Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

[HarryFilm]

Yes, but that Is Harry. An idea of a disposable telephoto lens was meant to be appealing to a certain audience.

I don't want it to be a disposable lens, I just want it to be a FAST lens!

And modern plastics with 1.54 and 1.77 index of refractions ARE the way to go... giving us LIGHT WEIGHT AND FAST LENSES !!!

It means we CAN have that 95-800 mm Sigma Sports Zoom at f4.0 to f/5.6 that is LIGHTER and shorter than today's Sigma 150-to-600 mm sports zoom!

I'll pay DECENT MONEY for that ability!

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[SecureGSM]

I don't want it to be a disposable lens, I just want it to be a FAST lens!

And modern plastics with 1.54 and 1.77 index of refractions ARE the way to go... giving us LIGHT WEIGHT AND FAST LENSES !!!

It means we CAN have that 95-800 mm Sigma Sports Zoom at f4.0 to f/5.6 that is LIGHTER and shorter than today's Sigma 150-to-600 mm sports zoom!

I'll pay DECENT MONEY for that ability!

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Very good. but Acryllic will go yellow in 3-5 years from new due to UV exposure in outdoors resulting in yellowish tint on images taken with your super lens. Harry. this is not a good idea..

 

[telemaque]

If the sensor bandwidth is barely enough to scan the whole 8k area of the sensor at 30 fps (which seems highly likely, alhough maybe Canon will surprise us), then you need to reduce the amount of pixels scanned at higher fps to stay below the bandwidth limit.

OK understood.
I had not the brandwith in mind, indeed this is also a strong limitation for such a number of pixels.
Thanks for the explanation.

 

[BillB]

At this point, it's anybody's guess. I tend to agree that it will come in at about the same level as the 5DV. The 5DIV was released at $3499. So maybe Canon introduces the R5 at $3799 to take advantage of pent-up demand. If they feel it is a stronger offering than the 5D, they may release the 5DV at around $3,599. Charging a $200 premium for the mirrorless.

One question to think about is how many people are ready to jump into mirrorless at the 5 level. Also most potential buyers are going to have pretty good cameras already, so another question is how happy they are with what they have now.

 

[telemaque]

Awesome. And you are 100% right about 4k. I would not shoot even a simple thing like a training video on 1080. It has to be 4k!!!

Yes even an amateur like me, who is shooting only for alumni association, astronomy club, a little number of corporate videos for my job, is also only shooting in 4K now. With the exception of interviews where you are at 1.5 meter from the person. That I shoot with my Canon XA30 in 1080, the faces of the people are nicer this way.

18 months ago I bought the Lumix FZ1000 which is roughly a small GH4 with IBIS and no possibility to change lens. The video quality is very impressive.
I started to compare HD and 4K, at the end I only produce Blue Ray Disks or video in HD files, and I have been very surprised by the difference in quality if you shoot in 4k, mount in 4K and export in HD... I do not really understand why but it is quite clear.

Just to confirm that even amateurs have seen the interest of shooting in 4k. Also the reason I am interested in the R5 that should have 4K with no crop.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

One question to think about is how many people are ready to jump into mirrorless at the 5 level.

No problems at all. Most of the people on this forum are level 80 photographers anyway.

 

[telemaque]

Technically, you are very correct in that Acrylic has a refractive index of 1.4917 while Soda-lime glass is 1.523 .... BUT .... since Acrylic can be fairly easily CNC MACHINED you can get those fancy symmetric and asymmetric compound convex and concave curves that help with light gathering that helps you get a FASTER lens. The thin film deposition Sapphire coating is for protective anti-scratch purposes only.

So as a final answer, Polycarbonate is BEST for making the fastest lightweight plastic lenses (i.e. faster than Glass) BUT Acrylic is easier to machine and polish! They just need to get the anti-scratch coatings right!

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Harry,

Your writing is very interesting. Do you have any weblink to share where people who would like to dive into (even more) details could?
Details like which company is working on this? Which lab is working on this? Where are the production sites.
etc.
Thanks a lot.

 

[BeenThere]

Harry,

Your writing is very interesting. Do you have any weblink to share where people who would like to dive into (even more) details could?
Details like which company is working on this? Which lab is working on this? Where are the production sites.
etc.
Thanks a lot.

If there is a practicle edge to be had, you can bet one or more lens manufactures are exploring the possibility. So, time will tell and we look forward to an announcement for a fast and light weight lens.
Edit: Process and material patents should be a tell.

 

[Kit.]

Very good. but Acryllic will go yellow in 3-5 years from new due to UV exposure in outdoors resulting in yellowish tint on images taken with your super lens. Harry. this is not a good idea..

So all those "UV protection filters" are just marketing BS?

(won't surprise me, though)

 

[Sharlin]

No problems at all. Most of the people on this forum are level 80 photographers anyway.

Damn, I should buy the expansion pack then. Still capped at level 60

 

[Architect1776]

One question to think about is how many people are ready to jump into mirrorless at the 5 level. Also most potential buyers are going to have pretty good cameras already, so another question is how happy they are with what they have now.

Many of us have been using our older cameras for some time.
Perhaps I am not the average consumer but I went from 10D to 7D and still use the 7D as the incremental improvements since then are not sufficient to make me want to jump as they will not make me any better. The 10D to 7D was primarily because of DR and Pixels 6.5 to 18.
Now I am looking at the R5 as a real jump that will allow for ability to do things my 7D is lacking and for me the use of my old FD and older lenses and have IBIS. So now moving up has become truly interesting. Those who get a new camera every year or itteration will buy new because they do just to have the latest.
I do see the R5 as a major jump over all Canon DSLRs except the 1D MIII by a huge margin.

 

[koenkooi]

So all those "UV protection filters" are just marketing BS?

(won't surprise me, though)

I read an article recently where test showed that some UV filters don't actually block UV, but I can't find the link to that. Roger from lensrentals did measure UV filters a while back, have a look at the results.

And on the topic of UV filters: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/05/yet-another-post-about-my-issues-with-uv-filters/

 

[telemaque]

It highly depends upon the coatings and plastic formula dopants used!

Our in-house optical engineer said that indium-based anti-reflective/anti-glare coatings plus hydroxyphenyltriazines UV stabilizers AND/OR Hindered Amine Light Stabilizers (HALS aka 2,2,6,6-tetramethylpiperidine) will extend the Polycarbonate lifespan by decades. If you introduce UV wavelength barriers in the thin film vapour deposited Sapphire coating itself, yellowing of the Polycarbonate or Acrylic is almost completely avoided (an infused sapphire UV barrier coating AND an in-plastic anti-UV additive will allow 50 year to 100+ year lifespans of plastic lenses!)

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If you are like me, chemistry is your major but you might be confused with chemical names and prefer drawing to understand what is the molecule discussed. Here is the picture. Much clearer when you SEE it than when you read the name, right?
Maybe why you like photography?

2,2,6,6-tetramethylpiperidine

 

[telemaque]

It highly depends upon the coatings and plastic formula dopants used!

Our in-house optical engineer said that indium-based anti-reflective/anti-glare coatings plus hydroxyphenyltriazines UV stabilizers AND/OR Hindered Amine Light Stabilizers (HALS aka 2,2,6,6-tetramethylpiperidine) will extend the Polycarbonate lifespan by decades. If you introduce UV wavelength barriers in the thin film vapour deposited Sapphire coating itself, yellowing of the Polycarbonate or Acrylic is almost completely avoided (an infused sapphire UV barrier coating AND an in-plastic anti-UV additive will allow 50 year to 100+ year lifespans of plastic lenses!)

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If like me, you find the comments of Harry VERY INTERESTING, but want to make sure you have fully captured all details written between the lines, you might want some further explanation on how HALS works in the proctection of the plastic against UV light. Here is a good explanation from BASF, showing the different protections against UV light and at the end how HALS works.

Dispersions & Resins

www.dispersions-pigments.basf.com

Again Harry, I really appreciate your detailed comments. It gives me the opportunity to learn further.
A real pleasure, thanks so much!

 

[HarryFilm]

If you are like me, chemistry is your major but you might be confused with chemical names and prefer drawing to understand what is the molecule discussed. Here is the picture. Much clearer when you SEE it than when you read the name, right?
Maybe why you like photography?

2,2,6,6-tetramethylpiperidine

View attachment 188762

Hmmmm ..... can we change that over to hydroxyphenyltriazines for actual UV absorption (C9H7N3O) in Polycarbonate rather than using the above as a general plastic stabilizer and free radical scavenger molecule!

I should note that I am NOT an accredited Chemist but rather know just barely enough to be dangerous!

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[Kit.]

I should note that I am NOT an accredited Chemist but rather know just barely enough to be dangerous!

That's obvious by your calling hydroxyphenyltriazine "hydroxyphenyltriazines". You don't need to specially mention it.

 

[AEWest]

One question to think about is how many people are ready to jump into mirrorless at the 5 level. Also most potential buyers are going to have pretty good cameras already, so another question is how happy they are with what they have now.

I do agree that 5D4 is a great stills camera that will last for many years and take great images. It is worth staying with this setup for several more years especially if he or she has a substantial EF lens investment.

But if a new 5D5 did in fact come out, I would be very hesitant on buying it at a high price given where the market is going.

 

[HarryFilm]

I read an article recently where test showed that some UV filters don't actually block UV, but I can't find the link to that. Roger from lensrentals did measure UV filters a while back, have a look at the results.

And on the topic of UV filters: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/05/yet-another-post-about-my-issues-with-uv-filters/

Different chemistries are required to block against the ENTIRE 10 nanometre to 400 nanometre Ultraviolet EM bands. It's best to add a stabilizer compound into the polycarbonate or acyrlic lens material itself AND THEN COAT the plastic lens with a thin film clear corundum which is ITSELF THEN coated with an anti-UV and anti-reflective coatings (i.e. Indium Tin Oxide) Those coatings never touch the plastic itself, they only bond with or are diffused into the corundum-based anti-scratch coating.

Organic UV filters:

UV filter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Inorganic UV filtering using micro-etchings of the corundum coating to waveguide or scatter UV bands INTO the corundum (which tends to fluoresce out to either side of 695 nm) is very possible these days BUT from there you need to used other filters to get that of that 695 nm band of emissions.

Again, I only know enough to be a tiny bit dangerous BUT I do have enough understanding to know that HIGH QUALITY plastic polycarbonate and acrylic lenses ARE possible to create cheaply enough on high-precision CNC machines that a company LIKE Sigma or Canon could make alternative lines of cheaper, lighter and FASTER still photo and video/cinema lenses!

Hopefully, Canon and Sigma ARE reading these posts and will at least TRY to find the right UV/IR stable Polycarbonate and/or Acrylic lens materials and the RIGHT type of easy-to-deposit anti-scratch and UV/IR absorbing and/or scattering corundum coatings to allow for much cheaper and LIGHTER lenses to be manufactured !!!

I'm obviously no optics expert nor a chemistry major, BUT I did point out a few starting points to look at!


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[navastronia]

One question to think about is how many people are ready to jump into mirrorless at the 5 level. Also most potential buyers are going to have pretty good cameras already, so another question is how happy they are with what they have now.

Maybe the way to sell it is accentuate the autofocus capabilities of mirrorless cameras? OOF images are the bane of wedding and event photographers, two demographics that use 5-series cameras.

 

[JBSF]

Very good. but Acryllic will go yellow in 3-5 years from new due to UV exposure in outdoors resulting in yellowish tint on images taken with your super lens. Harry. this is not a good idea..

Would this apply to a lens element? I live in a high-elevation, high-UV environment where skylights are ubiquitous. After several years (ten or more?) an acrylic skylight might yellow, and after decades it can fracture and even disintegrate. But acrylic in picture frames that do not get direct sunlight does not seem to change at all. I imagine that acrylic has potential for lenses, except perhaps for the front element, since it scratches very easily.