Canon EOS R8 will likely be available in late April

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Thee recently announced Canon EOS R8 full-frame camera is reportedly going to be available starting on April 18, 2023. According to Newswitch in Japan, initial production for the Canon EOS R8 will be 11,000 units a month. Canon will release the EOS R8=Photo full-frame mirrorless camera in late April. The weight has been reduced to about

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11,000 per month does not sound a lot. Porsche for example produces 25,000 cars per month. You would think that a Porsche should be much more rare than an entry level full frame camera.

We're in the off season. Peak season would be the December quarter.

What I found odd is that Canon is disclosing monthly production numbers. I do not recall Canon or any of their rivals making such disclosures before.

It has been 8 months since I made inquiries and there is a backlog of Porsche orders.

To provide everyone perspective... these are the total CIPA annual worldwide shipping numbers specific to SLR & Mirrorless of all brands that are CIPA members.
Year​
2017
2018
2019
2020
2021
2022
Total SLR & Mirrorless​
11,675,689​
10,759,797​
8,461,490​
5,307,649​
5,348,271​
5,926,733​
SLR​
7,595,708​
6,620,999​
4,504,987​
2,374,569​
2,241,772​
1,853,222​
Mirrorless​
4,079,981​
4,138,798​
3,956,503​
2,933,080​
3,106,499​
4,073,511​
% SLR​
65.06%​
61.53%​
53.24%​
44.74%​
41.92%​
31.27%​
% Mirroless​
34.94%​
38.47%​
46.76%​
55.26%​
58.08%​
68.73%​

2022 Canon Japan's financials point to 2.86 million units bodies shipped for that year.

Canon's over 48% of all camera bodies? This makes Canon #1 worldwide. I think so long they maintain those numbers while all other brands contract then I can live with that. Will we be seeing consolidation from smaller brands like Minolta with Sony or Ricoh buying Pentax?

What is the market share of full frame vs APS-C image sensors regardless of brand or system? I'd use the Pareto Principle of 20% full frame vs 80% APS-C but with consumers and some enthusiasts preferring smartphones may make the ratio not that applicable anymore.

So do we use the number of ~31% APS-C & ~69% full frame?

I know sales to working photographers and organizations like photo agencies have held steady. If the Photo agency has 1 dozen photogs on staff they will need 1 dozen camera setups assigned to them with specialty lenses like super teles like the RF 1200mm being shared per country or per region.
 
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11,000 per month does not sound a lot. Porsche for example produces 25,000 cars per month. You would think that a Porsche should be much more rare than an entry level full frame camera.
Porsche produces only a few car models. In addition to the R8, Canon also produces the R5, R6, R6ll,R3, R7, R50, R10...... and several DSLR models are still in production. Let's not forget the huge range of lenses. It is a manufacture of very fine electronics and optics. It requires great precision and puts a different strain on production facilities.
 
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Porsche produces only a few car models. In addition to the R8, Canon also produces the R5, R6, R6ll,R3, R7, R50, R10...... and several DSLR models are still in production. Let's not forget the huge range of lenses. It is a manufacture of very fine electronics and optics. It requires great precision and puts a different strain on production facilities.
In addition, Canon is still selling off DSLR stock and the RP/ R stock is selling at a very competitive price point now. RP is 850-950 € and the R sells for 1.299 €. For people who walk into a store looking for a FF model, those prices are super intriguing compared to the R8.
 
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This happens with so many cameras. Many here always emphasize that manufacturers to an extensive market analysis before they come up with a new camera. I wonder why they so often produce a much too small number. Many potential customers might not wait, but instead choose another brand.
Making too many is a much bigger problem than making too few.
They can always up production later.
 
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koenkooi

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This happens with so many cameras. Many here always emphasize that manufacturers to an extensive market analysis before they come up with a new camera. I wonder why they so often produce a much too small number. Many potential customers might not wait, but instead choose another brand.
In the case where supply catches up with demand after a few months, what percentage of people decide to pick a different brand versus a different model or just waiting?

I can imagine first time buyers, with a deadline for a vacation/wedding/birth, not wanting to wait for backorders. But without a deadline, how much delay would cause a large portion to decide on a different brand? I don't mean that as a rhetorical question, I genuinely wonder where that tipping point is.

Personally, I do a lot of research into the available options, hunt down neighbours/friends/family with similar needs and check on forums to see how long $brand has been dooooooooomed already. For most things, there's such a clear winner that waiting a few months isn't an issue for me. For deadlines like a vacation, I haven't had a something required go on backorder in a long time, so my R7 preorder landing on a batch a few months after the original batch wasn't an issue. However, it was annoying that it arrived at the store while I was on my way to my vacation destination. So my direct need was gone and I decided not to buy anything :) The worst thing was realizing, in hindsight, that the camera had been at the store when I drove past it on the way to the ferry!

Let's see how the R8 timing works out this year. And I'll give the store a call before driving past it again :)
 
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I can imagine first time buyers, with a deadline for a vacation/wedding/birth, not wanting to wait for backorders.
I know from other forums that the vacation thing is a real thing but I doubt very many people are going to preorder a camera and hope to get it before vacation.
I would expect for most people to buy a well-stocked camera.
That demand would be near impossible to gauge.
It does fit here though as the R8 seems like a great travel camera.
I could see cross-shopping between the RP, R8, and a7C.
 
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neuroanatomist

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I know from other forums that the vacation thing is a real thing but I doubt very many people are going to preorder a camera and hope to get it before vacation.
Agreed, though I’m sure some do. Case in point, I preordered the R8 hoping to get it before an early summer trip. But I don’t need it for that trip, I have the R3. As I’ve stated, I’m still undecided on whether or not I’ll keep the preorder. I probably will, if the R8 will arrive several weeks before my trip.

I think it unwise to take a brand new camera on a trip – best to use it for a while to make sure it’s not a lemon, and to learn the controls and have time to configure the camera.

Similarly, I may get an underwater housing for my M6II, and if so I’ll get that soon because that will require far more practice than a new camera layout.
 
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koenkooi

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Agreed, though I’m sure some do. Case in point, I preordered the R8 hoping to get it before an early summer trip. But I don’t need it for that trip, I have the R3. As I’ve stated, I’m still undecided on whether or not I’ll keep the preorder. I probably will, if the R8 will arrive several weeks before my trip.

I think it unwise to take a brand new camera on a trip – best to use it for a while to make sure it’s not a lemon, and to learn the controls and have time to configure the camera.

Similarly, I may get an underwater housing for my M6II, and if so I’ll get that soon because that will require far more practice than a new camera layout.
That was exactly my train of thought as well, but with an R5, not an R3 :)

And now you have me looking at underwater housings for my M6II as well, the kids very much enjoyed the tidal flats last year! Wow, those are not cheap, like buy 3 GoPros instead kind of pricing.
 
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neuroanatomist

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And now you have me looking at underwater housings for my M6II as well, the kids very much enjoyed the tidal flats last year!
We will be doing some snorkeling and scuba diving on this trip. It's been a long time since I've been diving, the last time I used a disposable underwater film camera. I was initially considering a high end P&S like the G1X III with a housing (Canon offers one, but a cursory look suggests others are better). The problem is that such a camera would not really replace my M6II for travel because 24mm FF FoV is not wide enough, especially since the M11-22 is my most-used lens on trips. That led me to look at housings for the M6II. Ikelite makes one, with the port(s), strobe and TTL kit it comes out to about the price of the R8.
 
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neuroanatomist

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I was initially considering a high end P&S like the G1X III with a housing (Canon offers one, but a cursory look suggests others are better). The problem is that such a camera would not really replace my M6II for travel because 24mm FF FoV is not wide enough, especially since the M11-22 is my most-used lens on trips. That led me to look at housings for the M6II. Ikelite makes one, with the port(s), strobe and TTL kit it comes out to about the price of the R8.
Thinking a little more about this, I started wondering about a housing for the other cameras I'll be bringing – the ones on my iPhone 14 Pro. I'm now strongly considering a SeaLife setup with the smartphone case, dual tray and a pair of 3000-lumen lights that will allow me to shoot both stills and video.
 
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bbasiaga

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In the case where supply catches up with demand after a few months, what percentage of people decide to pick a different brand versus a different model or just waiting?

I can imagine first time buyers, with a deadline for a vacation/wedding/birth, not wanting to wait for backorders. But without a deadline, how much delay would cause a large portion to decide on a different brand? I don't mean that as a rhetorical question, I genuinely wonder where that tipping point is.

Personally, I do a lot of research into the available options, hunt down neighbours/friends/family with similar needs and check on forums to see how long $brand has been dooooooooomed already. For most things, there's such a clear winner that waiting a few months isn't an issue for me. For deadlines like a vacation, I haven't had a something required go on backorder in a long time, so my R7 preorder landing on a batch a few months after the original batch wasn't an issue. However, it was annoying that it arrived at the store while I was on my way to my vacation destination. So my direct need was gone and I decided not to buy anything :) The worst thing was realizing, in hindsight, that the camera had been at the store when I drove past it on the way to the ferry!

Let's see how the R8 timing works out this year. And I'll give the store a call before driving past it again :)
I think that demographic of buyer has shrunk a lot, and I don't think the R8 was for them anyway. I think they were the type that walked in to best buy or costco (or amazon) and look at those rebel kits with the lens, bag etc - ready to go vacation cam. Canon's marketing was being there in volume at competitive price points. Now Canon finds these folks by paying Amazon for preferential ranking on search results.

A few forum dwellers may be 'forced' to switch to Sony because canon delayed the R8 beyond what they thought was reasonable, but I don't think that number approaches 11,000 per month.

I think those committed to the canon eco system looking for this camera will wait (and complain, as would I) that its taking longer than they want. Or upgrade to an R6 or R6II, or an R7 if its available and they weren't sure on the reach issue.

-Brian
 
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SHAMwow

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I think that demographic of buyer has shrunk a lot, and I don't think the R8 was for them anyway. I think they were the type that walked in to best buy or costco (or amazon) and look at those rebel kits with the lens, bag etc - ready to go vacation cam. Canon's marketing was being there in volume at competitive price points. Now Canon finds these folks by paying Amazon for preferential ranking on search results.

A few forum dwellers may be 'forced' to switch to Sony because canon delayed the R8 beyond what they thought was reasonable, but I don't think that number approaches 11,000 per month.

I think those committed to the canon eco system looking for this camera will wait (and complain, as would I) that its taking longer than they want. Or upgrade to an R6 or R6II, or an R7 if its available and they weren't sure on the reach issue.

-Brian
Who on a forum was waiting for the R8? I never get that angle. IMO there's TOO much going on in the Canon R lineup.
 
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neuroanatomist

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I think those committed to the canon eco system looking for this camera will wait (and complain, as would I) that its taking longer than they want.
In recent years, very few new cameras/lenses/flashes have been 'in stock' at major retailers when they first started shipping. The past couple of years, it's typically been several months before supply surpassed demand and retailers had stock ready to ship. The bottom line is that if you're committed to the Canon ecosystem and want a particular camera/lens/flash, you should be aware that if you want it as soon as possible after release, you should preorder it as soon as orders go live.

As I've mentioned, when the R3 launched preorders for B&H went live at 6a ET. I ordered before 7a and got mine from the first allotment. People who ordered after ~9:30a did not, and the second allotment did not arrive to B&H for several weeks.

Given the lead times for these products, there is plenty of time to cancel a preorder if you change your mind as more information comes out, or even return the item unopened after you receive it. So, my advice is that if you're interested in a particular item just order it when the preorder goes live, and if you're quick you'll likely not have to wait at all. I preordered the EL-5 flash when the button went live, and I did the same with the R8. No question that I'll keep the EL-5 (which is supposed to start shipping later this month). I'm still undecided on the R8.
 
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Who on a forum was waiting for the R8? I never get that angle. IMO there's TOO much going on in the Canon R lineup.
Well, I think the consensus a year or 2 back was that the the R range was too small, and that bodies such as the EOS R and RP were stopgaps that needed to be replaced. And that Canon was being too slow etc in doing so. The more recent bodies - which have certainly come in a flurry! - are either replacements for those FF cameras, or a move into the APS-C space, being the replacements for the 7D II, the xxDs and the M series. They make sense when looked at that way.
 
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