Canon EOS R100 specifications, which is possibly Canon’s next camera to be announced [CR1]

PhotoGenerous

R5/R6 + GAS
CR Pro
Apr 11, 2017
86
122
To me, the great thing about the R full frame system, especially the lenses, is that Canon added several great feature while newly designing old EF lenses. The UWA zooms got wider, we have F2 zoom lenses (and hopefully trinity at some point) the RF 100-500mm, the superlightweight tele prime lenses.

But, for the APS-C market Canon seems to buy shying away from R&D costs. So, the two RF-s are not innovative at all and lack new features or simply a lighter design or such. And now they basically release an M camera with RF-s mount. I don't think a lot people will opt for these cameras...

I personally think it is kind of sad...
I disagree with basically the whole premise of judging the EF-S line-up's innovation based on two kit lenses, and saying they aren't innovative. But at the same time I'm also pretty confident that they won't put too much of a push behind RF-S lenses as whole in the long run.

Seems a little premature to poo poo their EF-S lens design choice. You're talking about the two kit lenses. (And even then, technically, if you're comparing the RF 18-150mm to the EF counterpart, and not the EF-M version, the EF only goes to 135mm, so the RF version is "innovative" over the EF version in that it has longer reach. 1 out of 2 lenses, 50% of the released RF-S lenses, would meet your criteria of innovation.

With that said, the RF kit lens is also just a "non-innovative" 24-105 f4. And yes, Canon released a statement lens in the 28-70 f2, but they also released it side by side with a "non-innovative" 24-70 f2.8.

However, I also think your definition of innovation is too narrow. The combination of better optics, size, weight, IS (better IS in isolation, but also working in concert with IBIS), and focus distances are pretty big deals. And that's not even counting the fact that every RF lens has the innovation of having a control ring (even if for the cheaper lenses you have to choose between Focus or Control. It's still an option.)

Calling out minimum focus distance specifically, the EF-S 18-135 has a minimum focus distance of 15.4 inches, and the RF manages to go down to 6.7 inches. It's so a that level of so improved it now ranks a Macro designation, but that still a massive improvement. (The EF-M version is in between at 9.8 inches.)

Bumping into minimum focus distance issues is one of the first things I had to google when I first started learning photography.

I feel like just because there is a core, basic set of innovations that are expected... changes/improvements/additions that aren't usually reflected in the lens name... that it shouldn't then disqualify those improvements/additions from being considered innovation.

With all that said, using history of EF-S and EF-M lenses as a guide (which I think is pretty safe) I am glad that Canon is doing so much in adding to improvements into so many aspects of these lenses, because RF-S lenses will be few and far between. Here's to hoping we get an 17-55 2.8 RF equivalent at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

David - Sydney

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
1,556
1,331
www.flickr.com
You'd have to work really hard to buy a bad camera, at any price level. But if the idea is to convert smartphone users who want better results, let's be honest about how many of them won't understand why the new, "serious" camera and lenses they just paid $1-2k for don't approach the results they get by whipping out their iphone in 90% of situations, and how many of them will stick around for the 10k hour masterclass. 99% don't want to be photographers, they just want to take better pictures.
But everyone is already a photographer now unless you are referring to a photography being their paid employment.
You just need to see how many selfies someone takes to get the best shot. They are learning quickly about lighting, composition and taking multiple shots to get people looking at the right place with their eyes open etc.

Interesting stats at https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world
- 91% (7.3B) of people globally have a phone. 83% (6.7B) have a smartphone but not everyone can afford the latest iPhone 14 from USD800-1600! Second hand / recycled phones are actively being sold into other markets.
- Developed countries (~1.6B people) are most likely to buy more expensive phones. That leaves 6.3B left in developing countries.
- Critically, 75% of people in the top 10 developing countries don’t have a smartphone so there is still a lot of users to get a smart phone.
- 14% of the population cannot own a phone as they don't have access to electricity to charge it.

So... who are the target market for Rebels/M series? Does a R100 fit into a profitable demographic for:
- A serious photographer in some markets vs a second hand camera phone.
- Someone who wants to take better photos than a phone can take
There is no doubt that better phone features are selling new phones as users get better iOS features for free and a faster processor is unlikely to be a motivator now.

I saw a lot of wedding photographers in China that are also using Rebels... all about making money at the end of the day.
Cruise ship photographers are all using Rebels as well but had decent lighting setups. Selling photos is a good margin for them. Fun fact, cruise ships make ~30% of top line revenue from on-board sales (pre-covid/non-tickets).
 
Upvote 0
But everyone is already a photographer now unless you are referring to a photography being their paid employment.
You just need to see how many selfies someone takes to get the best shot. They are learning quickly about lighting, composition and taking multiple shots to get people looking at the right place with their eyes open etc.

Interesting stats at https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world
- 91% (7.3B) of people globally have a phone. 83% (6.7B) have a smartphone but not everyone can afford the latest iPhone 14 from USD800-1600! Second hand / recycled phones are actively being sold into other markets.
- Developed countries (~1.6B people) are most likely to buy more expensive phones. That leaves 6.3B left in developing countries.
- Critically, 75% of people in the top 10 developing countries don’t have a smartphone so there is still a lot of users to get a smart phone.
- 14% of the population cannot own a phone as they don't have access to electricity to charge it.

So... who are the target market for Rebels/M series? Does a R100 fit into a profitable demographic for:
- A serious photographer in some markets vs a second hand camera phone.
- Someone who wants to take better photos than a phone can take
There is no doubt that better phone features are selling new phones as users get better iOS features for free and a faster processor is unlikely to be a motivator now.

I saw a lot of wedding photographers in China that are also using Rebels... all about making money at the end of the day.
Cruise ship photographers are all using Rebels as well but had decent lighting setups. Selling photos is a good margin for them. Fun fact, cruise ships make ~30% of top line revenue from on-board sales (pre-covid/non-tickets).
In my limited travels, to Mexico and Brazil, I saw something very similar - Rebels are ubiquitous in the travel industry in Mexico. If you ever go on a boat (whale watching, drinking, etc) they'll offer to take pics of you against some regularly staged scenes, like sunsets, rock formations, etc. Same with organized scenic bus tours etc. And they get great results with those Rebels, after all that practice.

I met a wedding photographer in Brazil whose bread and butter is a 650D. Her ex stole her fav lens, the 18-135 usm, so all her work was with a nifty fifty. Replacing the zoom was a long term savings project. I happened to have the STM version on the trip and gifted it to her (I had picked it up for $80 a year before from a local guy who was liquidating to switch to mirrorless). When I got back home, I picked up a nano USM for $160 mint on ebay. We really are so spoiled with the used and refurb market in the US. Her dream camera was a 5DM3, which only a couple of the best photogs in her area used. When I told her that for the same price on a used 5D3 body she could get a refurb EOS R direct from Canon, she had no idea what mirrorless was (this is about a year ago), and totally dismissed my suggestion. In her universe, the 5D3 was the professional peak, and almost unattainable. Looking at her work, I saw some limitations, especially in low light, hand-holding a non-stabilized lens, but where I would just give up in frustration and blame it on the kit, she kept trying new compositions until she had something to offer the client.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Upvote 0

shadow

M50
Sep 20, 2022
89
23
I looked at Canon Global 2021 financials today. Of the 3,500 billion Yen total, Imaging sales were 653 Billion Yen or 19% of top line including Cameras and are 2nd most profitable behind their 55% Print segment which is 1,900 billion Yen. Looking into the Industrial and Medical they sure have some great R&D on AI, VR, AR Robotics and self driving eyeball sensor- a SPAD sensor for Time of flight (TOF) measuring so having in-house everything include chip fab is great for the usual long term thinking of Japanese Companies unlike many US or Multinationals looking short term from quarter to quarter. They really invest in R&D at least in the past, not sure what the stock buyback will do to their future R&D budget, but after reading pages of their Global website, they have some interesting technologies.

I noticed that their industrial super low light CMOS (4 million ISO) ML-105 cameras use the EF mount, not the RF, and as someone mentioned above also the Cinema line uses EF both have a sensor back focus the same as an SLR, right? No idea of the success of Industrial cameras demand or if to upgrade those also to RF as there are many, many other manufacturers going back to CCD's.

What I do not understand though is that why not keep the EF as with high end industrial and security cameras as they have no shutter, so the closer back focus "excuse" of the RF design seems strange other than the additional communication pins needed for firmware communication on the RF. Why didn't they keep the same EF mount so it was backwards compatible?, just have extra pins for RF advanced lens in the EF mount instead?
Why the M mount in the first place and not stick with EF?

I do not have an R lens to compare diameter and configuration. Maybe this topic has been covered here certainly before? Just asking.
 
Upvote 0

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
2,395
2,523
The Netherlands
It has options for both, yes in movie mode,half press or full,Mine is set for "Start/Stop mov rec., works fine also with external remote control switch.
Thank you for pointing this out! Now I can finally use the M6II to record video in the camera trap, the f/1.4 lens should help with AF in the dark.

IMG_2405.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

Skux

EOS RP
Feb 21, 2020
202
270
To me, the great thing about the R full frame system, especially the lenses, is that Canon added several great feature while newly designing old EF lenses. The UWA zooms got wider, we have F2 zoom lenses (and hopefully trinity at some point) the RF 100-500mm, the superlightweight tele prime lenses.

But, for the APS-C market Canon seems to buy shying away from R&D costs. So, the two RF-s are not innovative at all and lack new features or simply a lighter design or such. And now they basically release an M camera with RF-s mount. I don't think a lot people will opt for these cameras...

I personally think it is kind of sad...
Canon always have and will continue to treat APS-C like a second-class citizen, giving customers just enough to scrape by while dangling the full-frame carrot in front of them. It happened with EF-S (three prime lenses in over 20 years and nothing faster than f/2.8) and EF-M (only eight lenses, three primes) and now RF-S which released with a pitiable kit lens which manages to be slower and have a narrower zoom range than the EF-M equivalent.

Yeah it is a bit sad, but I ended up choosing full-frame anyway. For people serious about crop sensor kits, there's always Fujifilm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

lustyd

EOS M6 Mark II
May 4, 2022
99
140
You're looking at it wrong. Yes, three prime lenses in EF-s but full access to all EF lenses too. Same with M, the lenses were made to fit design criteria around size, but the camera could take EF lenses with a converter so didn't need more. That's not second class, that's full access to the whole range. Similarly they aren't in a hurry with R lenses, why would they be, there are hundreds of compatible lenses available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

EOS 4 Life

EOS 5D Mark IV
Sep 20, 2020
1,555
1,256
But everyone is already a photographer now unless you are referring to a photography being their paid employment.
Yeah, camera makers, such as Canon, only need to convert a fraction of smartphone camera users in order to have a viable business going forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

Rocky

EOS R
Jul 30, 2010
1,051
125
"Cruise ship photographers are all using Rebels as well but had decent lighting setups. Selling photos is a good margin for them. Fun fact, cruise ships make ~30% of top line revenue from on-board sales (pre-covid/non-tickets)."
It is a perfect tool for them. No need for "sharp" lens. They actually make the portrait slightly blur to hind the wrinkles the make customer happy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

EOS 4 Life

EOS 5D Mark IV
Sep 20, 2020
1,555
1,256
Upvote 0

David - Sydney

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
1,556
1,331
www.flickr.com
"Cruise ship photographers are all using Rebels as well but had decent lighting setups. Selling photos is a good margin for them. Fun fact, cruise ships make ~30% of top line revenue from on-board sales (pre-covid/non-tickets)."
It is a perfect tool for them. No need for "sharp" lens. They actually make the portrait slightly blur to hind the wrinkles the make customer happy.
Which is my point that sometimes we think that only the high end bodies/lenses make Canon profitable but there are lower level bodies/lenses that make complete sense to buy in certain markets.
 
Upvote 0

David - Sydney

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
1,556
1,331
www.flickr.com
We really are so spoiled with the used and refurb market in the US.
When I told her that for the same price on a used 5D3 body she could get a refurb EOS R direct from Canon,
As far as I know, the US is the only market where Canon sell refurbished body/lenses so it makes sense that she didn't understand how she could buy it that way.
LensRentals is amazing but very few markets are big enough to manage a reasonably priced rental service unfortunately.
Canon Australia tried a sharing platform called Kyoyu where owners could put their personal gear for rental with Canon Australia handling the insurance but it wasn't successful and was shut down. A description of it is still available though.
https://www.gadgetguy.com.au/kyoyu-canon-brings-camera-sharing-to-australia/

Her dream camera was a 5DM3, which only a couple of the best photogs in her area used.
I also remember looking longingly for a 5Diii as being an amazing camera to buy one day up from my 7D.
It took a while but I managed to save the money and get it.... quite a few years later and I then spent a lot more for my R mount kit!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

John Wilde

EOS RP
Jan 2, 2021
245
411
Which is my point that sometimes we think that only the high end bodies/lenses make Canon profitable but there are lower level bodies/lenses that make complete sense to buy in certain markets.
Also, first-time camera buyers generally want to start with something that's affordable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

David - Sydney

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
1,556
1,331
www.flickr.com
Also, first-time camera buyers generally want to start with something that's affordable.
Agreed but "affordable" is different in different countries.

I got a Canon film camera back in 1997 before we moved to China with a flash but the flash couldn't handle TTL so basically useless to a newbie at the time.
Then an APS film Elph camera for a long time.
IXUS 860 then Powershot S90/95/120 etc were then perfect for many years.

My wife got me a 7D/EF24-10/4L as a present prior to a Caribbean holiday which set the whole process on fire.
I would not expect that a 7D + L lens would be an affordable first DLSR though for most people.
 
Upvote 0

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
2,395
2,523
The Netherlands
Agreed but "affordable" is different in different countries.
[..]
I would not expect that a 7D + L lens would be an affordable first DLSR though for most people.
I agree, on introduction, the 7D had a bundle option for the EF24-104L mk1, which I bought to upgrade from a 20D. While that bundle was a good deal and the 7D was a lot of camera for the money, it was 3-4x the price of a rebel + EF-S 18-55 kit.
 
Upvote 0

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
27,914
7,995
I agree, on introduction, the 7D had a bundle option for the EF24-104L mk1, which I bought to upgrade from a 20D. While that bundle was a good deal and the 7D was a lot of camera for the money, it was 3-4x the price of a rebel + EF-S 18-55 kit.
I started with DSLRs in 2009, a few months before the 7D launched. It would have been outside of my self-imposed total budget of $2500, which I set because I wasn’t sure if photography would become a serious hobby for me (clearly, it did).

Knowing from my film SLR days two decades earlier that glass was more important than body, I bought the Rebel T1i/500D but skipped the kit lens, instead getting the EF-S 17-55/2.8 and the EF 85/1.8, along with a 430EX II flash and a Manfrotto carbon fiber tripod and ballhead to round out the budget.
 
Upvote 0