years.
And please, don't give me all sorts of cr*p saying that my gear needs updating. Sure, it would be nice to have two R5 bodies, all RF lenses and this insanely priced flash head.
But Canon just doesn't treat me right, by charging these sick prices... so I wait and wait... for what, I don't know, but I just don't grant them my money.

Here's my thoughts on the EL-1 flash head. Yes it is very, very good. But 170 flashes in a row as the limit? It's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility to hit that, not at all. I find that limit to be semi-professional at best. So I have to agree with you on this flash, it is overpriced for what is on offer.

On the other hand the R5 and RF glass... not the same story, thankfully. R5 is an amazing camera. And several RF lenses are modern legends, they can't be topped. Nobody is going to make a better lens than the RF 85 f/1.2 anytime soon. It makes the Sigma Art 85 look like a sad attempt that ended up as a bad joke. And the RF 28-70 f/2, my personal favorite, is also amazing. Yeah, they cost money, but in a way they're underpriced. Too many photographers with too little experience don't even know how to get the most out of their gear so they don't really know what they're missing in the new Canon system...

IMO the RF 28-70 alone makes the RF system. It's like having the Infinity Gauntlet with all the Stones.
 
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Richard Anthony

EOS 90D
Feb 24, 2020
144
173
Here's my thoughts on the EL-1 flash head. Yes it is very, very good. But 170 flashes in a row as the limit? It's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility to hit that, not at all. I find that limit to be semi-professional at best. So I have to agree with you on this flash, it is overpriced for what is on offer.

On the other hand the R5 and RF glass... not the same story, thankfully. R5 is an amazing camera. And several RF lenses are modern legends, they can't be topped. Nobody is going to make a better lens than the RF 85 f/1.2 anytime soon. It makes the Sigma Art 85 look like a sad attempt that ended up as a bad joke. And the RF 28-70 f/2, my personal favorite, is also amazing. Yeah, they cost money, but in a way they're underpriced. Too many photographers with too little experience don't even know how to get the most out of their gear so they don't really know what they're missing in the new Canon system...

IMO the RF 28-70 alone makes the RF system. It's like having the Infinity Gauntlet with all the Stones.
I couldn't agree more the RF28-70 F2 is a superb lens , I don't own the 85 or the 50 1.2 but they are on the wish list .
 
Thanks — on camera I never need a lot of light, which is why we use ex430RT's. The perfect little flash that is an excellent RT transmitter for stand mounted ex600RT's. The only time we used on-camera flash is for casual wedding guest requested grip-n-grins ("hey, can you take my picture?") and a little flash in fine for that. Actually, it's preferred as it doesn't scare guests like a big speedlight would.

I'm not shocked or put off by the cost of Canon flashes. We own 11 of them :)

Since the topic has been floated, I would LOVE a higher-quality rechargeable-battery version of the 430RT. I'm ok if it weighs a little more, but keeps a compact form factor.

As you were.


The problem with the flash is that there are no freebies. If you want a lot of light it won't be small, and a lot of the rest of it is trading generic dime a dozen batteries for expensive proprietary lithium rechargeables.

Canon flashes have always been expensive relative to after market so I don't think any of us should be shocked. However, as many have said, there are good (great) alternatives running the entire price spectrum which we may avail ourselves of, and for that matter there's nothing wrong with buying a cheap used flash.

Regaddjng Yongnuo flashes, they are great knockoffs and I purchased more than my fair share (at least 5). However, they are definitely a cheaper quality, the battery door is crappy, and thry are less durable. I think the Godox / Flashpoint is a better product, but it is not a true knockoff (which is not necessarily a bad thing).

The godox remote transmitter is fantastic.
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
10,536
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With Einsteins, what do you do when you need high speed sync? Love my White Lightning Ultra 1800s, but the Godox AD-600 with HSS led me to put the Ultras on the shelf. The Ultras were pretty revolutionary when they were introduced. The Cyber Commander was a valuable upgrade, but once you get a taste of HSS it is hard to go back.
ND filters or aperture. Mind you I am never trying to shoot wide aperture strong ambient flash images so maybe my use case is atypical. Having said that HSS and Hypersync both cost/lose so much power they are of little interest to me.

There is no magic bullet for flash at this point in time, high output + fast duration = very high cost.
 

danfaz

RSIX
CR Pro
Jul 14, 2015
105
74
www.1fineklick.com
Here's my thoughts on the EL-1 flash head. Yes it is very, very good. But 170 flashes in a row as the limit? It's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility to hit that, not at all. I find that limit to be semi-professional at best. So I have to agree with you on this flash, it is overpriced for what is on offer
I actually took the plunge and bought one. Maybe in the future I'll be kicking myself for not waiting for price to go down, but I have to say the flash has so far impressed me in an event- shooting capacity. I can say without any exaggeration that it easily out performs the 430s and 600s as far as how long I can shoot, and how rapidly. It easily keeps up with 12 fps over and over again. I've had 430s and 600s stop flashing from rapid fire shooting numerous times, but this EL-1 just doesn't stop! Plus, only one battery charge for the entire evening and I was still showing 4 bars on the battery meter.