Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R system

[Kit.]

Has anyone looked at high ISO performance yet?

You can be sure that it is the same as of 5D4.

Maybe slightly better denoising in in-camera JPEGs.

 

[MayaTlab]

oh lol BG-E22 is only 490$ and 590€
Canon just set new records in prices for the R lineup

I'm finding lower prices, such as 330 euros. Still ridiculous .

 

[miketcool]

The more I think about it the more I wonder how perfect this camera could have been without the crop in 4K video.
However, Magic Lantern is working on a solution to bring full-sensor readout to 5D Mark IV. If this is the case, then couldn't Canon potentially fix the crop issue via a future firmware update?

No, and thank God Canon won’t use the entire sensor.

I’m tired of reading about the crop factor. It’s a non-issue that has become an issue in the “spec wars”. 4K cinema sensors are only around 12 megapixels. The EOS R is a stills camera. If you want high resolution stills, you use a massive sensor that has an effective video resolution of 8K. With that much data, your camera would cook trying to process a video stream.

A few Sony A series cameras allow a full sensor readout where the processor either compresses info, or samples a few pixels instead of all of them. This leaves you with video that is noisy and not sharp. It’s not turned on by default and Sony sets a 1.5x crop factor for video. Even at 1.5x crop, Sony is oversampling to 5k and bringing you slightly lossy video to a 4K codec at a rate of 8-bits.

The EOS R is cropping to 1.7x and using the least oversampling, the most direct sensor data output, and the highest data rate. This means you get HIGHER QUALITY VIDEO in this format. Canon has a successful series of Cine cameras because image matters, not silly spec sheets argued on Internet forums.

Don’t believe me? Look up the noise you get on the “uncropped” Sony mirroless cameras. It’s a mess. Why do you think it’s easy for Panasonic to output higher frame rates on a 4/3rds sensor? It has less processing to do. We live with the crop because these cameras are used primarily for stills. If you want a camera without a rolling shutter, higher color output, and less artifacts; buy a cine camera with no crop and a much lower pixel resolution sensor.

 

[Deleted member 379512]

It's definitely for video people. It has all the features (except full frame 4k), and more that people kept complaining were not in the 5D IV at launch. The 5D4, and 1D Series are still the heavy hitting in the field photography Cameras. The better weather sealing on them and all that. More rugged. A lot more breakable parts on the R. It's definitely priced to compete in the video market. Specially against Panasonic, but Sony as well. The advantage for Canon is that a lot of video people that went over to Sony and the Panasonic GH5s were still using Canon glass on adaptors, and Canon knows that. They have a decent chance at luring many of them back in, especially with Canon Log, DPAF, Canon color, and all those other Canon specific goodies.

I think I fit into that category - using Sony and Canon gear, with mostly Canon/sigma lenses. I like using a hybrid setup where possible.

The r is a good step but there are still a few things that aren't as strong as my current Sony for video, namely ff 4k, and 120 fps in 1080. The colour, clog and dpaf are all good factors, but I'm unlikely to put money into something to get a side step in performance overall

 

[Loswr]

After all the rumors, the leaked specs, the official release, the videos, white papers, etc. all I can say is...

Meh.

I'm looking for a FF backup to my 5Ds. I held off to see what Canon's new FF MILC would be like. If it had checked certain boxes at $2,300 it would have been an easy preorder.
<snip>
What about stills? It does deliver the 5D4 sensor at $2,300. That's a good sensor at a good price for someone who wants Canon glass and a USA warranty. But if my backup is for stills only I can gray market another 5Ds or 5Dsr, get considerably better IQ, and save a couple hundred.

I disagree with the 'meh' comment generally, I think it's a good release and will be a popular camera. (Although admittedly, I have a video camera for video and have zero desire to record video on an ILC.) But I commented earlier that I might get an R – the 5DsR. As you point out, a gray market copy costs less than the EOS R, and it ticks more of my boxes.

 

[Talys]

Completely agree. This intentionally crippling approach by Canon needs to stop, and we have to stop being Canon apologists, otherwise Canon will simply continue this practice infinitely. As I've said before, I have never seen a consumer electronics company who intentionally gives customers "less is more" - i.e. the "subtractive" approach, by subtracting rather than adding.

You need to buy a computer, smartphone, tablet, or computer upgrade part.

Examples: Intel and AMD processors start at the high end, and are progressively crippled to make cheaper products. Many of their low and mid-range products have nearly identical manufacturing costs to their super-expensive manufacturing products; at a minimum, they're cheaper re-designs of higher end architectures. If you like video games, nVidia cards are pretty much the same thing. Do you really think a 1080Ti Founder's Edition costs all that much more than a 1080 to make, or for that matter, a 1070? Do you think an iPhone or iPad with 256GB of storage costs way more to make than one with 64GB of storage?

Instead of "crippling", think of it as this: if they didn't subtract features to make a more attractive price, the only product that would be available is a much more expensive one than you'd probably want to pay, and if you did cough up the cash, you'd be paying for a lot of stuff that you didn't use.

I for one, will always support a company that builds subsets of products at lower prices, over one that provides fewer options. Quite often, I will buy something that is NOT their top of the line, because the price difference from one notch down is huge, while the real benefit to me is marginal. But I'm just fine with the company making more money from someone who is willing to pay the big leap up.

Of course, if there isn't an option that I like, it's not like I have to buy something; I'll just move right along.

 

[Talys]

I think I fit into that category - using Sony and Canon gear, with mostly Canon/sigma lenses. I like using a hybrid setup where possible.

The r is a good step but there are still a few things that aren't as strong as my current Sony for video, namely ff 4k, and 120 fps in 1080. The colour, clog and dpaf are all good factors, but I'm unlikely to put money into something to get a side step in performance overall

My Sony friend is struggling with the same thing. He really just wants DPAF; he also has a bunch of Canon glass, though it's a little bit dated now. He's also wondering if switching becomes an overall side step and trading some problems for different shortcomings. I figure he's waiting for me to buy one, he'll borrow it, and then go from there

 

[privatebydesign]

The devil is in the details and the more details I learn the more I like the system.
AF at f11 so 100-400 f5.6 retains AF at 800mm!
Lens corrections for TS-E lenses
Improved IS performance on EF lenses due to improved sensor feedback.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

I’m tired of reading about the crop factor. It’s a non-issue that has become an issue in the “spec wars”. 4K cinema sensors are only around 12 megapixels. The EOS R is a stills camera. If you want high resolution stills, you use a massive sensor that has an effective video resolution of 8K. With that much data, your camera would cook trying to process a video stream.

Also, if I understand correctly - video shooters concerned about the crop can use an EF-S 10-18mm wide lens with the adapter and boom, problem solved. Because the image is ALREADY cropped, you'll still get the wide (16-35) view.

 

[peters]

... I’m tired of reading about the crop factor. It’s a non-issue that has become an issue in the “spec wars”. ...

No, this is simply NOT a non-issue. I am realy hyped by this new camera and I will certainly preorder it as an addition to my lineup (especialy for travel and for video work without breaking my arms off and hustling with a realy unhandy codec). But this is REALY a BIG disapointment for me.
I use a 1dxII (and 5dIV) on a daily basis for photo an video work. The Crop of the 5dIV is realy a problem and makes the camera (paired with the totaly unaccaptable rolling shutter and the unhandy codec) REALY a bad choice for video. And don't tell me the crop is not a problem because Cinema Cameras have it too, as they accept different lenses. The 5D cant accept APS-C Lenses - so its pretty much impossible to get ANY decent wide angled shot in 4k. The 1dx manages this better with 1,3, but its still annoying.

At least we can use EF-S Lenses on the EOS R, so this is not THAT bad. Lets hope they fixed the insane rolling shutter because this is realy incredible bad on the 5d.

I am still pretty unsure which EF-S Lense (with autofocus) to get for the EOS R for wide angled shots (for imagefilms, real estate and such) in 4k. Many options are either: bad, only manual focusing, not fast or realy expensive... Anyway, this is an additional investment (I hoped I could just use my incredible beautiful Tamron 15-30 with the EF to RF adapter for this. Now I need a SECOND adapter for EF-S AND a nice wide-angle APS-C lens... an investment that could probably get close to a similar sony mirrorless.....) Also I have to calculate stupid stuff to pick a lense from the box, when I mix it with the 1dxII....

All in all: I need TWO adapters AND a new lense - simply because they decided to leave out a feature that could have produced very nice images.

 

[peters]

Also, if I understand correctly - video shooters concerned about the crop can use an EF-S 10-18mm wide lens with the adapter and boom, problem solved. Because the image is ALREADY cropped, you'll still get the wide (16-35) view.

This is still not as wide as other lenses (THAT I ALREADY OWN) on full-frame. Also, now I need TWO adapters, thanks to canons great policy...

Also: the EF-S 10-18 is REEEEALY an ugly lense and nothing that should be attached to an 2000$+ camera. Every 16-something L is BY FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR better. It may be good for the price, but its literaly the CHEAPEST wide-angle you could possible buy from canon. Especialy the corner sharpness and color reproduction is just bad....

 

[Deleted member 379512]

My Sony friend is struggling with the same thing. He really just wants DPAF; he also has a bunch of Canon glass, though it's a little bit dated now. He's also wondering if switching becomes an overall side step and trading some problems for different shortcomings. I figure he's waiting for me to buy one, he'll borrow it, and then go from there

Yeah - I picked up an a7R3 as it was/is a good fit for my specific use case, but having one system only does appeal, and this particular camera isn't going to help that. The next model up might however, and Canon are filling in the gaps that had me move over in the first place (albiet slowly filling them in)

I don't think I'll ever get everything I want in one body, it's really just figuring out where the pro/con balance lies

 

[Deleted member 379512]

The devil is in the details and the more details I learn the more I like the system.
AF at f11 so 100-400 f5.6 retains AF at 800mm!
Lens corrections for TS-E lenses
Improved IS performance on EF lenses due to improved sensor feedback.

Not all the details are great unfortunately though- it looks like all the ff mirrorless cameras are hiding fine print in their specs now, Canon, Nikon and Sony

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

How updated is the sensor? are they finally to the modern age of a Sony sensor or is it still same old low DR Canon as always? Gotta finally be a truly modern sensor no???

At least the video has 10bit external (that is huge) although they still seem afraid to lead the pack. Why not jump ahead and 10bit internal? 60fps 4k?
Anyway, whatever. The real question will it be poorly processed mushy 4k as typical for Canon in the past or will it be ultra crisp and artifact free mega-oversampled 4k like from Sony?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Starting the new fast zoom at 28mm is a bit of a bummer, having 24mm is awfully nice. Maybe they will also come out with say an f/2.8 one that does 24mm-70mm? It does seem that the new mount distance does allow for some potentially superb performance at the edges or for ultra fast lenses.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

... Anyway, this is an additional investment (I hoped I could just use my incredible beautiful Tamron 15-30 with the EF to RF adapter for this. Now I need a SECOND adapter for EF-S AND a nice wide-angle APS-C lens...

I thought the EF-RF adapter also took EF-S lenses? So that's only one adapter. Although if you wanted the control ring thingy AND drop-in filters, that's a different story...

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

@miketcool "
A few Sony A series cameras allow a full sensor readout where the processor either compresses info, or samples a few pixels instead of all of them. This leaves you with video that is noisy and not sharp. It’s not turned on by default and Sony sets a 1.5x crop factor for video. Even at 1.5x crop, Sony is oversampling to 5k and bringing you slightly lossy video to a 4K codec at a rate of 8-bits.

The EOS R is cropping to 1.7x and using the least oversampling, the most direct sensor data output, and the highest data rate. This means you get HIGHER QUALITY VIDEO in this format. Canon has a successful series of Cine cameras because image matters, not silly spec sheets argued on Internet forums. "

What? Over-sampled video the way Sony does it has been produced crisper video, by far, than the Canon method and with less artifacts and less noise. Oversampling improves quality compared to direct read out of the Canon sort. Plus Canon does some really messy things with the video processing that turn it to mush, so far every model. If you use Magic Lantern you see how much mush they and mess they are doing to the quality, it uses so much room though that ML RAW is a pain, but you do get around the so far hideous Canon video processing in their DSLRs and get >8bits which is really important too. Sony processing for video in the camera is vastly superior so far.

 

[Durf]

This is still not as wide as other lenses (THAT I ALREADY OWN) on full-frame. Also, now I need TWO adapters, thanks to canons great policy...

Also: the EF-S 10-18 is REEEEALY an ugly lense and nothing that should be attached to an 2000$+ camera. Every 16-something L is BY FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR better. It may be good for the price, but its literaly the CHEAPEST wide-angle you could possible buy from canon. Especialy the corner sharpness and color reproduction is just bad....

For many the 10-18mm stm will be just fine on this R camera. Of course it's not a high end video production lens but for average joe videos and vlogging it's a great lens IMO. I've actually got some pretty decent landscape shots with this lens stopped down a bit and I think the color and sharpness is rather good. (not perfect).

My guess is that 95% or more of those that actually buy this camera will not be high end production video makers, pro photographers, or major pixel-peepers and this camera will be great for them. (even with a 10-18 stm lens)

My other guess is that this EOS R will be one of Canons biggest sellers, perhaps of 2018 and surely going in to 2019. Can't wait to see what their higher end version will be!

This is actually the first Crop or FF Mirrorless that has really caught my attention.....(but I'm 100% happy with my current gear)

 

[peterzuehlke]

~11.7MP crop mode when an EF-S lens is attached.

And the 4K video has more of a crop factor than my Sony a6500 apsc. AND NO IBIS. I have been shooting 5D 4 and Sony mirrorless when silent shooting is needed and for video for awhile now. I was hoping to go back to all Canon, but it looks like going to have wait a little longer.

 

[privatebydesign]

Not all the details are great unfortunately though- it looks like all the ff mirrorless cameras are hiding fine print in their specs now, Canon, Nikon and Sony

As a first shot it sounds more and more impressive to me, bear in mind Canon are saying this is a mid level camera, an equivalent 5D or 1DX is going to have 'more' yet even the benchmark is giving us really nice details.

Maybe I'm a cup full kind of guy but I am really looking forwards to seeing where this goes and will almost certainly sell a 1DX MkII to get a 'pro' version as it offers so many different features.