Canon EOS R5 records 4 hours of 4KHQ 30p to an external recorder, with a couple of simple tweaks

Pape

EOS RP
Dec 31, 2018
603
365
I wonder if card slot is place where heat just naturally gathers ,from battery and from inside camera.
Now when card is out ,heat sensor is disactivated?
 

bhf3737

---
CR Pro
Sep 9, 2015
672
1,528
Calgary, Canada
www.flickr.com
There are too many thread on this topic and I posted a similar message in the other thread.
CFexpress cards get hot. They need and have heatsink.That is why they have an on-die thermal sensor and SMART reading info from the card is available to the device firmware, similar to info from your computer hard drive. I think camera's firmware implements different levels of throttling to manage the heat generated for the device protection purpose.
It seems that when the CFExpress card is not in the camera, there is no sensor info from the card and the throttling function is off or rolls back to a default value (4 hours?) so the camera can record longer.
The throttling can be done in a proactive way or as a preset table. Based on the data we see regarding the remaining time counter, R5's firmware seems to have a preset table for thermal control, and if true, this is a rather crude implementation. This is the first second (first mirrorless) Canon's weather sealed body with CFexpress so less experience in developing fail-free heat management in the firmware may be the cause. The CFexpress cards in Cinema line are actively cooled and there is no problem there. The good news is that it is all manageable by firmware and a proactive heat management mechanism is pretty doable. My guess is that it will be addressed in the next firmware for R5.
 
Last edited:

Codebunny

Elil
Sep 5, 2018
961
1,024
Scotland
So just leave the card door open and clip heat sink fins on the end of the cards. Problem solved!

Or as these folks suggest, just take the card out. These record limits only affect the smallest minority of people that'll use a stills camera as a video camera, let alone a main video camera.
 

jayphotoworks

EOS RP
Aug 11, 2016
262
108
Consider also the price of CFExpress cards ($512GB = $600) vs a Ninja and 1TB SSD is not that much more.... and for that price you get better monitoring, professional tools for correctly exposing / managing color and better codecs for editing. It doesn't really add much more bulk but increases your flexibility massively. And you can always remove it and shoot internal if you want.

While I agree it increases flexibility, I don't agree that it doesn't add much more bulk. You are adding 1.3lbs to the top of the camera if you run a 750 2hr battery or 1.65lbs if you run a 3hr 970 battery. If you add a cage, arm and mount the monitor to the side, that's another 1 lb. In actuality, I always run my Ninja V and camera in a cage just so I can lock my HDMI cables and lock the SSD in so it doesn't pop out. All of those things can dump your shot if it happens while on the move. I've had HDMI cables catch on sliders before, etc.

Don't forget you also need to bring extra batteries just for the monitor and If you are shooting talking heads and need the runtime, you can't just take off the monitor anymore because you will run back into overheating. Lastly, if you then need to take the camera off sticks and move it to a gimbal, you can't just leave the monitor on top or on the side. You have to take off the monitor, rig it on the gimbal below and re-route your cables or you will have no way to balance it. The last issue can be handled with a separate body, but you also need a second monitor as well unless you can keep the thermal limitations in check or move the monitor back and forth.

I think certain styles of shooting can work with external recording, but it is a narrow window without accepting other compromises.
 

genriquez

EOS M50
Feb 5, 2019
41
60
If it's the CF cards then maybe instead of putting a fan on the back of the camera someone should make a replacement door with a fan/heat sink attached to it.
 

Bdbtoys

R5
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2020
413
297
If so, this is not a CF express problem, and it might point towards:
  • Canon is super conservative with it's firmware limits... to I don't know, limit risk of bricking something? And then somehow they failed to implement limits for this specific use case of no card + external recorder?

Just quoting a piece of the original post... I don't believe this bullet statement is the case because it did overheat eventually (so firmware did catch the temp change somewhere).
 
  • Like
Reactions: ahsanford

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,246
While I agree it increases flexibility, I don't agree that it doesn't add much more bulk. You are adding 1.3lbs to the top of the camera if you run a 750 2hr battery or 1.65lbs if you run a 3hr 970 battery. If you add a cage, arm and mount the monitor to the side, that's another 1 lb. In actuality, I always run my Ninja V and camera in a cage just so I can lock my HDMI cables and lock the SSD in so it doesn't pop out. All of those things can dump your shot if it happens while on the move. I've had HDMI cables catch on sliders before, etc.

Don't forget you also need to bring extra batteries just for the monitor and If you are shooting talking heads and need the runtime, you can't just take off the monitor anymore because you will run back into overheating. Lastly, if you then need to take the camera off sticks and move it to a gimbal, you can't just leave the monitor on top or on the side. You have to take off the monitor, rig it on the gimbal below and re-route your cables or you will have no way to balance it. The last issue can be handled with a separate body, but you also need a second monitor as well unless you can keep the thermal limitations in check or move the monitor back and forth.

I think certain styles of shooting can work with external recording, but it is a narrow window without accepting other compromises.
Imagine having an external recorder Inbuilt in the battery grip... problem solved. all that you mentioned. :)
 

armd

EOS M50
Aug 21, 2019
32
36
It's kind of an interesting exercise and for those who shoot video, it is a useful solution. For the rest of us mortals who mainly shoot stills an occasional short video takes, it's overkill. The only reason that I appreciate this contrived controversy is that hopefully it scares off enough potential buyers so I can eventually land an R5 body.
 
While I agree it increases flexibility, I don't agree that it doesn't add much more bulk. You are adding 1.3lbs to the top of the camera if you run a 750 2hr battery or 1.65lbs if you run a 3hr 970 battery. If you add a cage, arm and mount the monitor to the side, that's another 1 lb. In actuality, I always run my Ninja V and camera in a cage just so I can lock my HDMI cables and lock the SSD in so it doesn't pop out. All of those things can dump your shot if it happens while on the move. I've had HDMI cables catch on sliders before, etc.

Don't forget you also need to bring extra batteries just for the monitor and If you are shooting talking heads and need the runtime, you can't just take off the monitor anymore because you will run back into overheating. Lastly, if you then need to take the camera off sticks and move it to a gimbal, you can't just leave the monitor on top or on the side. You have to take off the monitor, rig it on the gimbal below and re-route your cables or you will have no way to balance it. The last issue can be handled with a separate body, but you also need a second monitor as well unless you can keep the thermal limitations in check or move the monitor back and forth.

I think certain styles of shooting can work with external recording, but it is a narrow window without accepting other compromises.
Thanks for the practical info from someone who uses it.

When you use the atomos, or any HDMI out on a Canon, does it switch off the evf and back display, ie you have to use the atomos to monitor what you’re recording?
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,246
The camera cannot output video with the door open. The switch would need to be disabled.
just for a quick experiment, I would sticky tape the pin over to see if recording To card internally with the battery compartment door open would help addressing overheating issue. I don’t have access to R5 so cannot verify.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noms78

Whowe

EOS 90D
Mar 4, 2020
121
128
Good points!

I thing it won't be point 1 since batteries do get some head but in normal cases do not overhead, they are nowadays quite efficient with high currents.

I thing it could be point 3, as I start to believe the underestimated the head generate from card and card slot during writing since there where only preproduction? cards available at the time they developt the camera. And now it's simply to late. Next version of the R5 camera will have heat sinks and thermal conductive paste for passive cooling at the right place.
The problem seams to be too big for a quick hack but easy to solve for the next generation. The firmware update may double the record time but that's it.
But doubling the record time would be huge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stu_bert
It's kind of an interesting exercise and for those who shoot video, it is a useful solution. For the rest of us mortals who mainly shoot stills an occasional short video takes, it's overkill. The only reason that I appreciate this contrived controversy is that hopefully it scares off enough potential buyers so I can eventually land an R5 body.
Err don’t you want to encourage sales for Canon - helps them develop new products.

Production capacity is likely impacted by Covid as the news item on canonnews said. I think we’ll continue to get lower volumes until Canon can get everything back to something close to normal or the new normal....

Given Canon recent results, they want to build as many of these as the demand needs (pre orders must give them a good idea). Whether they can reduce capacity on other lines to boost r5/r6 I don’t know. But finding ways to solve the video issues will sell more and thus help fund future bodies...
 

AlP

EOS R5
CR Pro
Sep 5, 2018
59
98
There are too many thread on this topic and I posted a similar message in the other thread.
CFexpress cards get hot. They need and have heatsink.That is why they have an on-die thermal sensor and SMART reading info from the card is available to the device firmware, similar to info from your computer hard drive. I think camera's firmware implements different levels of throttling to manage the heat generated for the device protection purpose.
It seems that when the CFExpress card is not in the camera, there is no sensor info from the card and the throttling function is off or rolls back to a default value (4 hours?) so the camera can record longer.
The throttling can be done in a proactive way or as a preset table. Based on the data we see regarding the remaining time counter, R5's firmware seems to have a preset table for thermal control, and if true, this is a rather crude implementation. This is the first Canon's weather sealed body with CFexpress so less experience in developing fail-free heat management in the firmware may be the cause. The CFexpress cards in Cinema line are actively cooled and there is no problem there. The good news is that it is all manageable by firmware and a proactive heat management mechanism is pretty doable. My guess is that it will be addressed in the next firmware for R5.

If CFexpress cards get very hot (which I am not questioning), that heat will nicely couple to the processor, which is very close to the card slot and happens to be surrounded by memory ICs, which will also heat up:
R5 main PCB right small.png

(from EOSHD, and I am assuming that the image is an actual R5 main PCB image).
Since there are various buttons and a dial on top of the card cage attached to the back panel of the camera, the card slot is probably not thermally connected to it as that would be mechanically difficult to do. So no way to get the heat away except through the PCB.