Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R5 C

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
988
1,165
UK
haha. I admit I did experience similar albeit milder rollercoaster of emotions about the IBIS. I calmed down when I realized my lenses have Optical IS. And I can use them without IBIS. R5 won't let you use OIS without IBIS.
There are plenty of Canon lenses that don't have OIS, e.g. the superb EF 180mm F3.5 macro, which has no OIS equivalent in either the EF or RF range.

... and when it comes to third party lenses, there are even more that don't have OIS, including the entire range from Laowa.

So while *you* may not own or need such lenses, there are plenty of us who do, and for us, IBIS is extremely valuable.
 
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BakaBokeh

EOS RP
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
212
465
There are plenty of Canon lenses that don't have OIS, e.g. the superb EF 180mm F3.5 macro, which has no OIS equivalent in either the EF or RF range.

... and when it comes to third party lenses, there are even more that don't have OIS, including the entire range from Laowa.

So while *you* may not own or need such lenses, there are plenty of us who do, and for us, IBIS is extremely valuable.
My current verdict on IBIS and it's lack thereof in the R5C is that I'm okay, actually fine without it. Current verdict, because these are based on claims, and have yet to validate them myself. It all stems from whether you plan to use this for video or photography, and if your use case is hybrid... which way do you skew? If you are only photo, or primarily photography with a little video, the R5C is not for you. Because the omission of the IBIS does indeed cripple the capabilities as a stills camera. The ability to shoot at lower shutter speeds and lower iso because the IBIS is taking care of the camera shake is incredibly invaluable. I've noticed many more sharper photos because of IBIS.

If you primarily plan to shoot video, which is what the R5C is aimed for, then the IBIS omission is acceptable and even preferred for several cases. IBIS contributes warping and wobbling at corners on ultra-wides. I've heard professional users say they prefer the permanently set sensor than even IBIS equipped cameras that can "disable" IBIS, because even when disabled, the sensor is never perfectly locked in place as say a sensor without IBIS. Mounted to external stabilization systems like gimbals and even other cases mounting to FPV drones and car mounts, the preferred method is no IBIS at all. As the IBIS will fight and introduce unwanted artifacts.

An official Canon source also has said IBIS was also removed to help eliminate the overheating. Initially I did not believe this, but this is from an official canon source. I believe the absolute non-starter for the R5C was a camera that had overheating issues or could not run unlimited video. If IBIS had to go to make that work, that was a tough but logical decision to make.

Lastly, removal of IBIS doesn't mean the camera doesn't have any stabilization at all. It still has a couple levels of Electronic Image Stabilization that work well and have seen some pretty impressive demonstrations. In fact, using RF lenses improves the performance on the EIS. It does work in conjunction with the OIS equipped lenses, and I assume improvement on non-OIS lenses similar to how the IBIS would talk to the OIS in the R5. It does introduce levels of crop, but each user has to decide if that's a dealbreaker for themselves. For me, it's not.

The only thing is that while the EIS can be an acceptable substitute for IBIS when shooting video, I do not think it will work as a substitute for the R5's IBIS when used for photography in the case I mentioned earlier. This is why I say, it really depends on if you plan to use this for video or photography. If video is your primary use case, the R5C is a no brainer even without IBIS. If you plan to shoot a lot of handheld photography at lower shutter speeds (low light) more so than video, stick with the R5.
 
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Nathan Phillips

Nathan Phillips Photo
Mar 23, 2020
29
45
34
Indiana
www.nathanphillipsphoto.com
Only issues I see is how slow it is to switch menus and maybe stabilization.

At least give us full menu (include video) like the R5 in the Photo Mode Dial and then the Cinema Menu with the Video Dial. This will give two options of video. Gives you back the autofocus the R5 has and then allows you to get fast pace photo/video work.

Photo Mode: R5 menu with both photo and video
Video Mode: R5C/C70 Menu

Then for stabilization, give us a super 35 or super 16 advanced stabilization like the C70 has.
 
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dilbert

EOS 90D
Aug 12, 2010
169
172
My current verdict on IBIS and it's lack thereof in the R5C is that I'm okay, actually fine without it. Current verdict, because these are based on claims, and have yet to validate them myself. It all stems from whether you plan to use this for video or photography, and if your use case is hybrid...

If anyone says they want to buy the R5C for the primary use in stills photography then mark that comment down to them being a troll of sorts. A person serious about stills photography just wouldn't do it.
 
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dirtyvu

EOS 90D
Jan 7, 2019
142
114
From what I understand, a fan does NOT pre-suppose that it is not weather sealed?

Did the R5C specs say if it has weather sealing or not?
I missed that part.

C
see the CVP video. he says it's still weather sealed even with the fan. his video is the most thorough of all the videos so far.
 

dirtyvu

EOS 90D
Jan 7, 2019
142
114
VERY dissapointed of the weird ass DPAF II in stills mode, and DPAF I in video mode. Why canon, for what? Its almost like you went out your way to do that to us.albeit, i don't know how that will translate in the real world. But it seems like an unecessary situation here

Also, the different AF has been debunked. I bet you watched that stupid MonkeyPixels video where the guy didn't even have a R5C.

If you look at the Canon USA site under specifications, for the R5, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF" under the photo section. There is no I or II. Under the video section, it also says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF".

So for the R5C, on the US site, under the photo section, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF II". Under the video section, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF". So if you compare the US sites, it appears the R5C is actually better than the R5 (when it's not).

On the Europe site, for the R5C, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF II" for photo and "Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Eye AF and EOS iTR AF X" for video.

On the Europe site for the R5, under the photo it say s"Dual Pixel CMOS AF II" but under the video section it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Eye/Face Detection and Animal Tracking AF, Movie Servo AF Manual".

So both are the same!!! The R5 and R5C have the same system.




 

landon

EOS 90D
Jul 26, 2020
182
245
Hopefully some company comes up with a neat external battery power solution, in the size of the Samsung T1/T5.
 

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perplex1

EOS M50
Sep 25, 2020
31
14
Also, the different AF has been debunked. I bet you watched that stupid MonkeyPixels video where the guy didn't even have a R5C.

If you look at the Canon USA site under specifications, for the R5, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF" under the photo section. There is no I or II. Under the video section, it also says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF".

So for the R5C, on the US site, under the photo section, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF II". Under the video section, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF". So if you compare the US sites, it appears the R5C is actually better than the R5 (when it's not).

On the Europe site, for the R5C, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF II" for photo and "Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Eye AF and EOS iTR AF X" for video.

On the Europe site for the R5, under the photo it say s"Dual Pixel CMOS AF II" but under the video section it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Eye/Face Detection and Animal Tracking AF, Movie Servo AF Manual".

So both are the same!!! The R5 and R5C have the same system.




lol um no dude. I went by the actual canon engineer's on B&H's live Q&A with them. listen and weep: (timestamped @ 32:19, but he goes on @ 33:00 to say how its just like the c70 or c300mkii's AF for video))
 
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adigoks

EOS 750D
Jul 12, 2020
68
80
Also, the different AF has been debunked. I bet you watched that stupid MonkeyPixels video where the guy didn't even have a R5C.

If you look at the Canon USA site under specifications, for the R5, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF" under the photo section. There is no I or II. Under the video section, it also says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF".

So for the R5C, on the US site, under the photo section, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF II". Under the video section, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF". So if you compare the US sites, it appears the R5C is actually better than the R5 (when it's not).

On the Europe site, for the R5C, it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF II" for photo and "Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Eye AF and EOS iTR AF X" for video.

On the Europe site for the R5, under the photo it say s"Dual Pixel CMOS AF II" but under the video section it says "Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Eye/Face Detection and Animal Tracking AF, Movie Servo AF Manual".

So both are the same!!! The R5 and R5C have the same system.




same hardware. but different algorithm in different OS. i will argue that R5C will have better AF than C70 in video mode. althogh the AF behavior may differ between R5 & R5C in video mode. which is better ? im not sure just yet. the only reviews that i know doing preliminary AF test is CVP. in their test, they feel R5C is perform a bit worse than the r5.
 

CrPr

CR Pro
Sep 7, 2020
6
4
www.tyrol.online
My current verdict on IBIS and it's lack thereof in the R5C is that I'm okay, actually fine without it. Current verdict, because these are based on claims, and have yet to validate them myself. It all stems from whether you plan to use this for video or photography, and if your use case is hybrid... which way do you skew? If you are only photo, or primarily photography with a little video, the R5C is not for you. Because the omission of the IBIS does indeed cripple the capabilities as a stills camera. The ability to shoot at lower shutter speeds and lower iso because the IBIS is taking care of the camera shake is incredibly invaluable. I've noticed many more sharper photos because of IBIS.

If you primarily plan to shoot video, which is what the R5C is aimed for, then the IBIS omission is acceptable and even preferred for several cases. IBIS contributes warping and wobbling at corners on ultra-wides. I've heard professional users say they prefer the permanently set sensor than even IBIS equipped cameras that can "disable" IBIS, because even when disabled, the sensor is never perfectly locked in place as say a sensor without IBIS. Mounted to external stabilization systems like gimbals and even other cases mounting to FPV drones and car mounts, the preferred method is no IBIS at all. As the IBIS will fight and introduce unwanted artifacts.

An official Canon source also has said IBIS was also removed to help eliminate the overheating. Initially I did not believe this, but this is from an official canon source. I believe the absolute non-starter for the R5C was a camera that had overheating issues or could not run unlimited video. If IBIS had to go to make that work, that was a tough but logical decision to make.

Lastly, removal of IBIS doesn't mean the camera doesn't have any stabilization at all. It still has a couple levels of Electronic Image Stabilization that work well and have seen some pretty impressive demonstrations. In fact, using RF lenses improves the performance on the EIS. It does work in conjunction with the OIS equipped lenses, and I assume improvement on non-OIS lenses similar to how the IBIS would talk to the OIS in the R5. It does introduce levels of crop, but each user has to decide if that's a dealbreaker for themselves. For me, it's not.

The only thing is that while the EIS can be an acceptable substitute for IBIS when shooting video, I do not think it will work as a substitute for the R5's IBIS when used for photography in the case I mentioned earlier. This is why I say, it really depends on if you plan to use this for video or photography. If video is your primary use case, the R5C is a no brainer even without IBIS. If you plan to shoot a lot of handheld photography at lower shutter speeds (low light) more so than video, stick with the R5.
Totally agree with you. As an 80% stills shooter I also prefer my R5 with IBIS over the new R5c. In this context I want to mention one caveat using IBIS in stills: I observed blurred corners in water-landscape pics shot free hand with a EF 16-35 f4 at 16 mm plus 6stop ND filter (f 10, about 1/4 sec. shutter speed). In the mid parts these pics are tack sharp thanks IBIS, but the corners are more than soft. I never observed this phenomen using this superb lens without such filters and shorter shutter speeds and IBIS. Therefore, a tripod will provide better results in such situations.
 

dirtyvu

EOS 90D
Jan 7, 2019
142
114
lol um no dude. I went by the actual canon engineer's on B&H's live Q&A with them. listen and weep: (timestamped @ 32:19, but he goes on @ 33:00 to say how its just like the c70 or c300mkii's AF for video))
may be true. but the guy is not an engineer. he is a spokesperson. his title is officially "senior product specialist". and we have all known spokespeople to misspeak. we'll have to wait and see something official. if true, then it's disappointing.
 

perplex1

EOS M50
Sep 25, 2020
31
14
may be true. but the guy is not an engineer. he is a spokesperson. his title is officially "senior product specialist". and we have all known spokespeople to misspeak. we'll have to wait and see something official. if true, then it's disappointing.
yea i also googled his name, but he mentioned on Adorama's R5C live Q&A that he talks with the engineers all the time. And "senior product specialist" is not a marketing role like a spokesperson, it is pretty much what it is - a product specialist -- meaning if he's assigned to handle Q&A's for the R5C, he has in depth hands on knowledge of the product. Also the fact that there are other canon specialists, and technical advisors on these calls and do not correct him. I agree with you, it is dissapointing.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
27,140
6,585
As I’ve said, video is not my thing but I get that people are disappointed the R5C video uses DPAF instead of DPAF II. Has anyone considered the possibility that DPAF II has optimizations designed for still photography that could be detrimental for video AF?

My R3 (and presumably the R5) has Servo AF for stills and Movie Servo AF for video, with separate settings. What if Movie Servo AF is actually DPAF (not II)? I’m sure Canon wouldn’t feel the need to state that, if it were true.

No idea if this is what’s going on, just suggesting an alternate explanation. Newer isn’t always better for all applications. On my R3 with my EF 600/4 II, the EF 2xIII TC is sharper than the RF 2x, and the latter has noticeable barrel distortion.
 
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scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,991
1,194
UK
www.flickr.com
There are plenty of Canon lenses that don't have OIS, e.g. the superb EF 180mm F3.5 macro, which has no OIS equivalent in either the EF or RF range.

... and when it comes to third party lenses, there are even more that don't have OIS, including the entire range from Laowa.

So while *you* may not own or need such lenses, there are plenty of us who do, and for us, IBIS is extremely valuable.
And for those people there are the R6, R5, and R3.

Incidentally, and a genuine query: how well does IBIS stabilise the 180L? I have the Sigma equivalent with IS and wouldn't want an unstabilised version.
 

DBounce

Canon Eos R3
May 3, 2016
443
476
Both, A1 and Z9 dont do 8k60, or am I mistaken?
Also the Z9 is much bigger, so its easier to put in a larger heatsink.
The A1 can overheat as far as I heard, but I am not sure. Its certainly an impressive camera. But than again, no 8k60, and the 4k120 is not oversampled from 8k (which is a huge feature in the R5C in my opinion).

The S1H for example got a bit lower specs as the R5C and it also needed a fan.
The R5C is still a super duper small body - so I guess its still dificult to squeeze 8k60 and 4k120 oversampled without overheat in it, without a fan.
The Nikon Z9 is getting 8K 60p via firmware update according to Nikon. Still has IBIS… no fan or heatsink. Amazing battery life.

Imo the R3 offers a better balance. A brand new modern sensor. Plenty of speed, good resolution, and great video. All without any issues with overheating.., which I can confirm from owning and shooting with one since release. Awesome battery life. Files that are workable in post. Best in class ISO performance. Improved dynamic range. No holes in the body or noisy fans. When the R1 is released, it will inherit the sensor tech from the R3… not the older tech from the R5/R5C.
 
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CanonGrunt

C70
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2012
288
210
And for those people there are the R6, R5, and R3.

Incidentally, and a genuine query: how well does IBIS stabilise the 180L? I have the Sigma equivalent with IS and wouldn't want an unstabilised version.
The Macro 180 L was always a lens I loved on my 5D MK III & 5DsR, but it became my favorite lens on my R6. I also use a ton of FD glass on my R6 that get incredible results with IBIS. Some pretty long manual lenses too. Helped a lot with the FD 800mm L propped up on a wobbly fence. I got some fun hand held shots with the FD 35mm Tilt Shift too. There are plenty if times IBIS is just really fun to have.

That said, very much a photography feature for the most part. Can cause weird stuff in video. Would have been cool if they had IBIS & the regular video features from the R5 in the R5C in the photo mode, an OG R5 mode if you will, and you flip the switch and it disengages IBIS in cinema mode. I imagine they had to lock the sensor down to deal with the heat displacement though in 8k, or at least that was the cheaper & most efficient way to do it. It would probably have cost a thousand more to make it happen, and that’s getting out of the price point of their target audience.

Still, IBIS be fun a lot of times on the photo side. :)
 
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CanonGrunt

C70
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2012
288
210
As I’ve said, video is not my thing but I get that people are disappointed the R5C video uses DPAF instead of DPAF II. Has anyone considered the possibility that DPAF II has optimizations designed for still photography that could be detrimental for video AF?

My R3 (and presumably the R5) has Servo AF for stills and Movie Servo AF for video, with separate settings. What if Movie Servo AF is actually DPAF (not II)? I’m sure Canon wouldn’t feel the need to state that, if it were true.

No idea if this is what’s going on, just suggesting an alternate explanation. Newer isn’t always better for all applications. On my R3 with my EF 600/4 II, the EF 2xIII TC is sharper than the RF 2x, and the latter has noticeable barrel distortion.
I’ve definitely been wondering about this. I’m betting your right that it is not optimized for the cinema OS.

The cinema department does tend to listen to complaints more than the stills department at canon, especially since they debut new cameras far less frequently. Quite a few features have been added in the cinema line via firmware updates. I’m hoping that enough requests for eye AF, and Animal AF will lead to a cinema version of DPAF 2 ending up in the R5C, C70, and C300 III & C500 II via firmware updates. But everyone that owns a canon cinema camera needs to request those features.