Canon Looking Into a New Mount System

[Canon Rumors]

<p>According to an interview with Mr Makoto Sakaeta Masaya, the managing director of Canon Image Communication Business Division. Canon is exploring the possibility of a new lens mount. I suspect its application would be for a full frame mirrorless system of some kind.</p>
<p><strong><a href="https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/interview/20140918_667456.html" target="_blank">Read the Interview</a> (Google Translated)</strong></p>
<p>Source: [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/mirrorless.html" target="_blank">NL</a>] via [<a href="https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/interview/20140918_667456.html" target="_blank">DCW</a>]</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[docsmith]

When I first saw this rumor I assumed a smaller sensor. But a FF sensor? Trying to take advantage of of the decreased flange distance with mirrorless? I imagine that could allow for a decrease in the size of the optical elements.

I have to admit, the thought of a new mount that could someday make my EF gear less valuable is terrifying. Considering I am now mostly set with EF gear, let's hope it still has 2 generations of bodies that work with it.

 

[Woody]

I look at the size and weight of the Sony FE 70-200 f/4 OSS lens designed for their mirrorless A7 family, and I shudder. What's the point of going mirrorless if the telephoto lenses don't shrink in size and weight?

I think I will like to stick to OVF. Thank you very much.

 

[Don Haines]

Whoa!

All those EF, EF-S (and EF-M?) lenses may be about to become dinosaurs like the FD did back in the 80s. I wonder what the perceived design flaw is? Or how does it need to be improved?

But surely if they're looking at a new mount system then they're also looking at a new style of camera to mount it on, no?

I can see it being something similar to with the EF-M, where you can still use your legacy glass if you have the adaptor mounted to give you the same flange distance....

 

[IsaacImage]

Hopefully it's going to be a -Medium format / Full frame mount.

 

[Viggo]

Replace all three other with one new, Well ok, but please don't be stupid and add a forth, stupid stupid stupid...

 

[MintChocs]

A new mount means more profit for Canon(and if there is one thing you can be sure of, that is Canon always maximises profit), you would have to buy new lenses plus new cameras. They would more than likely make it extremely difficult for third party lens manufacturers to produce lenses for it.

 

[moreorless]

Hopefully it's going to be a -Medium format / Full frame mount.

That was the first thing that came to mind for me, that Sony CMOS MF sensor does seem to make it more likely that another big player(Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc) might give MF a try which could well have Canon looking to respond.

If it were a FF mirrorless mount(can the EF-M mount take FF? I remember seeing some analysis that it could) my guess would be that Canon would come up with something similar to the EF-M setup at the moment. Maybe a body that offers a bit more control but generally a system aimed a keeping things small with a handful of compact lenses rather than a full system which would be kept for DSLR's.

One thing I'm starting to wonder as well is whether the cheap EOS M stock in the west isn't just as was first suspected a case of Canon selling unwanted product but rather a direct plan to devalue the mirrorless market? how long has it been since the big EOS M price drops? almost a year? I can see the logic to doing this as it avoids pushing DSLR prices too low whilst Canon don't have to recoup a relatively small investement(by the standard of other companies) in mirrorless. Could they try something similar with FF? introduce a basic beyond below the 6D.

 

[Phenix205]

Good step forward. The M system is a total flop.

 

[fox40phil]

A mirroless fullframe camera would be so nice! please with a EF adapter with AF.

 

[moreorless]

Good step forward. The M system is a total flop.

2nd best selling mirrorless camera in Japan last year if I remember correctly, significant seller in the west at its lower price.

 

[Bob Howland]

According to an interview with Mr Makoto Sakaeta Masaya, the managing director of Canon Image Communication Business Division. Canon is exploring the possibility of a new lens mount. I suspect its application would be for a full frame mirrorless system of some kind.

As somebody who lived through the Canon FD to EF mount transition, I would be very surprised if the new mount was for a FF mirrorless system that was incompatible with tens of millions of EF lenses. I can, however, see them reducing the sensor to flange distance to 22-24mm and introducing a series of compatible lenses as well as an adapter to use existing lenses. However, the interview mentioned new communications protocols. Communications are largely a firmware function although it remains to be seen if existing lenses can be reprogrammed to that extent.

The M-mount, with a 58mm throat diameter, is unfortunately not that much smaller than the EF mount. The MFT mount, on the other hand, has a 38mm throat diameter and the NX system a 42mm throat diameter. If Canon wants to imitate these systems then, yes, they might introduce a smaller lens mount.

 

[Maximilian]

WOW!

It seems that finally the big heavy dinosaur is starting to move.
The only thing I can interpret into this rumor is, that they needed to see the success of Sony on FF mirrorless to understand that the customer have already seen the advantages in body and lens size as well as easier and more performant optical design.
If they'll also prevent some EF adaptor for the old lenses to make the system change easier for the current Canon DSLR owners I think the finally did understand the desire of a lot of people in the market.

But even if this is true I still see some time to pass until the system is worth a closer look.
Not because of performant bodies but because of a system with some really performant lenses.
But an EF adaptor surely would help here. Although the size advantage would become irrelevant then.

 

[Maximilian]

I wonder what the perceived design flaw is? Or how does it need to be improved?

I do not see any kind of design flaw with the actual mounts. Except for EOS M which is not designed for FF.
(That was really a flaw, combined with that possible decision now)

And the improvement is easy to see:
FF mirrorless allows a shorter distance between lens and focus plane.
Therefore you no longer need that retro focus. The optics becomes easier to design and you'll get a design/size advantage.
With adaptor you still have the possibility to use old EF lenses, like on an EOS M or like Olys MFT system (M Zuiko) with the old FT Zuiko lenses.

Pretty exactly what I praise since I understood the principle of mirrorless systems.
But I wanted FF and I do not want a Sony FF. (But that's my personal taste).

 

[LDS]

What's the point of going mirrorless if the telephoto lenses don't shrink in size and weight?

Please explain how they could when the laws of optics dictates lens size and distance for a given image circle, focal length and maximum aperture. Sure, some advance in optics like diffractive lens can help to reduce size and weight - but unless you can change light itself, there isn't much you can do.

A mirrorless camera may be smaller because you can remove the pentaprism, and the mirror, but its lenses size will still be a function of the sensor size.

 

[Bob Howland]

According to Neuro, who presumably measured the appropriate cameras, the throat (inner) diameter of the EOS-M mount is 43mm while the EF throat diameter is 51mm. The 58mm figure is apparently for the outside of the mount, which could vary from camera to camera.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19596.msg369987#msg369987

 

[SPKoko]

can the EF-M mount take FF? I remember seeing some analysis that it could

I have also seen some discussions about that. The EOS M review in dpreview says:

The EF-M mount is 58mm in diameter, with a flange distance of 18mm from the bayonet to the sensor. As the image above clearly shows it's matched specifically to the APS-C sensor size. So don't expect a future full frame EF-M mount camera - it's not going to happen.

But I believe that it is possible. If you review the table of Lens Monts in Wikipedia, you will see that the Sony E-Mount has a Thread Diameter of 46.1 mm and a Flange Focal Distance of 18mm. The EF-M mount, with the same Flange Focal Distance and a wider (58mm) Thread Diameter should be even more capable of hosting a Full Frame sensor...

 

[moreorless]

The M-mount, with a 58mm throat diameter, is unfortunately not that much smaller than the EF mount. The MFT mount, on the other hand, has a 38mm throat diameter and the NX system a 42mm throat diameter. If Canon wants to imitate these systems then, yes, they might introduce a smaller lens mount.

I wonder actually whether the reverse might be true for a FF mirrorless system. Look at this shot of the internals of the RX1 lens...

That's one heck of a big rear element(looks too large to fit in a regular E-mount), I'm no optics expert but I wonder whether its there to help deal with the issue of extreme light angles hitting the sensor? certainly the RX1 lens seems to be more compact for its specs than any of the FE lenses(the 35mm f/2.8 is about the same size but a stop slower with worse macro ability, the new 35mm 1.4 far larger).

So perhaps whilst it may technically be possible to fit FF coverage into an EF-M lens its actually a better option to go with something that has a larger mount diameter to allow for a big correcting rear element and so smaller lenses?

m43 might have a smaller mount size but relative to the sensor size its actually a lot larger than the the Sony FE system.

 

[mirrorless]

Eos M-Mount inner Diameter is 46mm.. Sony E-mount is about the same.

Canon Eos-M is actually a pretty good camera. Lenses are very good compared to price. But Eos-M should have viewfinder and AF could be little faster. Shutter speed- and exp compensation disks would be nice too ...

I hope Canon will make new (more pro) Eos-M body.. Photokina was disappointing from that perspective

 

[DRR]

Here is my initial, (fabricated) roadmap of what I think Canon will do. Keep in mind this is pure speculation but it's fun to wonder

First, they are going to move all Rebels and lower end SLRs to mirrorless technology. They won't be the small mirrorless cameras like we see today, but rather, mirrorless technology in a larger, comfortable, camera, with an APS-C sensor. Think of something the size of a Rebel of today, but thinner, since we don't need the mirror box anymore. "Full size" mirrorless. These cameras will use the .... EF-M mount. That's right, Canon's bastard system will eventually become its standard. Of course we know EF-M can retain full EF and EF-S compatibility with an adapter so that won't be an issue at all. It will also give Canon an easy way to move beyond EF and EF-S while maintaining its stable of EF lenses, which is the system's primary selling point.

They will cease making EF-S lenses in favor of the EF-M. By standardizing on EF-M for APS-C, they can create two very distinct lines of cameras - an SLR-style (but thinner) line for mass consumption (this would effectively replace the Rebel line, and would sell great in the US/Europe) and then a much smaller, MILC line (that will sell great in Asia, and replaces the EOS-M). This gives Canon two camera lines for two very distinct world markets, but they have the benefit of sharing the same mount,

For semi-pro and some pro applications, that is where we will see the new mount, for FF mirrorless, with a reduced flange distance from EF/EF-S. Let's call it, EF-X. EF-X will be a FF mirrorless mount, enabling the 5D Mark V and the 6D Mark III to use the new EF-X lenses and also, with an adapter (like EF-M,) will allow full backward compatibility with existing EF/EF-S lenses. So you might buy a FF Mirrorless 6D Mark III with a kit 20-135mm f/4 IS lens in an EF-X mount, but with an adapter, you would also be able to retain full compatibility with your existing L glass with no optical penalty.

Canon will, for a long time, still retain a line of pro cameras with a mirror box with a full EF mount, but as progress marches on, this will be sunsetted as the EF-M and EF-X mounts gain momentum. This is similar to how they transitioned from film bodies to digital bodies. You can still buy a EOS 1v brand new if you like, I expect they will maintain cameras with native EF mounts for a while.

So in the future I can see them transitioning to

Consumer line - New "Rebels" APS-C with EF-M mount in larger form factor, full EF/EF-S compatability with adapter

Consumer mirrorless - New "EOS-M" APS-C with EF-M mount in small form factor, full EF/EF-S compatability with adapter

Pro line - New FF Mirrorless with EF-X mount in larger form factor, full EF/EF-S compatibility with adapter

Legacy line - DSLR with mirrorbox with EF mount

Just my opinion. Don't take it too seriously!