Canon officially launches the RF 28-70mm f/2.8 IS STM

#262
candyman said:
I am in that boat (replacing the 16-35 f/4) But how to deal with filters below 24mm? That is why I keep the 16-35 for now. I invested heavy in LEE filters and like using it.
Click to expand...
I will keep the EF16-36mm F4L IS because I prefer the internal zoom...... as UW is not my commonly used range it is pointless for me... and if I need a compact prime, I have the RF 16mm... though the corner sharpest is poor....
 
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#264
Del Paso said:
Only with the M.
Most M lenses below 35mm show an ugly magenta cast on the sides of the picture if used on EOS mirrorless. Even some retrofocus ones. And M lenses below 35mm need the 6bit coding in any case, for the same reason. But I haven't carried out a test on the R5 II, could be better than onn the original EOS R.
By the way, my "normal" kit is:
Leica M with 18, 24, 28, 35 and 75mm, now R5 II :love: with 60mm Macro Elmarit or RF 100, EF 100-400 +ext, 24mm TSE. Trinovid binos( 10X25) in an F-Stop Ajna or Mindshift Rotation 34L.
But: Since I'm not getting younger, I try to limit myself more and more. In October, in Austria, I'll put only the R5 II, the 15-35 f/2,8, the 60 macro and the 100-400 into the bag (and the 24 TSE ?). But I'm afraid I will miss the Summiluxes, not for the f/1,4, but for their fantastic quality...
Click to expand...

R6 with my 60mm Macro-Elmarit. :cool:

_J8A2767.jpg
 
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#267
AlP said:
Here are some (Google-translated) excerpts from the interview found here (https://personal.canon.jp/articles/interview/developer-f28-70-f28), which is an in-depth discussion about the development of this lens:
  • As you mentioned, there is an L lens with a fixed F2.8 for the 24-70mm. While this lens has been highly evaluated in the market as an L lens, there have been voices saying that the price, size, and weight are too high. This product was conceived because we thought, "There must be users who want a fixed F2.8 lens, but cannot afford an L lens."
    Manufacturers other than Canon are also releasing compact zoom lenses with a fixed F2.8. Also, as we enter the mirrorless era and camera bodies become more compact, we started this project with the hope that by releasing a compatible compact fixed F2.8 zoom lens, people who have been hesitant to use a fixed F2.8 lens because they thought, "Fixed F2.8 is good, but it's big and heavy," will be able to use it.
  • The original concept didn't include a retractable type, and we told them, "It will be almost the same size as the RF24-105mm F4 L IS USM and RF24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM." "But then we already have fixed F2.8 and fixed F4," they said. What would it be like to add something similar to that...
  • Does the image quality change whether you use a retractable lens or not? It's just the mechanism that's different, and there's no difference in image quality itself. If the overall length is shortened, the volume decreases, which is obvious, so it can be made lighter. Initially, we had simulated it at around 540g, but the actual product weighed less than 500g, so it was lighter than expected.
  • We used an expensive lens called a "UD lens" at the very front. Usually, the lens diameter is smaller on the inside, so we place it there. The larger it is, the higher the selling price. But in order to achieve a compact size and high performance, we decided to use a large UD lens for the front element.
  • It's common knowledge that equipping an interchangeable lens with IS makes it larger and heavier, but the RF28-70mm F2.8 IS STM is not actually larger. The big three lens from the EF era, the EF24-70mm F2.8L II USM, does not have IS, but the RF28-70mm F2.8 IS STM, which does have IS, is actually significantly smaller and lighter. This is due to the evolution of the IS unit.
    This is a technical matter, but when an IS lens is moved, the posture of the mechanism that supports it is inevitably disturbed. This time, the center of gravity of each part that makes up the IS has been precisely calculated and its position optimized. The center of gravity has been repositioned so that it matches perfectly, making it an ideal design. The RF28-70mm F2.8 IS STM is equipped with a miniaturized IS unit.
    IS is a technology that has been handed down for many years at Canon, but something revolutionary is happening now. The ideal design has made it possible to miniaturize it, and we have been able to keep the weight at less than 500g for this size.
  • The focus mechanism, called the "lead screw type STM (Stepping Motor)," has also evolved. The focus mechanism installed in this lens has been powered up to the point where it can move lenses that are about twice as heavy as the previous lenses that were moved.
    USM has been used for the lenses of higher-end models. It is powerful, but large and expensive. The small STM has evolved to be able to move lenses that are about twice as heavy, which has contributed to this compactness.
    Actually, when I first thought about "I want to make it with these specifications," I still couldn't move lenses of this weight. So if I had manufactured it five years ago, the housing would have been one size larger. This time, the design was approved at a time when various technological advances were in place, and the idea of a retractable barrel was also incorporated, so you could say that it is a crystallization of everything condensed into one.
  • Normal STM is open control. Simply put, the motor rotates at a set speed and stops at a set position. It's a very simple control. But this STM has a sensor that reads the motor's rotation speed.
    As with electric vehicles, reading the motor's rotation speed allows for more advanced feedback control. Canon's interchangeable lenses have rarely had focus mechanisms with this kind of advanced control in telephoto zoom and macro lenses, but this is the first time they have been installed in a standard zoom.
  • The Nano USM and VCM are quite excellent motors, but this lens's STM control is very good, so it is able to achieve speed and accuracy that are comparable to them.
Click to expand...
"there have been voices saying that the price, size, and weight are too high"
"But in order to achieve a compact size and high performance, we decided to use a large UD lens for the front element."
"small STM has evolved to be able to move lenses that are about twice as heavy, which has contributed to this compactness."
"focus mechanisms with this kind of advanced control in telephoto zoom and macro lenses"

Seem like Canon designers will be taking an approach to making more compact and lighter lenses in the future....

For pricing, I think Red line will still hold the premium prices, but not sure if the will also lower some L lense prices? RF 35mm F1.4L is much cheaper than the EF version at launch I think... so it will be an interesting time ahead... personally, waiting to see what RF 50mm VCM will look like...

And more interesting non-L lense like this RF 28-70mm F2.8 STM will appear... to cater to the non-high end hobbist market..

I suppose more use of UD lens may be used to achieve more compact sizes and less weight.... and I felt Mirrorless should be this way... more compact... Smaller focusing motor and control unit will mean lesser spaces are needed....

So with this RF 28-70mm F2.8 IS STM, that is closer to the L lens in MFT chart.... I am guessing Canon may come out with a new RF 24-70mm F2.8L IS II that is more compact.. or even VCM version instead.... but may not be cheaper.....

But personally, will still prefer the RF 24-105mm F4L IS as it will be the best traveling kit, pair it with an RF 16mm and an RF 100-400mm and you have 16-400mm covered.....
 
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#268
m4ndr4ke said:
I’m looking forward to try this lens and put it against my EF 24-70mm f/2.8 II. I’m almost sure they will be at least at the same level, with the new lens costing probably nothing (on a good deal) after selling the old one, saving over 400 grams with the adapter, improving image stabilisation, and a huge size difference.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this animated gif will play but here you go. I think you'll be happy with it.
ezgif-6-5f942f00c8.gif
 
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#269
HMC11 said:
A generally accepted norm for 'comfortable' viewing distance (of an image) is about 1.5-2 times the diagonal of the image. Given that the ‘average’ human eye (20/20) can see about 300 microradians of visual acuity and has a near point of 25 cm. That works out to 75 microns, or 338 pixels per inch, or one can approximate the PPI needed for a print viewed at distance x inch using PPI ~ 3327/x. For a 4x6 in image, the PPI at 11inch in viewing distance (the most stringent in the viewing distance range) works out to a PPI of about 302, which translates into about 2.2mpx for the 4x6 print. In fact, this 2.2mpx remains 'constant' even as the image size increases (because the 'comfortable' viewing distance also increases. I have arbitrarily set for myself an acceptable minimum mpx value of about 12mpx, so to be able to crop from 24mpx is reasonable, but a more aggressive cropping would require higher mpx, but there is a limit to how high it is comfortable for me, so I have settled for 30mpx as the 'sweet spot'.
Click to expand...

Yes, those numbers you quote are all linear in nature. Going from 24mp to 30mp gives you an increase in linear resolution of 11.8% but at the cost of 25% larger file sizes. If for some reason that 11.8% increase is really important to you then sure, I guess. To each their own, but numerically it isn't much.

Add in that a LOT of MILC are used either as video-first tools or as hybrids, and the cost/benefit of resolution changes to video shooters is an important consideration for manufacturers.

I was happy to see Nikon stick with 24mp for the Z6iii. Hope the upcoming R6iii remains at 24mp, and that Sony smartens up and abandons the weird 33mp sensor and returns to 24mp too. I also suspect the upcoming FX3ii will be 24mp (up from 12mp), and if Sony keeps the A7S series for another generation, that it will share the same sensor as the FX3ii and also be 24mp.

Anyway... I think Canon has a good thing going with 24mp on the R6 and a significant 37% jump in linear resolution to the 45mp R5.
 
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#270
Richard CR said:
I'm not sure if this animated gif will play but here you go. I think you'll be happy with it.
View attachment 219785
Click to expand...
It does look very promising, compared with the new RF 28-70 f/2.8 (Yes, I noticed the GIF compares the two 24-70mm lenses).
A little less resolution on the edges, on the wide end, as I suspected from the RAW files I downloaded, but everything else looks very similar.

Considering this...
2024-09-12 at 11.56.24.jpeg
(using the 24-105 here, since they're very similar)

...and the 400 grams difference, I might go for it.

It's not exactly an upgrade, it's more of a sidegrade, but I believe on rebates I could make this deal for free, or for less than €100. That would leave me with one to zero EF lenses on my kit, since I'm already selling my Sigma 50 Art, and then I could sell the adapters as well, and never look back.
 
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#273
The preorders for a non-L are pretty good. I think this lens checks a lot of boxes for people. I really hope this is a sign of things to come. A trinity of lenses like this would be really cool.

I don't think we'll see this show up as "refurb" for a while. A $100 USD rebate in the next 6 months wouldn't surprise me.
 
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#274
Del Paso said:
Shocking, how can you possibly use the first version? :eek: :ROFLMAO:
PS: This lens is a jewel, mechanically and optically, but this you already know...
Click to expand...
It is the 1973 slot:

197326296012630600Leica Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm / 2,8

50 years old. Was my second Leica-R lens. :)

Here is an Example: Makro-Elmarit & 550D
 
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#277
Berowne said:
Old but gold. The 35mm Elmarit is from 1964:

196420340012035000Leica Elmarit-R 35mm / 2,8

But it is soft, Leica-Glow. :cool:

View attachment 219790
Click to expand...
The only one that disappointed me was the R 2,8/28, sides and corners soft until f/11.on digital. But the Apo 180 f/3,4, the Apo Macro 100 f/2,8, the 50 f/2, the 90 f/2, f/2,8, the Macro Elmarit are still incredible lenses despite their high age. Unfortunately, the Leica R bodies had nothing in common with the Leicaflexes (me prefering the SL, not the SL2). Plastic instead of metal, I eventually lost all these cheap plastic parts (film advance lever, + - lever etc...)
 
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#278
m4ndr4ke said:
It does look very promising, compared with the new RF 28-70 f/2.8 (Yes, I noticed the GIF compares the two 24-70mm lenses).
A little less resolution on the edges, on the wide end, as I suspected from the RAW files I downloaded, but everything else looks very similar.

Considering this...
View attachment 219788
(using the 24-105 here, since they're very similar)

...and the 400 grams difference, I might go for it.

It's not exactly an upgrade, it's more of a sidegrade, but I believe on rebates I could make this deal for free, or for less than €100. That would leave me with one to zero EF lenses on my kit, since I'm already selling my Sigma 50 Art, and then I could sell the adapters as well, and never look back.
Click to expand...
I will check on Panamoz, as soon as they get it. Price might be interesting. They sell some Canon lenses with a huge discount, other ones can cost more than at local stores. I had a 1000 euro discount on my 2,8/15-35 (euro1650), while the RF 1,8/50 would have cost me 100 euros more than from Amazon, Calumet Fnac etc...
 
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#280
Look
m4ndr4ke said:
It does look very promising, compared with the new RF 28-70 f/2.8 (Yes, I noticed the GIF compares the two 24-70mm lenses).
A little less resolution on the edges, on the wide end, as I suspected from the RAW files I downloaded, but everything else looks very similar.

Considering this...
View attachment 219788
(using the 24-105 here, since they're very similar)

...and the 400 grams difference, I might go for it.

It's not exactly an upgrade, it's more of a sidegrade, but I believe on rebates I could make this deal for free, or for less than €100. That would leave me with one to zero EF lenses on my kit, since I'm already selling my Sigma 50 Art, and then I could sell the adapters as well, and never look back.
Click to expand...
Looking at this pic, I'm sooooo glad I got rid of the adapter and adopted natives RF lenses. I sold the EF 16-35mm F4 L and EF 100-400mm in 2020 for a very high value and got the RF 14-35mm F4 L (in dec 2022 before I had the 15-35mm for about 10 months) and the RF 100-500mm
 
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