Canon Attempts New Supertele Patents

tiggy@mac.com

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Several new catadioptric designs (commonly referred to as “mirror” lenses) appeared in a patent application to Japanese authorities, including a 1200mm f/8 and an 800mm f/5.6.
First called out in a post on An Image on a Sensor, the embodiments show typical “mirror lens” construction, but with a larger-than-typical number of lens groups and elements extending from the mirror optical tube, back toward the sensor.
This may imply a much higher level of aberration correction than is normal in this type of lens. Most catadioptric lenses built for cameras are attempts to get at large focal lengths as cheaply as possible, and the catadioptric design allows for more light gathering with less glass.
And they typically have less length, too. Because the mirror design causes the light to...

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calfoto

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I'm wondering if that would also be AF, possibly with additional ILIS?

The patent drawing does have a lens group labeled "Lis" - Lens Image Stabilization perhaps?

Lens group "Lfo" Lens Focus perhaps?
 
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AlanF

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I'm wondering if that would also be AF, possibly with additional ILIS?

The patent drawing does have a lens group labeled "Lis" - Lens Image Stabilization perhaps?

Lens group "Lfo" Lens Focus perhaps?
There is also a heading "Reflex lens with IS and an iris from CANON" so it does have IS.
 
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mxwphoto

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The 800mm f3.8 weighed 33lb. Wonder what a new f5.6 would weigh... Would have to be at most around 4-5lb to make sense as rf version is 6.9lb.
 

Stig Nygaard

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I haven't studied details from the sources, but at a first look, this looks very much like same patents as reported by Canon Rumors back in May 2021 ??? :

 

tiggy@mac.com

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I haven't studied details from the sources, but at a first look, this looks very much like same patents as reported by Canon Rumors back in May 2021 ??? :


Tig to Stig: that's a good find. I saw that too. This is a different set of patents, the biggest difference being that these new ones appear to be more an attempt at a higher-end image quality. Those earlier patent designs show almost no correction, and the "sea grass" graphs show very poor edge aberrations.
 
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Maximilian

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I wonder, if Canon can manage the typical trade offs of such a catadioptric design.
(bad contrast, low resolution to the edges, "halo" in the center, bad bokeh).
:unsure:
 
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2 cents

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It bothers me that resources are being used to design lenses like this...I don't know why, but it does. LOL
Yes, it bother me too. I'm sure these will be better but mirror lenses are notoriously fragile, fixed aperture, and ugly donut bokeh.

They had the brilliant EF400mm f5.6L. Light, superb optics, and affordable. The closes they have now is the 100-500mm zoom, which I'd always use on the tele end, unnecessarily heavier, more expensive. And f7.1.

Really wish they come up with the something like the Sony 200-600mm. Serious stuff but not costing as much as a sedan.
 

AlanF

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Yes, it bother me too. I'm sure these will be better but mirror lenses are notoriously fragile, fixed aperture, and ugly donut bokeh.

They had the brilliant EF400mm f5.6L. Light, superb optics, and affordable. The closes they have now is the 100-500mm zoom, which I'd always use on the tele end, unnecessarily heavier, more expensive. And f7.1.

Really wish they come up with the something like the Sony 200-600mm. Serious stuff but not costing as much as a sedan.
The EF 400mm f/5.6 L was not cheap when it was introduced some 25 years ago. The RF 100-500mm is in a different league in terms of its versatility. The EF 100-400mm L was a far more useful lens and pretty close optically, and the Mk II is in a different league. The RF 100-400mm is pretty close optically, half the weight and half the cost. I have had all of these lenses, and the 400/5.6 is the bottom of my personal list. And if you are worried about weight, the Sony 200-600mm is much heavier than the 100-500mm, and feels even heavier because of its length.
 
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scyrene

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I find it slightly amusing (bemusing?) that one of the commonest criticisms of Canon over the years has been their perceived 'lack of innovation' or conservatism, and yet when patents show them considering novel approaches, people say they should just offer what their competitors produce.
 
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Kit.

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Could those be for surveillance applications, where bokeh doesn't matter that much?
 
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Antono Refa

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It bothers me that resources are being used to design lenses like this...I don't know why, but it does. LOL
I think this is inevitable.

The compact cameras market is practically gone, and ILC camera market is shrinking quickly. Smartphone cameras are getting better, including focal length, e.g. Samsung's moon zoom on Galaxy S2x, though I'm not going to argue for the image quality*. One way to increase the pie is getting cheap small lenses that offers abilities not available till now, such as the RF 16mm which requires correction on a computer, and long focal mirror lenses.

I wouldn't bet too much money on this patent becoming a lens, but I understand the motivation.

* If anyone wants to compare, I can shoot the moon with an S21 on the weekend, or when its full on April 16th, and share the images.
 

AlanF

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I think this is inevitable.

The compact cameras market is practically gone, and ILC camera market is shrinking quickly. Smartphone cameras are getting better, including focal length, e.g. Samsung's moon zoom on Galaxy S2x, though I'm not going to argue for the image quality*. One way to increase the pie is getting cheap small lenses that offers abilities not available till now, such as the RF 16mm which requires correction on a computer, and long focal mirror lenses.

I wouldn't bet too much money on this patent becoming a lens, but I understand the motivation.

* If anyone wants to compare, I can shoot the moon with an S21 on the weekend, or when its full on April 16th, and share the images.
Better to shoot half moon as the shadows show up craters and mountains. Full moon is often featureless. Please shoot it.
 
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Del Paso

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Could those be for surveillance applications, where bokeh doesn't matter that much?
Trouble is you can see these catadioptric lenses from far away, mirrors reflect...
Surveillance, why not, but only if being visible doesn't matter. Definitely no lenses for spying activities... ;)