Canon 5D Mark IV vs Sony A7R II interesting review.

Yiannis A - Greece

EOS M6 Mark II
Nov 4, 2014
57
0
Dear friends,

what i found on "The Slanted Lens" video page on youtube, seems quite interesting to me. It's a modest "duel" that every possible buyer of one or the other camera has on mind. There are many guys, thinking of jumping ship, that should pay attention to this honest (in my opinion) comparison.

I came to my own conclusions after trying an A7R ii last year (just out of academic interest) but, 5D Mk4 was not available back then so, this is the right time to think of a straight comparison between the two of them.
To me, Sony alpha models, in general, look like quite flimsy toys with lots of specs but little respect to the consumer when it comes to after market value; otherwise, why do they go on changing models every single year? Apart from this, even though i'm just an enthousiast amateur, with a fair bit of G.A.S. and a deep pocket to support it, i just can't take seriously a piece of equipment that needs a new battery and overheats every half an hour (or less in many occasions), is a pain in the butt to go through the menus, feels tiny in someones hands (at least mine), and gets time and effort to adjust correctly (sony stills colors are awful compared to Canon) in post processing.

Apart from all mentioned above, i honestly think that A7R ii is not better than my pair of 5D Mk3s when it comes to high ISO noise (let alone the 5D Mk4). Taking pictures myself last year, it was obvious that noise above ISO 3200 with A7R ii was waaaay worse than that of 5D Mk3; it was the resolution that saved the day because you had quite some room to "play" with in post. It's also apparent in comparison tools like that of DPReview, even though many people seem biased, saying the exact opposite thing! I just can't see this "king of low light"; maybe i'm blind or my eyes are very modest to recognise its highness! Full frame 4K also, that many people praise over the Mk4 nowadays on the internet, looked like real crap on the A7R ii, with huge noise amounts and low resolution. Super 35mm with it's own crop factor, was the one that saved the game for Sony!

Now again, that's my very own opinion and everybody has one as well as an a....le (as Clint Eastwood said).
Spending some time to watch the video, you may come to interesting conclusions (at least i did), when it comes to reverse engineering of overexposing and rolling back, instead of underexposing, as well as color rendition performance between the two "contenders".

Here is the link, enjoy for yourselves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSpXJadCfcQ

Greetings from warm, summery, starry Greece. All my best wishes to you and all your beloved.

Yours
Yiannis A
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,082
404
"Taking pictures myself last year, it was obvious that noise above ISO 3200 with A7R ii was waaaay worse than that of 5D Mk3."

Weird. I wonder if something was wrong with the Sony. At no ISO setting are either of my 5d3's better than my a7r2 from a noise perspective. My Sony sucks at low light AF, but from a SNR perspective it bests my 5d3's even if the differences are marginal.
 
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turtle

EOS M50
Sep 27, 2014
38
0
I can understand why anyone would not like the Sony A7 series cameras, however, colour is subjective and I may like Canon SOOC colour better, but I find Sony more natural looking. There are advantages and disadvantages to each.

As for high ISO performance, when normalised to an equivalent resolution, every credible test gives an advantage to the A7R II. When you start pushing file or testing DR, or high ISO colour, the Sony draws further and further ahead of the 5D III. This objective data is available. Heck, the 5D III cannot come close to my A7 II with regard to DR, colour fidelity after a push etc. In terms of outright noise, they are comparable, but the A7 II is some way behind the A7 R II...
 
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xps

EOS R
Oct 19, 2011
1,035
135
Middle Europe
IMO the 7RII has an extraordinary good IQ. Combined with an high end lens, its an lighter alternative to Canon. The sensor is still market leading and I got some marvellous shots with it.
Some of my family members are Sony-phil and own a lot of its gear. Sony has the same quality variability like all other brands too. So, my (broken) 7RII performed better in AF, but had a lot more noise over 1600 Iso than my relatives 7RII. You have to accept this, and I did so.
But it is true, that an fast turn over is not the customers friend. So, some companies are not interested in designing long-living products with less design/function errors. The just bring an better version 1-1.5years later on the market. And a lot of us will buy it.

Fo me, Canon produces stable and higher than average cameras that you can use for some years. Sony beats Canon camera specs in a lot points, but not in all (AF). And their service is still really really bad.
So there are five highend Zeiss lenses and an overheated and broken brand-new 7RII lying in my cabinet.
Maybe I will give Sony a try again, when the A9 appears and Canon is not reacting on that.

P.S.:
And I heared an interesting talk between some visitors at photokina. They talked how to bash/praise one´s product by reviewing it. So, some sensors have weaknesses in IQ (like some more noise in red light ). It´s up to the reviewer, which kind or colour balanced of shot he reviews when he compares cameras.
Also by targeted highlighting weaknesses or praising strongesses of the favored product.
Interestingly there seems to be some hints from companies existing, how to review an product to highlight their products and what are weaknesses of others.
 
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3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,082
404
The video linked it interesting. The sony seems to handle overexposure/pulling better and the canon seems to handle underexposure/pushing better. I wonder if it comes down to the codec.

xps said:
But it is true, that an fast turn over is not the customers friend.

I disagree. Fast product refresh is advantageous for consumers. If compelling new products can be developed quickly, consumers have more options. If they don't find new models compelling, they need not buy. As a business model, I prefer that to companies who have compelling and viable tech but sit on it on a timeline designed to sell older products longer. If at any time I need a new camera (for example, one of mine breaks), I would ideally have the best possible product available.

If models are designed to break on a timeline, or if the manufacturer refuses to make reasonable efforts to troubleshoot recent old models, that's no good.
 
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xps

EOS R
Oct 19, 2011
1,035
135
Middle Europe
3kramd5 said:
The video linked it interesting. The sony seems to handle overexposure/pulling better and the canon seems to handle underexposure/pushing better. I wonder if it comes down to the codec.

xps said:
But it is true, that an fast turn over is not the customers friend.

I disagree. Fast product refresh is advantageous for consumers. If compelling new products can be developed quickly, consumers have more options. If they don't find new models compelling, they need not buy. As a business model, I prefer that to companies who have compelling and viable tech but sit on it on a timeline designed to sell older products longer. If at any time I need a new camera (for example, one of mine breaks), I would ideally have the best possible product available.

If models are designed to break on a timeline, or if the manufacturer refuses to make reasonable efforts to troubleshoot recent old models, that's no good.
I see your point.
True. This is/was my opinion too. I learned to see the other statement too, when Semi/professionals are dissatisfied by some great but on the other hand some bad features. So, they more like to own an stable workhorse with better than average features.
In the other lines (< or lets say <=6D) such fast refreshing would be great.

By the way: One of my family members has preordered his A99 II this week. And three reserve batteries to allow 1500 shots for his airshows. And an extra repair and maintenance service package for two years for a lot of bucks....
 
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Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,357
561
3kramd5 said:
I disagree. Fast product refresh is advantageous for consumers. If compelling new products can be developed quickly, consumers have more options. If they don't find new models compelling, they need not buy. As a business model, I prefer that to companies who have compelling and viable tech but sit on it on a timeline designed to sell older products longer. If at any time I need a new camera (for example, one of mine breaks), I would ideally have the best possible product available.

If models are designed to break on a timeline, or if the manufacturer refuses to make reasonable efforts to troubleshoot recent old models, that's no good.

The problem is, fast product refresh is rarely conducive to 'compelling new models'. You end up with a lot of relatively small functional adaptations with each model with cries of 'where's the really new stuff' and a feeling that the customers are being fobbed off with new marketing gimmicks and the company is not innovating. It also means that a new tech may be introduced before it has been fully developed and despite innovation its impact is not fully realised. This is why some people only upgrade by two models at a time.
 
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3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,082
404
Mikehit said:
3kramd5 said:
I disagree. Fast product refresh is advantageous for consumers. If compelling new products can be developed quickly, consumers have more options. If they don't find new models compelling, they need not buy. As a business model, I prefer that to companies who have compelling and viable tech but sit on it on a timeline designed to sell older products longer. If at any time I need a new camera (for example, one of mine breaks), I would ideally have the best possible product available.

If models are designed to break on a timeline, or if the manufacturer refuses to make reasonable efforts to troubleshoot recent old models, that's no good.

The problem is, fast product refresh is rarely conducive to 'compelling new models'. You end up with a lot of relatively small functional adaptations with each model with cries of 'where's the really new stuff' and a feeling that the customers are being fobbed off with new marketing gimmicks and the company is not innovating. It also means that a new tech may be introduced before it has been fully developed and despite innovation its impact is not fully realised. This is why some people only upgrade by two models at a time.

As the consumer, you get to decide what is compelling. And while a quick turn redesign may not be compelling for someone who already owns a functioning older model, for someone making their first purchase or a required purchase (broken or insufficient gear), having the newer model available when it's ready versus when the accounting department says it should be released is advantageous.
 
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drjlo

EOS R
Mar 27, 2012
805
7
Yiannis A - Greece said:
and gets time and effort to adjust correctly (sony stills colors are awful compared to Canon) in post processing.

I prefer the smaller size of Sony A7R and the 36 MP sensor over A7R II, but to be honest, at this price level, I spend some time to make sure the white balance and color is taken care of in post, for both Sony and 5D III, which takes about the same amount of time and effort. Sure, out of camera WB/color looks prettier from 5D III, but it's still not quite neutral IMO and still needs to be post-processed.

From, IQ point of view, in real life there really isn't much in it if one's shooting RAW IME.

The real issue is what happens when Sony needs to be serviced/repaired, etc. Canon service is miles ahead...
 
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Ozarker

Love, joy, and peace to all of good will.
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
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The Ozarks
Yiannis A - Greece said:
Dear friends,

"...even though i'm just an enthusiast amateur, with a fair bit of G.A.S. and a deep pocket to support it..."

Greetings from warm, summery, starry Greece. All my best wishes to you and all your beloved.

Yours
Yiannis A

My Dear Yiannis A,

May I borrow one of your deep pockets for about ten minutes? I am in dire need of a Canon EF 600mm f/4L, 400mm f/2.8L, 85mm f/1.2L, and a 35mm f/1.4L II. :)

Unfortunately, I lost my deep pockets in a boating accident a couple of years ago while swimming in the Aegean Sea off the coast of Myconos with a few of my my lady friends. I've no idea where the girls hid them. :'( The hazards of being an international playboy are many, as I am sure you understand :)

Should you ever want to visit Mesquite, Nevada I shall be happy to play the penny slots with you. :)

I am also a very hard worker and would be happy to be your pool boy or valet. You may pay me with Canon gear.

Thank you for your very kind consideration.

Your loving friend,
Charles
 
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Yiannis A - Greece

EOS M6 Mark II
Nov 4, 2014
57
0
CanonFanBoy said:
Yiannis A - Greece said:
Dear friends,

"...even though i'm just an enthusiast amateur, with a fair bit of G.A.S. and a deep pocket to support it..."

Greetings from warm, summery, starry Greece. All my best wishes to you and all your beloved.

Yours
Yiannis A

My Dear Yiannis A,

May I borrow one of your deep pockets for about ten minutes? I am in dire need of a Canon EF 600mm f/4L, 400mm f/2.8L, 85mm f/1.2L, and a 35mm f/1.4L II. :)

Unfortunately, I lost my deep pockets in a boating accident a couple of years ago while swimming in the Aegean Sea off the coast of Myconos with a few of my my lady friends. I've no idea where the girls hid them. :'( The hazards of being an international playboy are many, as I am sure you understand :)

Should you ever want to visit Mesquite, Nevada I shall be happy to play the penny slots with you. :)

I am also a very hard worker and would be happy to be your pool boy or valet. You may pay me with Canon gear.

Thank you for your very kind consideration.

Your loving friend,
Charles
Dear Charles,

i really feel sorry for your Aegean "loss" but, i never made the mistake to get close to the island of Mykonos with or without company. When it comes to "pocket picking" girls in Greece, we call them something like "posquitos" in English; an abbrevation of "pu..y" and "mosquito"; they both suck your blood dry (literally or not) and leave you lifeless!!!
I'm earning my money the hard way too; as an entrepreneur i have seventy seven families to take direct, good care of every month, a beloved wife who (fortunately) takes care of herself and my childish one, and a wonderful, though half-crazy cat that needs our support to...make it through the day :D
No kids to worry about, i preferred spending my youth travelling, swimming, eating, doing whatever i wanted to, without having to take care of nobody but my wife, myself, my cat (i've always had one cat) and those i work with (i hate the word "boss", that's for dog owners only; my employees do what they practically love to, get about 75% above logistics industry's average salary and treat me like a real brother and co-traveller in the journey of life).

I could arrange some kind of a fund raiser to satisfy your need for specific lenses as i only have one deep pocket (money gets in and out the same one), permanently occupied by my right hand.

When it comes to pools, i simply don't have one. When i'm not abroad, I prefer spending half my "Greek" time at my cottage by the sea. We could still arrange something like cleaning the beach or whatever... 8)

I'd be glad to meet you dear Charles, if i ever visited Mesquite; i've been to Vegas four times (a taste of kitsch is always fun), i think Mesquite would be much-much better (in fact, everything should be much better than a pseudo-glamorous, prefabricated city like Vegas).

Well ,that's it for now my dear. I wish you all the best, have fun, do whatever makes you happy, be surrounded by those you love the most.

Yours
Yiannis.
 
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Ozarker

Love, joy, and peace to all of good will.
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,813
4,235
The Ozarks
Yiannis A - Greece said:
CanonFanBoy said:
Yiannis A - Greece said:
Dear friends,

"...even though i'm just an enthusiast amateur, with a fair bit of G.A.S. and a deep pocket to support it..."

Greetings from warm, summery, starry Greece. All my best wishes to you and all your beloved.

Yours
Yiannis A

My Dear Yiannis A,

May I borrow one of your deep pockets for about ten minutes? I am in dire need of a Canon EF 600mm f/4L, 400mm f/2.8L, 85mm f/1.2L, and a 35mm f/1.4L II. :)

Unfortunately, I lost my deep pockets in a boating accident a couple of years ago while swimming in the Aegean Sea off the coast of Myconos with a few of my my lady friends. I've no idea where the girls hid them. :'( The hazards of being an international playboy are many, as I am sure you understand :)

Should you ever want to visit Mesquite, Nevada I shall be happy to play the penny slots with you. :)

I am also a very hard worker and would be happy to be your pool boy or valet. You may pay me with Canon gear.

Thank you for your very kind consideration.

Your loving friend,
Charles
Dear Charles,

i really feel sorry for your Aegean "loss" but, i never made the mistake to get close to the island of Mykonos with or without company. When it comes to "pocket picking" girls in Greece, we call them something like "posquitos" in English; an abbrevation of "pu..y" and "mosquito"; they both suck your blood dry (literally or not) and leave you lifeless!!!
I'm earning my money the hard way too; as an entrepreneur i have seventy seven families to take direct, good care of every month, a beloved wife who (fortunately) takes care of herself and my childish one, and a wonderful, though half-crazy cat that needs our support to...make it through the day :D
No kids to worry about, i preferred spending my youth travelling, swimming, eating, doing whatever i wanted to, without having to take care of nobody but my wife, myself, my cat (i've always had one cat) and those i work with (i hate the word "boss", that's for dog owners only; my employees do what they practically love to, get about 75% above logistics industry's average salary and treat me like a real brother and co-traveller in the journey of life).

I could arrange some kind of a fund raiser to satisfy your need for specific lenses as i only have one deep pocket (money gets in and out the same one), permanently occupied by my right hand.

When it comes to pools, i simply don't have one. When i'm not abroad, I prefer spending half my "Greek" time at my cottage by the sea. We could still arrange something like cleaning the beach or whatever... 8)

I'd be glad to meet you dear Charles, if i ever visited Mesquite; i've been to Vegas four times (a taste of kitsch is always fun), i think Mesquite would be much-much better (in fact, everything should be much better than a pseudo-glamorous, prefabricated city like Vegas).

Well ,that's it for now my dear. I wish you all the best, have fun, do whatever makes you happy, be surrounded by those you love the most.

Yours
Yiannis.

:)My good friend Yiannis,

You say logistics! Ahhhhh.... I am truck driver and would love to drive Europe.

By the way, the girls didn't just steal my deep pockets... they took swim shorts and all.

You are correct about Las Vegas. Mesquite is more authentic and we prefer to go bounding through the desert on off road vehicles.

How could Nevada ever compete with Casino de Monte-Carlo? Never!

Thankfully we at least have Jazmin Grace Grimaldi, the daughter of Prince Albert II of Monaco, living not far away in Palm Springs. I'm sure you've been charmed by her presence many times. She's such a beautiful young woman.

All the best to you my friend.

I'll come drive for you anytime.

All the best,
Charles
 
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