Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R5 C

cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,715
655
It's really not that hard. And if you're so exacting that you need unlimited 8k for long format recording, it's cheaper (and more reliable) to store the files on SSD than CF, and you're probably going to need external battery power, anyway. That's why this whining about mythical strawman hybrid shooting fantasies is ridiculous, it doesn't reflect anything someone actually does or needs to do. No one is limited by the fact that they can't hold an R5 for a full hour in a photo shooter's position with no outbound gear and get an uninterrupted 8k video...tripods or gimbals, batteries, and storage will all play a factor, at which point, the Ninja V+ is just one more thing. And having modular capabilities are a key SELLING point (not deterrence) for most actual video shooters, you can see it in the Sony ad copy as well, in addition to the hot shoe on the R3 and R5C.
It sounds like you're making excuses for Canon....and that's cool if that's what you're doing.

But with IBIS these days...its kind of an expected commodity tech in a modern camera in this price range...period.

And this would seal the deal for those wanting / needing only one camera. It was advertised to "do it all"....and it came, well....only close.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,715
655
No IBIS!!! What a rip off! It's unbelievable! Sony can do it!!

Oh wait...my lenses all have IS...and if they didn't, I can easily get lenses with IS.

But still, it's an outrage! Why can't Canon make the exact camera I want even if the majority of video pros don't want IBIS or all the other specs that I absolutely need to produce my YouTube videos!

Yeah, I'll get that perfect A1 that cost way more than it is worth and does overheat, but who cares about that stuff!

Mommy!!! Please make Canon give me the camera I want...Please Mommy!!
But, you forget one of the really GREAT things about mirrorless, is that with adapters, it opens up a WHOLE huge world of manual lenses, vintage lenses that can give you looks you can't get with modern ones or post really.

Those lenses, of course, don't have IS...so, IBIS is very valuable for the use of those.

cayenne
 

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
892
1,016
UK
I don't agree. I guess we shall see who's correct, based on Canon's sales this year.
It all depends on whether you are viewing the R5C as a pro video tool with sub-optimal stills capability (which is what the camera is), or whether you believe the camera should reflect Canon's slightly misleading advertising that it is "ready for anything". The latter implies that the specification and performance for stills is to the same standard as for video (which it is not).

Canon themselves have said that the combination of OIS and digital stabilisation is sub-optimal for stills photography (and causes a minor crop) and that stills photographers should really be considering the R5 instead:


If you're a high end video user and *really truly need non time-limited 8K*, and are content with just OIS for stills, get the R5C.

If you're a serious stills shooter, *and* you really need the combination of IBIS and IOS for the best stabilisation for your genre of photography, or if you use non-stabilised lenses, get the R5...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

BakaBokeh

EOS RP
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
212
464
I wouldn't go so far as calling the R5C as a sub-optimal stills camera just because it doesn't have IBIS. The IBIS is great for a very unique case of low shutter speed hand-held photography. Outside of that specific case, it's just as capable otherwise. If a hybrid shooter happens to shoot video and the photography side is mainly landscapes on a tripod, or does studio work or uses strobes, IBIS usefulness diminishes and may be moot. I would not discourage them from getting an R5C if their use case doesn't need IBIS.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,275
981
Davidson, NC
Yes, the crop is how digital stabilization works in video, whether in camera or in software on the computer. It is aligning the contents of a frame with the others, so the crop moves around. It makes no sense for still pictures that I can think of.
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
6,751
4,706
68
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
I wouldn't go so far as calling the R5C as a sub-optimal stills camera just because it doesn't have IBIS. The IBIS is great for a very unique case of low shutter speed hand-held photography. Outside of that specific case, it's just as capable otherwise. If a hybrid shooter happens to shoot video and the photography side is mainly landscapes on a tripod, or does studio work or uses strobes, IBIS usefulness diminishes and may be moot. I would not discourage them from getting an R5C if their use case doesn't need IBIS.
Generally agree. I would add that unless their use case really includes a lot of high resolution video with sophisticated demands, I would not discourage anyone from getting the R5.

As for IBIS, I would add to your comments that if people are shooting anything that moves -- birds, people, vehicles, even trees with branches and leaves -- the extraordinary stabilization of IBIS plus a stabilized lens borders on overkill in my opinion.
 

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
2,028
1,999
I wouldn't go so far as calling the R5C as a sub-optimal stills camera just because it doesn't have IBIS. The IBIS is great for a very unique case of low shutter speed hand-held photography. Outside of that specific case, it's just as capable otherwise. If a hybrid shooter happens to shoot video and the photography side is mainly landscapes on a tripod, or does studio work or uses strobes, IBIS usefulness diminishes and may be moot. I would not discourage them from getting an R5C if their use case doesn't need IBIS.
And this is why my control theory professor at uni would fail you instantly if you used the word 'sub-optimal' in an exam. It's a meaningless word that has a negative connotation. And you proved the original point when you said "Outside of that specific case, it's just as capable otherwise", which means it's below the optimum.

As people on this forum like to point out, there is no single 'best' or 'optimum' camera for everyone, so every camera is sub-optimal :)

</pet peeve>
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
892
1,016
UK
“Sub-optimal” is a term best saved for humorous and/or ironic purposes.
"sub-optimal" simply means "not as good as it could (or should) be" - which IMO is an accurate way to describe a camera that has taken a step backwards regarding stabilisation.

The "ready for anything" phraseology used by Canon to promote the R5C clearly implies that the camera should be "ready for any *stills* photography", as well as ready for any videography.

The R5C is likely going to be a superb tool for videographers, and a very good tool for stills photographers, but the lack of IBIS reduces its stills capabilities (at a guess, at least 1 stop less stabilisation than the "OIS with digital stabilisation", and with the penalty of minor cropping).

The IBIS + OIS stabilisation of the original R5 is class leading, and enables me to handhold as slow as 1/60 with a RF 800mm with static subjects such as perching birds. I think that's a quite amazing capability. The IBIS also means I can also handhold my non-stabilised EF 180mm F3.5 at significantly lower shutter speeds than would otherwise be possible. It's been a game-changer for me. There will be numerous other use cases where people gain significantly from having IBIS and IOS working in sync, as happens with the R5.

IMO, unless you are a really committed videographer who truly needs to shoot 8K RAW for extended interviews, the R5 is the better choice - cheaper, lighter, more compact and with better stabilisation for stills. Of course, there will be scenarios where subject movement requires a fast shutter speed and negates the advantages of IBIS, but equally there will be many scenarios where IBIS enables sharp photographs to be taken at lower ISO settings and/or slower shutter speeds.

But it's your money and your choice ;)
 

AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
9,667
14,588
"sub-optimal" simply means "not as good as it could (or should) be" - which IMO is an accurate way to describe a camera that has taken a step backwards regarding stabilisation.

The "ready for anything" phraseology used by Canon to promote the R5C clearly implies that the camera should be "ready for any *stills* photography", as well as ready for any videography.

The R5C is likely going to be a superb tool for videographers, and a very good tool for stills photographers, but the lack of IBIS reduces its stills capabilities (at a guess, at least 1 stop less stabilisation than the "OIS with digital stabilisation", and with the penalty of minor cropping).

The IBIS + OIS stabilisation of the original R5 is class leading, and enables me to handhold as slow as 1/60 with a RF 800mm with static subjects such as perching birds. I think that's a quite amazing capability. The IBIS also means I can also handhold my non-stabilised EF 180mm F3.5 at significantly lower shutter speeds than would otherwise be possible. It's been a game-changer for me. There will be numerous other use cases where people gain significantly from having IBIS and IOS working in sync, as happens with the R5.

IMO, unless you are a really committed videographer who truly needs to shoot 8K RAW for extended interviews, the R5 is the better choice - cheaper, lighter, more compact and with better stabilisation for stills. Of course, there will be scenarios where subject movement requires a fast shutter speed and negates the advantages of IBIS, but equally there will be many scenarios where IBIS enables sharp photographs to be taken at lower ISO settings and/or slower shutter speeds.

But it's your money and your choice ;)
Ken Rockwell has compared the overall IS on the R5 and the RP for the RF 800 https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm
and has concluded:

"I see only about a half stop extra improvement with the R5 even though the R5 adds in-body sensor-shift stabilization; I haven't seen the R5 IBIS to add any significant improvement to lenses that are already stabilized. The R5 is an awesome camera, but I wouldn't get one solely for the additional in-body stabilization which doesn't seem to do as much as some people hope." (click on both links to see his results on the RF 800 and other lenses.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,791
1,410
"sub-optimal" simply means "not as good as it could (or should) be" - which IMO is an accurate way to describe a camera that has taken a step backwards regarding stabilisation.
IBIS directly impacts heat dissipation. For a cinematographer having IBIS is therefore "sub-optimal."

The "ready for anything" phraseology used by Canon to promote the R5C clearly implies that the camera should be "ready for any *stills* photography", as well as ready for any videography.
It is. The people complaining are making a little too much of IBIS.

IMO, unless you are a really committed videographer who truly needs to shoot 8K RAW for extended interviews, the R5 is the better choice - cheaper, lighter, more compact and with better stabilisation for stills.
Exactly. The R5C is primarily for cinematographers. The R5 is primarily for photographers. But there is a great deal of capability overlap between them. And yes, the R5C is a competent stills camera. If your stills shooting consists of using Canon's stabilized RF 'holy trinity' you're not even missing out on anything. Not even weather sealing (to my earlier surprise).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,275
981
Davidson, NC
"sub-optimal" simply means "not as good as it could (or should) be"

But it's your money and your choice ;)
None of us are as good as we could or should be. ;)
As for my money, neither of these cameras is on my radar as potential purchases, so that’s my choice. I shoot video very rarely, so if I had to buy one or the other, the R5 would be the obvious choice.
 

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
892
1,016
UK
Ken Rockwell has compared the overall IS on the R5 and the RP for the RF 800 https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm
and has concluded:

"I see only about a half stop extra improvement with the R5 even though the R5 adds in-body sensor-shift stabilization; I haven't seen the R5 IBIS to add any significant improvement to lenses that are already stabilized. The R5 is an awesome camera, but I wouldn't get one solely for the additional in-body stabilization which doesn't seem to do as much as some people hope." (click on both links to see his results on the RF 800 and other lenses.)
Yes, I've seen that, and his findings with the 800mm on the R5 concur roughly with mine - I can manage sharp shots at 1/60, he can manage sharp shots at a crazy 1/30, which can probably be explained by him simply having steadier hands.

He finds about a one stop difference between using the combined IBIS and OIS of the R5 and the OIS-only of the RP. I don't have an RP available, so I can't comment. But even a one-stop advantage can make the difference between a sharp shot and an unacceptable one. Alternatively you can shoot at the same shutter speed but use a lower ISO setting, which again is a big deal for me personally.

As I've posted previously, I stopped using my *unstabilised* 180mm F3.5 with my (now sold) 5DS simply because the lack of any stabilisation in either body or lens made it virtually unusable in my quite shaky hands. On the R5, that is now my most commonly used lens - that's how good the IBIS is. Of course, it's entirely possible that someone with much steadier hands than me would see less of a difference, I can only judge from my own experience.

IF the digital stabilisation of the R5C is so good, presumably Canon will cease to to incorporate mechanical IBIS in the R1 and other future bodies, and replace it with digital stabilisation. Now that really would be interesting to see.
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
525
512
All this discussion about "its a bad camera because ibis is missing. I am such a professional, I need an uncompromised video and photo tool".

Just keep one R5 and buy one R5C. Thats the perfect solution. You have the perfect photo camera with great video features with ibis, in case you realy need this.
And you have one more video centered camera that offers unlimited recordings and everything one can wish for, except ibis.

These high end professionals that seriously say the missing ibis is a dealbreaker, are quite just posers. If your work is that incredible important and you cant get it done without ibis, you should certainly have a second backup camera anyway.
 

yeahright

EOS 90D
Aug 28, 2014
135
102
IF the digital stabilisation of the R5C is so good, presumably Canon will cease to to incorporate mechanical IBIS in the R1 and other future bodies, and replace it with digital stabilisation. Now that really would be interesting to see.
IBIS works DURING the time a frame is taken, digital stabilization works BETWEEN frames and is, therefore, of no use for stills photography (where only a single frame is taken, so what would you stabilize).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

chrisrmueller

EOS M50
CR Pro
Oct 23, 2018
44
31
All this discussion about "its a bad camera because ibis is missing. I am such a professional, I need an uncompromised video and photo tool".

Just keep one R5 and buy one R5C. Thats the perfect solution. You have the perfect photo camera with great video features with ibis, in case you realy need this.
And you have one more video centered camera that offers unlimited recordings and everything one can wish for, except ibis.

These high end professionals that seriously say the missing ibis is a dealbreaker, are quite just posers. If your work is that incredible important and you cant get it done without ibis, you should certainly have a second backup camera anyway.
Honestly, I feel similarly and that’s why I’m holding on to my R5 + Ninja V and sold off the rest of my gear for the R5C. I used an R professionally for several years and it was great despite not having IBIS, CLOG3, or full frame 4K. I’ll hold onto the R5 as a B-cam on video gigs and use the R5C as a B-cam on photo gigs. What I feel will be most profoundly useful for this new camera is the Cinema EOS firmware, with its Face Only AF, monitoring tools, and non-stop recording time with oversampled 4K and 2K. Having it all in one package without needing an Atomos will be a game changer. My work is 60/40 photo/video, and in defense of those who need IBIS, I have never done any video work where I was not on a tripod or gimbal.
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
525
512
Honestly, I feel similarly and that’s why I’m holding on to my R5 + Ninja V and sold off the rest of my gear for the R5C. I used an R professionally for several years and it was great despite not having IBIS, CLOG3, or full frame 4K. I’ll hold onto the R5 as a B-cam on video gigs and use the R5C as a B-cam on photo gigs. What I feel will be most profoundly useful for this new camera is the Cinema EOS firmware, with its Face Only AF, monitoring tools, and non-stop recording time with oversampled 4K and 2K. Having it all in one package without needing an Atomos will be a game changer. My work is 60/40 photo/video, and in defense of those who need IBIS, I have never done any video work where I was not on a tripod or gimbal.
Jeah, thats pretty much exactly my setup :)
The Ninja is also a great monitor, just a bit power hungry in my opinion. Btw, check out the latest update, it brings fan control to the atomos!
Having 2 cameras is a matter of course. I can not take any "professional" here serious, who says he is doing such importan work, but only has one camera body. Failure or breakdowns are allways possible, so its crucial to have at least one reliable backup. Also many videojobs require 2 angles, so a second cam for b-roll is very often necessary.
The R5 and R5C are the 100% perfect combination :)
Also I do a lot of travel photography, so the R5 is a perfect little tool for this. Its smaller and got the ibis for situations with bad light =)

I am not so sure what to think about IBIS for videoproduction. My handheld footage is often quite shaky, but than again the IBIS isnt that great either. It feels choppy and locks sometimes, but sometimes not. Its not realy smooth. All Cinema centered cameras also dont feature IBIS, so in this area its obviously not realy wanted. But I would have prefered if they had included it in the R5C.

I am also interested in the AF performance of the R5C compared to the R5. I hope its not notable worse, since its "only" DPAF I nad no DPAF II
 

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
892
1,016
UK
IBIS works DURING the time a frame is taken, digital stabilization works BETWEEN frames and is, therefore, of no use for stills photography (where only a single frame is taken, so what would you stabilize).
Yes I think that's correct, so digital stabilisation would only be of value for stills during bursts, and the first frame in the burst would only have OIS (assuming a stabilised lens is fitted). This just further underscores my comments that for critical sharpness with stills, IBIS is invaluable, particularly with unstabilised optics. The saving grace is that most recent EF and RF lenses have extremely good OIS, and luckily for stills shooters, the R5 is cheaper than the less suitable R5C.