Build new Windows Desktop Q?

[monkey44]

Just bought a BenQ2700PT monitor - I now use it with my laptop, but plan on building a new desktop soon.

Can anyone recommend a graphics card that will allow me to use the monitor to its best advantage. And, any other tips (memory etc) that will make the set-up best for photography -

I will still process with Win 7 system - I know, I know - but its on four other PC's here and we want to keep them all the same as long as possible. Plus, we like it and son't want to learn another OS until its necessary ... several years, at least.

I never shoot video, and do not "Game" ... this will be still image processing and printing only ... either a Canon Pixma Pro 100 in-house, or will outsource for what it can't print. I shoot and process in RAW w/DPP first - then use PS Elements 15 ...

I'm not very 'tech smart' as far as "what do I need" ... just a user, not a designer, if that makes sense. I don't use the CLOUD, just multiple in-house backups.

Thanks for any advice ...

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I have built dozens of desktop pc's over the years, but I discovered that I can buy a Dell XPS for around $600 and add memory, replace the memory card, and have a nice PC for less than my cost to build one. Tat does not even include the cost of a OS.

Putting motherboards together with memory, power supply, case, video card, sound card if desired, is full of gotchas, sometimes things which are highly rated just do not play together well. I was always letting the specifications creep up and soon paying a crazy price for components that provided power I never used.

Its been a year since I checked on building a new one, as I recall, approproximate prices were:

Good Case $100
Motherboard $150
Processor $250
Power Supply $150
Memory $150
Video Card $250
Hard Drive $50
So about $1100k to do it yourself versus $500-$600 already built, tested, including OS and a year warranty.

About $350 to add more memory and video card to the Dell. Thats what I'm running now, I have two more that are each a year apart in age. I paid under $600 for a XPS i7 which is quite powerful enough for photo editing. The money saved went into a 1TB SSD. The SSD adds more to the pc than expensive processor, MB, Memory and Video Card.

You do not need much of a video card for image editing, even for the BenQ monitor, a $250 card is overkill. Video is a different story. I usually add 16 GB of memory to the 8 that Dell provides, expensive memory is a waste of money, I purchase Crucial memory matching the computer specification.

 

[YuengLinger]

I have built dozens of desktop pc's over the years, but I discovered that I can buy a Dell XPS for around $600 and add memory, replace the memory card, and have a nice PC for less than my cost to build one. Tat does not even include the cost of a OS.

Putting motherboards together with memory, power supply, case, video card, sound card if desired, is full of gotchas, sometimes things which are highly rated just do not play together well. I was always letting the specifications creep up and soon paying a crazy price for components that provided power I never used.

Its been a year since I checked on building a new one, as I recall, approproximate prices were:

Good Case $100
Motherboard $150
Processor $250
Power Supply $150
Memory $150
Video Card $250
Hard Drive $50
So about $1100k to do it yourself versus $500-$600 already built, tested, including OS and a year warranty.

About $350 to add more memory and video card to the Dell. Thats what I'm running now, I have two more that are each a year apart in age. I paid under $600 for a XPS i7 which is quite powerful enough for photo editing. The money saved went into a 1TB SSD. The SSD adds more to the pc than expensive processor, MB, Memory and Video Card.

You do not need much of a video card for image editing, even for the BenQ monitor, a $250 card is overkill. Video is a different story. I usually add 16 GB of memory to the 8 that Dell provides, expensive memory is a waste of money, I purchase Crucial memory matching the computer specification.

Do you ever have any wattage or quality issues with the Dell factory power supplies?

 

[LDS]

I shoot and process in RAW w/DPP first - then use PS Elements 15 ...

These software don't take much advantage (yet?) of parallel processing and GPU acceleration. Thereby CPU speed, even with less cores, could help, of course adding enough RAM (properly matched to the motherboard/CPU used).

If you don't need 3D performance, no need of an high end GPU (which will come with its power requirements also). Anyway, I'd stay away from the Intel embedded GPUs, and would go for an nVidia (or maybe ATI) one - better driver support IMHO, especially if you think you may switch to more powerful software in the future.

Windows 7 has no built-in support for USB 3, but most motherboards add their own. If you build a system yourself, get a reputable brand, again, better support. Good USB support is of course very valuable when you have to import or export images to USB devices.

Check the number of disk/USB ports and motherboard slots (memory, PCIe) - to match your needs.

Most Ethernet chips are OK, although I'd stay away from Realtek ones. Unless you also listen to music while working, the audio system is not important, anything will do.

SSD disks are not all born equal. If this is your work system, look for reliability. Also Windows 7 may need some proper configuration to avoid unnecessary wear (i.e. disabling defragmentation). Some SSD utilities do it automatically, others don't.

I still prefer some for of redundancy - restoring a failed system may take some time, and might cause a deadline miss.

Cheaper off-the-shelf systems are usually more aimed at office work than image processing - yet a pre-built system with a full warranty may be preferable unless you're used to solve the issues that may arise from a custom-built system. You just need to re-install it to clean up all the mess they pre-install

If you build a system yourself, ensure good cooling. It will last longer, and will lead to less errors. Many good pre-built system now comes with inserts to create forced air flows paths.

Don't forget a comfortable keyboard and mouse. Many cheap ones are not.

And of course - don't forget a good color calibration devices - especially if you're going to print yourself.

 

[monkey44]

Should have mentioned - We're not building this ourselves -- having this built by custom PC guys, but they are not so much into photos as gaming and video. So, I'm just checking here to make certain we give him the proper tech and specs ... It comes with a three-year warranty and life-time tech support.

I've lost a complete HD in the past when the 'spinner' quit on an HD, so now, we only use SSD for our drive systems and our backup discs. Plus, having this built is not a whole lot more expensive (a few hundred bucks) than the "off-shelf" brands iof we 'upgrade' those, and we get to call out exactly what we want. This same company built my laptop, and it's amazing. Plus, they will build with Win 7 Pro installed.

An, yes, we intend some higher-end and possibly work Adobe RGB in the future, so will upgrade the graphic card now to save hassle later. We never shoot video and don't need 3D performance (well, never say never, but not in our development plan at the moment).

We're transitioning from photo-journalists to gallery and online photo and art sales - well, will do both actually. We are outfitting a new home office at present - but have a medium budget for now. We're neither one very tech oriented (wife and me) so, we ask photo pros the best advice for good equipment that won't break our bank account.

BTW: The BenQ 2700 some folks on here recommended is truly awesome ... only had it week - but it is one sweet monitor. Quite different than laptop screens we've been using for years.

 

[LDS]

I've lost a complete HD in the past when the 'spinner' quit on an HD, so now, we only use SSD for our drive systems and our backup discs.

Just remember SSDs have a limited life as well. And when they die, they die. That's what redundancy for.

Plus, they will build with Win 7 Pro installed.

Be careful. MS OEM sales ended on October 31st 2016 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet). Or they have some licenses bought before, or it has dowgrade rights (but they have to sell you the actual software license, and downgrade it). or it isn't a legal copy.

 

[monkey44]

I've lost a complete HD in the past when the 'spinner' quit on an HD, so now, we only use SSD for our drive systems and our backup discs.

Just remember SSDs have a limited life as well. And when they die, they die. That's what redundancy for.

Plus, they will build with Win 7 Pro installed.

Be careful. MS OEM sales ended on October 31st 2016 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet). Or they have some licenses bought before, or it has dowgrade rights (but they have to sell you the actual software license, and downgrade it). or it isn't a legal copy.

Yes, redundancy - we have a working SSD, and we copy an original to it from storage SSD when we process it. We also have an additional backup of all images going back about fifteen years or so. So, three copies of everything, all on separate SSD, two are only storage -- never go online, never works images on those drives.

Will check on Win 7 license - I believe they own a bunch of licenses and sell as they build new PC's. Some folks still like/want Win 7 ... eventually, the will die out. This is a USA company (Kansas), not foreign, altho it custom builds ASUS PC and Laptops. The company is Xotic PC, if anyone is interested, and has in-house tech service, not out-sourced.

 

[LDS]

Yes, redundancy - we have a working SSD, and we copy an original to it from storage SSD when we process it. We also have an additional backup of all images going back about fifteen years or so. So, three copies of everything, all on separate SSD, two are only storage -- never go online, never works images on those drives.

Redundancy is not backup - it's high-availability, not disaster recovery.

It allows to keep on working if a component fails, until it is replaced. It protects the work you do between two backups (and allows for an emergency backup when something fails, before another failure leads to a total loss). And lets you work even if a disk fails - without you usually need a full reinstall/restore and it may take time. Of course the level of redundancy you need depends on your requirements - i.e. another PC may allow you to work still - how many work is lost between backups and how much it does cost to you depends on the backup frequency and how you work.

 

[Sabaki]

Guys, what's your take on doing the SSD for OS and Photoshop and other progs and then a separate HDD for storage?

I was advised to write as few times as possible to the SSD, as they have a finite amount of times one can write to them

Also RAM, is 8gig enough or should I go 16?

 

[ethanz]

16GB memory (adobe loves memory)
512GB SSD for storage (plenty of room for working files, I have 1TB on my laptop)
i7 processor, maybe the i7 7700
to be honest, Intel's embedded graphics are great, but you could probably get a cheap Nvida gpu to give a little boost, nothing over $100.


The whole build probably shouldn't cost over $1,000, unless you get a PCIe SSD.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Do you ever have any wattage or quality issues with the Dell factory power supplies?

Their power supplies are probably their best feature, they last far longer than any other power supply I've bought from Newegg, and I've tried all the highly rated ones. Although they are rated at 460 watts, they actually put out 460 watts, so you do not have to buy a 800 watt power supply to get 460 reliable watts.

There are plenty of good video cards that can work with the power supply, and by using a SSD, you cut power consumption a little.

I see they now have a retail price of 700 with a 10% additional discount. I'm retired and can buy one thru my former employer for a bigger discount. Many can do this. I almost bought one, since one old one appeared to be dying last December, it used a 500 GB M-SATA card, which kept getting startup files corrupted. I put in a standard 2.5 SSD and its fine now. I've tested that M SATA over and over since and cannot find a issue, the SMART shows excellent, so who knows if that 7 year old Dell has a flakey slot for the M SATA.

http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-8910-desktop

 

[monkey44]

Yes, redundancy - we have a working SSD, and we copy an original to it from storage SSD when we process it. We also have an additional backup of all images going back about fifteen years or so. So, three copies of everything, all on separate SSD, two are only storage -- never go online, never works images on those drives.

Redundancy is not backup - it's high-availability, not disaster recovery.

It allows to keep on working if a component fails, until it is replaced. It protects the work you do between two backups (and allows for an emergency backup when something fails, before another failure leads to a total loss). And lets you work even if a disk fails - without you usually need a full reinstall/restore and it may take time. Of course the level of redundancy you need depends on your requirements - i.e. another PC may allow you to work still - how many work is lost between backups and how much it does cost to you depends on the backup frequency and how you work.

Laptop = 500g Samsung SSD C drive for the OS and programs - we work on it daily.
plus::
Laptop = 500g SSD Samsung D drive for the image storage - several times a day, and at the end of the day, we transfer a copy of all current work to the D drive.

At least once a week, we duplicate the D drive new work to a separate storage backup 500g SSD - when it fills, we start another. All my new images go to the storage drive - and the D drive. When we work / process, we make an image copy and work on the C drive ... this laptop never sees the internet.
We have two other laptops that do all our internet work, sending and downloading etc. the only time the work laptop goes on line is to download or activate a program - otherwise, it's always offline and disconnected from internet. Just a safety measure for protection of work product and from any internet virus etc ...

We're here just to be sure we build this new desktop and don't forget something we might need or want for the image processing - we can use the programs, just are not sure what is the best PC "guts" for photo work, and everything nowadays seems geared for video and gaming. That's not always best for images and changes in the tech world change faster than the blink of an eye ...

Everyone always says::

Electronics changed the way we process and store images - going from film to digital ... Might be a lot more complicated now, as in the past, we just stored the slide or the film rolls, and made a log. Digital might be more efficient and effective in the short run and in the field with multiple shots, instant viewing, and no film/slide and lab costs- not so sure it's the best of all options for pro photographers... It gets pretty complicated when we consider safe-keeping and security - and how fast technology changes and becomes obsolete, at least for the pros if not the hobby buffs.

 

[ethanz]

Adding to my post, you should think about PCIe SSD storage. Its way faster than regular SSD. I have it on my macbook and it loads/copies pictures so fast. Of course it is more expensive, but its worth it.

 

[monkey44]

Laptop SSD C: drive = 500GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD ... also, same SSD in the D: Storage.

Pretty fast - and fine for the laptop, which will become a field tool instead, once I get the office desktops built and setup. So, will look at the PCIe as well.

In fact, we're more concerned with quality and the correct configuration for photo processing than we are about speed. Altho, the two may go hand in hand, for all we know about tech engineering.

We do not develop 'fast production' projects - more detailed, as we include lots of description (writing) with the images. So, speed of processing becomes less important than print quality when we submit to print journals etc., or for AD copy prints. OR, for our own personal challenges ...

 

[YuengLinger]

Do you ever have any wattage or quality issues with the Dell factory power supplies?

Their power supplies are probably their best feature, they last far longer than any other power supply I've bought from Newegg, and I've tried all the highly rated ones. Although they are rated at 460 watts, they actually put out 460 watts, so you do not have to buy a 800 watt power supply to get 460 reliable watts.

There are plenty of good video cards that can work with the power supply, and by using a SSD, you cut power consumption a little.

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[tolusina]

There's a 10 bit demo from NEC on this page
http://www.necdisplay.com/monitor-software

Ask your builder to use it or one similar to verify you're getting what you expect from your new monitor.

 

[zim]

... I discovered that I can buy a Dell XPS for around $600 ....

where how please ! ?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

... I discovered that I can buy a Dell XPS for around $600 ....

where how please ! ?

I buy them thru my company plan for employees, a 16% discount from a already lower price. I think the deal is typical.

After posting in the forum the other day, I went to the Dell member shop http://www.dell.com/en-us/member/shop/ selected the XPS, entered my discount code and on the base $832 XPS tower with i7 processor, the price was $698.88, so the price has went up since a year ago.

The other thing is that their new tower no longer has a CF slot, or space for a 2nd CD. I use both of those. They also are still selling the 6th generation i7 processors, but the 7th generation is shipping, so they will be changing soon.

I then proceeded to the Dell outlet to try and order one of the refurbished Dell 8900's which are the same processor, but use the older design tower case. My discount would not work, so I contacted the person who deals with the company discounts at Dell, he said no discount on the outlet refurbished items. I've bought refurbished before and they could not be told from new. A refurbished XPS tower (8900) goes for around $579 (and up). I was going to get two, but thought I'd wait for a sale, they discount them regularly just like the Canon outlet does.

I then went to Newegg and started pricing a build my own, $315 for processor, there is a MB bundle available with it for $15, Memory cost ~160, and I had already almost hit the price for a Dell, so I did not bother to price case, power supply, video card, hard drive, keyboard, windows 10, and mouse as it would have hit much higher. I don't need a lot of that stuff, but it comes with the Dell. I noticed that the 7th generation i7 processor also needs a separate cooler, its not included with the processor, so its a hidden price increase. The 7th generation processor is no faster, it is supposed to use less power, but I do not think its really worth waiting for from Dell. I prefer the tower case that the 8900 has, and its >$100 less for a refurb. So, I plan to get two if a sale hits.

 

[zim]

Ah a tower, I'm being stupid I was thinking laptop but rereading your post obviously a desktop.

I've been seriously considering a desktop for my next machine but I love the convenience of a laptop (non pro photog) so was thinking if I was doing a big editing session I would sit at the desktop with a good screen and if I was just dabbling with a few images, sending stuff to printers, housekeeping I could rdp in to it from a lower spec'd laptop. Would need a good screen resolution though, would the resolution need to be the same as the desktop ? Or is the whole idea daft and a no-go?

I'd be very interested in any thoughts
Regards

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Ah a tower, I'm being stupid I was thinking laptop but rereading your post obviously a desktop.

I've been seriously considering a desktop for my next machine but I love the convenience of a laptop (non pro photog) so was thinking if I was doing a big editing session I would sit at the desktop with a good screen and if I was just dabbling with a few images, sending stuff to printers, housekeeping I could rdp in to it from a lower spec'd laptop. Would need a good screen resolution though, would the resolution need to be the same as the desktop ? Or is the whole idea daft and a no-go?

I'd be very interested in any thoughts
Regards

Some users like laptops desktops for editing, they have enough power to run photoshop, but the screens are the place where you need to be careful. For the most part, the screens are awful for photo editing, but there are a few that make the grade. some use a separate full sized monitor. I hate the keyboard, so I was also using a separate keyboard and mouse along with monitor and even usb hard drive. Kinda defeats the point of a laptop if you have to do that, so choose carefully.