Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
nbaresejr said:
Here’s the problem.... we all have a list of friends who have abandoned Canon for Sony (or Nikon), yet Canons market share has risen.... that’s the range of anecdotal data....

Another thing that has been proven repeatedly over the years is that we forum members do not represent the typical Canon buyer, and if anything, we are the opposite of typical.

BTW, welcome to the forum!

Thank you! It looks like I joined in 2013 but never posted anything. Just like to read what you are all saying and love the speculation.

Your right, us enthusiasts(me) or pros account for such a small percentage of Canon buyers.

to be honest, I'm now only an enthusiast and I'm perfectly happy with what Canon has done on the EF-M lineup. While there's minor annoyances with the ecosystem, it's more than good enough for my current travel limitations. I would have to spend a considerable amount more for a Fuji or Sony system that would shoot the same.

Would I buy a full frame mirrorless, maybe, maybe not. the lenses will be alot larger than the EF-M lenses, and considerably more expensive.

Just because people are enthusiasts doesn't necessarily mean they are thinking of jumping ship and are not content with what is there already.
 

Treyarnon

EOS 90D
Jan 11, 2018
109
141
Cornwall, UK
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ahsanford said:
The narrative is consistent with Canon either being outperformed or failing to meet spec sheet / feature set expectations. And Canon yawns and keeps on selling.

Don't get me wrong, they 100% could fail to meet everyone's high expectations. I'm just saying that they are legendary for letting you down on specs yet somehow finding people to buy these things. I contend that the line items not on the spec sheet -- native EF compatibility, reputation for quality / reliability, service, ergonomics, interface, etc. -- might be the reason why.

- A

The spec sheet is one thing - but if people see great photographers taking amazing shots with a particular camera - that's the best advert you are going to get. If the best photographers are out there shooting on Canon's - then Canons will sell.
 

CanonFanBoy

Planet FUBAR.
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,729
4,155
A lab in the Ozarks.
Guess I'd better save for a 5D Mark IV DSLR as there may not be a Mark V. I really like my Mark III. Do not like my Olympus much, but Canon may just hit one out of the park... again. Will wait and see.
 

hmatthes

EOS-R, RF and EF Lenses of all types.
All I want is a Canon 5d class camera that uses EF lenses (I have a collection) but handles like my Leica Q -- superb EVF, Superb manual focusing assist, IQ that is uncompromised, bullet-proof construction.
We are photographers, not menu diving computer geeks.
Few of us need more than 5~8 frames per second. Flippy/Tilty: Nice/not necessary
IBIS: Huh, I've been hand holding for 50+ years. And I own nice tripods.
All this new fluff gets in the way of true art. Get over it!
I want my EVF to show me EXACTLY what the sensor sees -- as I chose aperture, exp. comp., white balance...
HUH? No OVF cn do that.
Come on Canon, give me the 5DIV sensor with a EVF as good as the Leica Q or SL... with EF lens support.
then I'm done, and I'm writing my check...
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
i think sept announcements are Not FF but "only" EOS M5 II plus possibly M6 II and EF-M 32/1.4. It will get M5/M6 to current M50 tech: Face/Eye AF, Digic 8 + somewhat better video. not more, typical "Canon bare minimum, underwhelm us"-update, as so often.

Canon FF MILC system - not sure by when Canon gets their act together. they sure will start to feel the heat if the 2 Nikons MILCs plus starting Z-lens lineup (and roadmap!?) are good. Mirrorless 5D4 with same sensor and slightly better EVF and slightly less crippled 4k video will definitely not cut it. otoh IBIS not very likely with Canon, although if Nikon does it ... who knows.

mirrorless lens mount is the most important question/decision. it will determine "envelope of possibilities" for Canon MILC ecosystem for next 30 years. As Canon critical as I am, i don't expect them to fumble this. Canon got it "really right" with EF mount for FF (D)SLRs back in 1987. And FD mount before was really right for non-AF SLRs.

i expect "EF-X" to be "really right" again for mirrorless, allowing for anything from f/0.9 lenses at the "extreme end" *and* very compact, decent, affordable lenses in the most frequently used focal length range (ca. 16-135 mm). extra-wide throat width/clear diameter + moderately short FFD. dont think they will go as short as 16mm only (rumoured Nikon mount). but from lack of surfaced lens patents i don't think launch is "imminent" yet. "smells more" like feb 2019 to me.

re. number of AF points on DP-AF sensors. It does count! Very much so: for selection of where exactly user wants AF system to focus or start tracking. EOS M50 with 99 (143 only with 3 select lenses atm) is much better than previous EOS M implementation (including M5/6) with only 43 AF fields. 392 (Sony) or 400+ (Nikon rumor) would be welcome. DP-AF with "20 million AF points" is very flugfy marketing bla bla. it may help with tracking and face/eye AF, but it dies not help per se, when you want to select a specific, precise point in the frane to (start) focus at.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS R5
Feb 14, 2018
1,246
1,105
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Same as MkIV in all regards but mirrorless? I'm not buying it. I'll wait for the next version. I've already got MkIV and mirrorlessness isn't crucial for me. Silent shutter is a plus but again not too crucial.

Same as MkIV but with EVF, tilt screen, higher DR and more pixels (say 36Mp), EF mount compatible? - I'm probably buying. I don't care much about video features.

Not EF compatible (or say not compatible with all my lenses)? - I'm probably switching to the next Nikon mirrorless until it's not too late, because EF glass will be losing resale value. But I hope Canon won't betray us owners of EF glass.
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,972
1,160
UK
www.flickr.com
rjbray01 said:
If these announcements in September don't offer a compelling competitor product to Sony's Alpha range and any other cameras of a similar spec then I think its inevitable they will lose that momentum.

With the greatest of respect to you, people have been coming on these forums for years saying 'if Canon' don't do something soon they'll start to lose sales', and it's never happened. Why is *now* the crucial time? Each manufacturer has had its basic strategy for years - some characterise it as, Sony innovative/desperate to get a product to sell well, Canon conservative/risk averse - and we haven't seen a seismic shift in sales. Nor has the 'coming mirrorless revolution', as some have imagined it, changed the scene at more than a glacial pace.

I think from the data we have, anouncing glitzy, amazing-sounding products and getting praise from reviewers absolutely isn't the way to be a market leader, in this sector at least.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
scyrene said:
rjbray01 said:
If these announcements in September don't offer a compelling competitor product to Sony's Alpha range and any other cameras of a similar spec then I think its inevitable they will lose that momentum.

With the greatest of respect to you, people have been coming on these forums for years saying 'if Canon' don't do something soon they'll start to lose sales', and it's never happened. Why is *now* the crucial time? Each manufacturer has had its basic strategy for years - some characterise it as, Sony innovative/desperate to get a product to sell well, Canon conservative/risk averse - and we haven't seen a seismic shift in sales. Nor has the 'coming mirrorless revolution', as some have imagined it, changed the scene at more than a glacial pace.

I think from the data we have, anouncing glitzy, amazing-sounding products and getting praise from reviewers absolutely isn't the way to be a market leader, in this sector at least.

One of the big ongoing questions for the last several years has been whether internet buzz can have much impact on camera sales, particularly at the higher price points. Magic numbers like DR or fps or 4K capabilities are great for revving up the buzz, but how much do they really drive sales? How many people actually pay several thousand dollars for a camera without thinking carefully about what they want and need? This time there may once again be a fair amount of negative buzz about Canon missing the boat, just as there was with the 6DII and the 5DIV. Buzz may influence some early adopters, but how many early adopters are there at these price points? Many, if not most, people at price points north of $2000-$3000 already have a camera they are fairly happy with, so they tend to think for a while before they buy, if they decide to buy at all.
 

Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,232
1,547
rjbray01 said:
But that's what it is ... momentum.

If these announcements in September don't offer a compelling competitor product to Sony's Alpha range and any other cameras of a similar spec then I think its inevitable they will lose that momentum.
Oh, see what I found:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.msg1023#msg1023
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
scyrene said:
padam said:
People are expecting too much from this very first iteration.

I think this is probably the right way to look at it. Look how far the M-series has come since its first release.

it unfortunately has become "the Canon way of looking at it".

Each iteration of their cameras since about 2008 [when they lost leadership in CMOS sensors] matches roughly the specs that previous gen product should already have had to be fully competitive in IQ, functionality and performance.

eg:
* 5D3 had AF system that definitely should have been on 5D2 already
* 5D4 got a sensor that would have been about competitive at time 5D3 was launched
* EOS M3 had specs that would have been about competitive with "best in class" at the time when original EOS M was launched [and failed in market due to stupid Canon demanding an MSRP of 899 USD for it; so they had to firesale it at 299 ... ;D]
* EOS M5 should have had M50 sensor / DP-AF
* EOS 6D II ... oh well. It might have been roughly competitive at time 6D was launched
etc. etc.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
It seems as if Canon will roll out two fullframe mirrorless cameras fairly soon. Each of these cameras will tradeoff among several features including performance, size and weight and price. For minimizing size, weight and price, full frame cannot match aps-c. Therefore, the two mirrorless FF models need to provide additional performance compared to aps-c models while compromising on size weight and price.

What performance levels will Canon achieve with these two models, and what compromises will they make in size, weight and price? One extreme might be some sort of "Super M", a scaled up M50 with a fullframe sensor, which would be as small, light and inexpensive as possible. At the other end, there might be a performance monster, something like a 5DIV with an EVF, a DIGIC 8 processor and a new sensor, and whatever size weight and and price is necessary to max performance.

One of the models may be toward the Super M end of what is possible, with the other being more of a performance monster. Interesting times. It's nice to be sitting on the sidelines with my 5DIV.
 

edoorn

EOS RP
Apr 1, 2016
356
330
I'm not sure Canon can afford to release a lack lustre ff mirrorless. Sony has raised the bar to a new standard and the Nikon offerings (mind you; this is Nikon's first serious attempt at a mirrorless, if you ignore the 1 camera's) seem to be on par with that. Anything less and I'm quite sure a significant people interested in mirrorless FF will consider switching and lose confidence. So they need it to be a very good and worthy camera. They've had experience now with several M bodies so this should be no limitation.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
fullstop said:
scyrene said:
padam said:
People are expecting too much from this very first iteration.

I think this is probably the right way to look at it. Look how far the M-series has come since its first release.

it unfortunately has become "the Canon way of looking at it".

Each iteration of their cameras since about 2008 [when they lost leadership in CMOS sensors] matches roughly the specs that previous gen product should already have had to be fully competitive in IQ, functionality and performance.

eg:
* 5D3 had AF system that definitely should have been on 5D2 already
* 5D4 got a sensor that would have been about competitive at time 5D3 was launched
* EOS M3 had specs that would have been about competitive with "best in class" at the time when original EOS M was launched [and failed in market due to stupid Canon demanding an MSRP of 899 USD for it; so they had to firesale it at 299 ... ;D]
* EOS M5 should have had M50 sensor / DP-AF
* EOS 6D II ... oh well. It might have been roughly competitive at time 6D was launched
etc. etc.

So Canon should have rolled out the 5DIII AF in 2008? And the 6D should have had a dual pixel sensor (albeit without on chip ADC), along with a tilty-floppy screen and a touch screen interface in 2012? I know some people are into counterfactual history, but this is silly.
 

rjbray01

Canon Forever
Jan 19, 2017
138
85
scyrene said:
rjbray01 said:
If these announcements in September don't offer a compelling competitor product to Sony's Alpha range and any other cameras of a similar spec then I think its inevitable they will lose that momentum.

With the greatest of respect to you, people have been coming on these forums for years saying 'if Canon' don't do something soon they'll start to lose sales', and it's never happened. Why is *now* the crucial time? Each manufacturer has had its basic strategy for years - some characterise it as, Sony innovative/desperate to get a product to sell well, Canon conservative/risk averse - and we haven't seen a seismic shift in sales. Nor has the 'coming mirrorless revolution', as some have imagined it, changed the scene at more than a glacial pace.

I think from the data we have, anouncing glitzy, amazing-sounding products and getting praise from reviewers absolutely isn't the way to be a market leader, in this sector at least.

The reason now is different is because practically every potential camera buyer is already carrying an outstanding camera built into their mobile phone.

The camera sales market is shrinking : with increasingly complex camera functions being addressed by the phone capabilities.

I would expect fewer MILC sales to translate to fewer suppliers : survival of the fittest.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
yes. touch-sensitive "vari-angle" LCDs were already invented and implemented in Canon EOS 650D//Rebel T4i announced June 8, 2012.

The EOS 650D also becomes the first SLR from any manufacturer to feature a touchscreen. This is of the capacitive (contact sensitive) rather than resistive (pressure sensitive) type, behaving like that of a typical smartphone. In Live View and Movie modes the screen can be used to specify the point of focus and (optionally) release the shutter. It also supports iPhone-like multi-touch and gestures.

But hell no, the 6D [announced after 650D on September 17, 2012] could of course not feature such an "advanced" feature. It had to be reserved for the otherwise useless 6D Mk. II years later. This is exactly the kind of marketing nerfing that is so irksome with Canon.
 

kiwiengr

EOS M50
CR Pro
Feb 14, 2015
42
8
rjbray01 said:
The reason now is different is because practically every potential camera buyer is already carrying an outstanding camera built into their mobile phone.

The camera sales market is shrinking : with increasingly complex camera functions being addressed by the phone capabilities.

I would expect fewer MILC sales to translate to fewer suppliers : survival of the fittest.

Rubbish... one has a good smart phone (S8)... one has an excellent DSLR (5D4). I don't use the camera to make phone calls.. and the reverse option applies.