Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce

wsmith96

Advancing Amateur
Aug 17, 2012
949
43
Texas
neuroanatomist said:
exkeks said:
"EOS cameras sold up until June 2014, as well as EOS Rebel T7, EOS Rebel T6, EOS M6, EOS M5 and EOS M3, do not support AI.B full-auto."
(Source: https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/speedlite-470ex-ai)

Which excludes the 1DX, 5DIII, 6D, 7D, 70D from the new functionality... :/

So, here's a new flash designed to make it easier for beginners to use a flash, and here's new entry-level Rebel. But they won't work together. I'm with AvTvM on this one...stupid Canon.

The quote on the webpage says the following:

*As of February 25, 2018. EOS cameras sold up until June 2014, as well as EOS Rebel T7, EOS Rebel T6, EOS M6, EOS M5 and EOS M3, do not support "AI.B full-auto."

I'm betting there will be some firmware updates coming to the older cameras soon.
 

magarity

EOS RP
CR Pro
Feb 14, 2017
281
194
Memdroid said:
This thing looks remarkable. Only wished Canon finally abandoned the AA batteries for Li-ON ones.
Even uncontacted tribes in the Amazon stock AA batteries. If you want rechargeables get Eneloop AAs.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
26,049
4,613
wsmith96 said:
The quote on the webpage says the following:

*As of February 25, 2018. EOS cameras sold up until June 2014, as well as EOS Rebel T7, EOS Rebel T6, EOS M6, EOS M5 and EOS M3, do not support "AI.B full-auto."

I'm betting there will be some firmware updates coming to the older cameras soon.

The T7 isn't an 'older camera' – it was announced right along side the 470 flash.
 

Mark D5 TEAM II

Proud N0ink 0wnz0r / crApple iFruitcake H4t3r
Mar 5, 2013
1,387
144
Tleilax, Thalim Star System
After watching the videos, I am impressed. Even working pros like PJs & wedding/portraiture shooters using it can speed up & improve their flash shooting indoors with this. The AI.B Semi-auto Bounce mode can be used with ALL EOS film & digital SLRs & M-series MILCs. It's just a twist of the flash head and a press of the Angle Set button on the side, then a double-tap of the shutter button. Seriously, folks, watch this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U52BtwnxiaU
 

Maximilian

The dark side - I've been there
CR Pro
Nov 7, 2013
3,648
2,866
Germany
MRSP in Germany: 499,- €. Price will drop but right now that's equal to the 600EX II-RT street price. Meh!

Seeing the dimensions (74,6 x 130,4 x 105,1 mm, 385 g) beeing much closer to the 600EX II-RT (78,7 x 143,2 x 122,7 mm, 435 g) than to the 430EX III-RT (70,5 x 113,8 x 98,2 mm, 295 g) but the guide no. beeing much closer to the 430 I'd take RT over AI. Of course the AI mechanism needs space and weight, but I prefer either compactness or flash power.

To all those that say "Why not AI+RT?" I'd say I see the AI feature more important to an on-camera-one-flash solution while RT is for a multiple flash setup, where you also need and take more time to set them up properly (and you are more experienced, as well). So I can understand Canon's positioning quite well.

AI feature seems quite interesting, but I often have situations where I have no time for setting all up. It's one try without pre flash for calculation. Otherwise the moment is gone. So not my flash (and money saved ;) ).
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
Canon Rumors said:
This thing looks remarkable.

+1

I am natural light shooter principally by choice -- I don't shoot much portraiture. But when my flash comes out, though I get the result I want, my goodness does it take time to dial-in (either manually through iteration, through flash exposure comp, etc.). I find that process slow and little disconcerting for subjects who don't have the patience to sit still as I fumble around.

For the casual portraiture shooter, family dad shooting the kids/pets indoors, etc. if this works well it could be huge for the enthusiast crowd who are not professional speedlite whisperers.

- A
 

Khalai

In the absence of light, darknoise prevails...
May 13, 2014
714
0
36
Prague
But everyone on the interwebs say that Canon does not innovate. Oh, wait... :-D

Anyway, quite interesting concept. Yes, there is till market-segmentation from Canon at its "finest" but hey, this is the first of the many to come. I like my 600 RT anyday, but sometimes in difficult venues, this could speed up some guesswork of test shooting...
 

okaro

EOS 90D
Oct 10, 2015
134
15
neuroanatomist said:
exkeks said:
"EOS cameras sold up until June 2014, as well as EOS Rebel T7, EOS Rebel T6, EOS M6, EOS M5 and EOS M3, do not support AI.B full-auto."
(Source: https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/speedlite-470ex-ai)

Which excludes the 1DX, 5DIII, 6D, 7D, 70D from the new functionality... :/

So, here's a new flash designed to make it easier for beginners to use a flash, and here's new entry-level Rebel. But they won't work together. I'm with AvTvM on this one...stupid Canon.

Those who buy the cheapest DSLRs are not going to put $400 on a flash. They use the internal one.
 

MayaTlab

EOS 90D
Oct 6, 2015
193
82
ahsanford said:
if this works well

A lot resides in that "if". I'd like to try it (although at €500 for me it's worthless) just to see how intelligent the auto bounce feature is, but given what I've seen it's typically the sort of thing that could work decently well 75% of the time and completely mess up the remaining 25%. In which case the user won't understand why as they won't understand how bounce works.
If Canon wanted to make a beginner friendly flash, the first thing I'd look for would be to design the menus for human beings, not for aliens from the planet Zord, and maybe add a modeling light.
If it weren't for its price, if one wanted to learn flash photography with a speedlite, I'd rather direct them towards the Profoto A1 and a few videos.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
okaro said:
neuroanatomist said:
exkeks said:
"EOS cameras sold up until June 2014, as well as EOS Rebel T7, EOS Rebel T6, EOS M6, EOS M5 and EOS M3, do not support AI.B full-auto."
(Source: https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/speedlite-470ex-ai)

Which excludes the 1DX, 5DIII, 6D, 7D, 70D from the new functionality... :/

So, here's a new flash designed to make it easier for beginners to use a flash, and here's new entry-level Rebel. But they won't work together. I'm with AvTvM on this one...stupid Canon.

Those who buy the cheapest DSLRs are not going to put $400 on a flash. They use the internal one.

I think this may appeal to a lot of folks, but if you're an enthusiast who just stepped up from crop to a 6D1 or 6D2, you now need a flash and I'm guessing that camp of shooters would give this one a serious look.

- A
 

jdavidse

R5
CR Pro
Sep 13, 2012
113
133
Worst concept Canon has had for a while. First, to bounce you are losing a ton of power. A guide number 47 flash pales in comparison to 60 (600 series). Recharge wate will be much slower because of this. If you need to bounce, this is not the flash.

2nd, why no RT? As a wedding photographer, RT is absolutely essential. Combining bounce with RT is key to many peoples workflows.

So who is this for? A beginner who can’t afford a 600, yet can afford this $400 flash, who feels the $200 430EX II-RT is not good enough? Certainly not wedding or event photographers who need lots of power or need RT. Certainly not someone who would rather pay half for their first flash (the 430). So yeah, semi-rich beginners who don’t shoot events. Sounds legit, Canon.
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,679
4,112
Irving, Texas
Valvebounce said:
Hi Sharlin.
I’m sure cost is involved in the equation, but I’d guess mostly it is to protect its higher level equipment sales. I’m not sure why they would make it optical slave only if it is meant to be attached to the camera, unless it is because some crop bodies have optical master capabilities?
I will tell you one thing it would have to be to interest me, faster than I can do it myself!
I cannot abide waiting for automatic doors that I could open faster for myself, don’t get me wrong, I understand the benefit they give others, but do they have to go so slow when they open, slow closing for safety is fine.
Oops soapbox! Sorry :)

Cheers, Graham.

Sharlin said:
magarity said:
So this is really cool how it moves itself but it's a little puzzling there isn't RT. I get that its meant to be attached to the camera so it would be handy if it could be master to off camera flashes.

Probably to keep the price down and because this is aimed at beginner flash users and at situations where you simply don't or can't have off-camera flashes set up. For candid event photography this actually seems really useful.

Graham, the slowly opening doors just make your grand entrance that much more dramatic. ;)
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
jdavidse said:
2nd, why no RT? As a wedding photographer, RT is absolutely essential. Combining bounce with RT is key to many peoples workflows.

One would think you answered your own question. They aren't aiming this at pros. Pros can use the 600-level stuff.

I see the auto bounce as a neat trick for flash rookies or those that don't have the patience to bounce, chimp, offset/adjust, and shoot again -- this will not be a staple feature for working pros at an event.

I see this thing aimed at the FF-money-level enthusiasts who don't use a flash that often. The 6D-level camp of shooter immediately comes to mind with this. What's another $400 if you've already sunk $2k into a body and $2-3k into lenses?

- A
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
jdavidse said:
Worst concept Canon has had for a while. First, to bounce you are losing a ton of power. A guide number 47 flash pales in comparison to 60 (600 series). Recharge wate will be much slower because of this. If you need to bounce, this is not the flash.

2nd, why no RT? As a wedding photographer, RT is absolutely essential. Combining bounce with RT is key to many peoples workflows.

So who is this for? A beginner who can’t afford a 600, yet can afford this $400 flash, who feels the $200 430EX II-RT is not good enough? Certainly not wedding or event photographers who need lots of power or need RT. Certainly not someone who would rather pay half for their first flash (the 430). So yeah, semi-rich beginners who don’t shoot events. Sounds legit, Canon.

always great to hear from camera global marketing experts here in the CR forums.
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
ahsanford said:
I see the auto bounce as a neat trick for flash rookies or those that don't have the patience to bounce, chimp, offset/adjust, and shoot again -- this will not be a staple feature for working pros at an event.

the semi intelligent mode looks fantastic. automatically keeps your camera / speedlight bouncing even if you change camera orientation? that could be a huge timesaver even for pros,etc.
 

aceflibble

EOS RP
May 8, 2015
355
192
This would be a great product if it weren't for the price. £499 is the MSRP for the UK, so it's firmly outside the budget of beginners. (Who would of course be the ones to most benefit from this kind of system.) You're going to find very few professionals or serious enthusiast who will pay £499 for a smaller-than-average flashgun, too, regardless of the 'AI' functionality. (Which also is of dubious use; how many experienced shooters need that much help with bounce flash that they'd be willing to ditch their existing gear and pay a premium for a smaller flashgun?) Of course it also lacks some other pro requirements, further limiting the use for that market.

If the MSRP was more competitive, I could see this thing being huge. This is the beginner's dream flash and it could be worthwhile "might as well" for pros. But £499?

This feels like when Canon launched the 35mm f/2 IS. Great lens, utterly stupid price nobody was ever going to fall for. Once they got the price down to half, suddenly it had a market. I see the same happening with this flash. £499, it's DOA. In 12-18 months it'll be £300, and then it'll pick up steam. If they could bring it down to £250 then they've just gotten every beginner on board with Canon for this alone.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
rrcphoto said:
ahsanford said:
I see the auto bounce as a neat trick for flash rookies or those that don't have the patience to bounce, chimp, offset/adjust, and shoot again -- this will not be a staple feature for working pros at an event.

the semi intelligent mode looks fantastic. automatically keeps your camera / speedlight bouncing even if you change camera orientation? that could be a huge timesaver even for pros,etc.

In fairness, I dont want to be too heavy-handed and specific and say "At last! The flash only for enthusiast 6D2 users who are gunshy with speedlites has arrived!" But I do feel this feature is aimed more at the intermediate / enthusiast folks for a host of reasons:

1) See the video. If that flash head's speed was like a lens's focusing tech, this flash head motor looks more like STM than USM. ;D I think it might be too slow for a professional run and gun event shooter.

2) That motor isn't powered with good intentions -- battery life surely has to be impacted by this feature. That may deter pros who may be concerned about missing a shot due to changing out batteries (full disclosure: I am not one, so please set me straight if this is no biggie).

3) This new flash is missing quite a bit that a pro may currently be using today: see specs comparison here. If TDP is correct with this, the 470EX-AI is not sealed, it's (relatively) underpowered, and it lacks a host of accessories and creature comforts the bigger pro speedlites have.

I am not, however, saying pros won't use it at all. It's just that using it will represent a takeaway for professionals on some fronts that they may not like. But perhaps for some pros, this feature is worth those takeaways. We shall see.

- A
 

Random Orbits

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 14, 2012
2,455
331
aceflibble said:
This would be a great product if it weren't for the price. £499 is the MSRP for the UK, so it's firmly outside the budget of beginners. (Who would of course be the ones to most benefit from this kind of system.) You're going to find very few professionals or serious enthusiast who will pay £499 for a smaller-than-average flashgun, too, regardless of the 'AI' functionality. (Which also is of dubious use; how many experienced shooters need that much help with bounce flash that they'd be willing to ditch their existing gear and pay a premium for a smaller flashgun?) Of course it also lacks some other pro requirements, further limiting the use for that market.

If the MSRP was more competitive, I could see this thing being huge. This is the beginner's dream flash and it could be worthwhile "might as well" for pros. But £499?

This feels like when Canon launched the 35mm f/2 IS. Great lens, utterly stupid price nobody was ever going to fall for. Once they got the price down to half, suddenly it had a market. I see the same happening with this flash. £499, it's DOA. In 12-18 months it'll be £300, and then it'll pick up steam. If they could bring it down to £250 then they've just gotten every beginner on board with Canon for this alone.

Yes, the 35 f/2 IS, 28 f/2.8 IS, 24 f/2.8 IS, 6DII, 24-70 f/4 IS and to lesser extents the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II, 100-400 IS II, 24-70 f/2.8 II, etc. Ideally, Canon wants to be able to execute first degree price discrimination perfectly, but having an initial high price and letting the price fall as demand falls is one way to maximize profit. Give it a year or two.