Canon registered two new ILC bodies

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,109
407
Vancouver, BC
They could go with with An alternative naming like Rc7 etc but I think that would be bad.
I think that if they did Rebel (North American) numbering, like the T2i, which didn't have a D anywhere in it at all, there is the possibility of no R. So something like the Rebel X2m in North America. But that would be equivalent to a R550 or a Kiss 4L in Japan. Cuz, like, you know, the numbering system has to make as much sense as the whole Rebel scheme :D
 
Feb 7, 2013
119
35
Maybe 1-2 APS RF models; one XXXd like (Z50) £899 and other higher end (A6600) spec £1400, one thing is for sure Canon giant jugglenault is plowing ahead in its ML transformation and implementation of being at top and having one Universal ML mount (RF).
 

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
190
117
How is it bad faith to sell a camera for less money that is less capable? How would the world be a better place if the R6 didn't exist at all?
If previous models of camera, at a similar market tier or of a lower tier (so therefore has nothing to do with price) included a certain feature, which is inherent to the hardware, and is intentionally disabled in firmware to make the next higher model look better, that's definitely done in bad faith!

Case in point is focus stacking which appeared on the RP, but was removed in the R6 to make the R5, where it was retained, to look more appealing. As you can see, this has nothing to do with production cost, it's about revoking features 'accidentally' released in earlier models because they don't fit the later marketing model.

I believe a similar thing was done with video features going from EOS R to the R6.

Same with removing 24fps video, but having 25fps and 30fps in some cameras, then doing a backflip and adding 24fps to some models with a firmware update but not others. Was added later in RP, can't remember the other cameras from memory.

We need to be able to differentiate between:
  • Adding extra or better hardware to increase functionality, which understandably increases the price, and
  • Intentionally disabling or limiting hardware functionality that is already part of the product, through firmware restrictions, which costs nothing to enable.
Hope this explains the difference! :)
 

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,920
1,861
If previous models of camera, at a similar market tier or of a lower tier (so therefore has nothing to do with price) included a certain feature, which is inherent to the hardware, and is intentionally disabled in firmware to make the next higher model look better, that's definitely done in bad faith! [..]
And how would you call doing the reverse? Limiting useful features (e.g. built-in intervalometer) to lower end models. I've felt that to be snobbery on Canons part.

The thing that really got me on the R5 was that FTP only works if you have a specific grip attached.
 

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
190
117
And how would you call doing the reverse? Limiting useful features (e.g. built-in intervalometer) to lower end models. I've felt that to be snobbery on Canons part.

The thing that really got me on the R5 was that FTP only works if you have a specific grip attached.
That;s just as bad! It's that kind of bad faith towards its customers that gets people to jump platforms for a different set of compromises and problems.

Canon has an interesting marketing strategy, they offer great value for money on entry-level budget cameras such as the M50, and Rebel series. Quite a few people remain happy with that gear and stick with it, case closed. Some photographers grow in proficiency (or don't and get addicted to collecting gear), get hooked by the Canon brand, and decide to upgrade. It's then that the cracks begin to appear in Canon's veneer of benevolence...

It appears that Canon's strategy is to design intentionally incomplete camera systems below the highest tier, to remove really convenient features that the hardware in the camera can do, reducing the versatility of the tool for the purposes of market segmentation.

When certain functions are missing that they need, buyers are forced to upgrade to the next tier. Sometimes Canon's actions are miserly, restricting features that other brands offer across their range only to higher tiers. Other times its just downright malicious, removing certain video modes, such as 24fps from vlogging cameras, or the overall number of video modes and custom memory recall modes from EOS R to R6. For the life of me, I can't imagine why they would do something like omit the metal lens mount from the old 55-250mm STM, how much more would it have cost to put a metal one on like every other lens? How about a sh*tty rubber gasket under the lens mount of non L-series lenses. Yes, I know that a few cents saved here and there, and over millions of products that increases profits, but that's exactly what I meant by mean-spirited bad faith towards their customer base.

To put this into perspective, most cameras these days can take decent images, especially when coupled with a decent lens, and cameras above $1,000 are probably sufficient for most people's needs. If you're happy with a tool for a certain task, and it works, and stick with it, and don't upgrade until you need more. Why reward bad corporate behaviour?

If you have specialist needs, or are into collecting camera gear, then it becomes a game of diminishing returns, the more you pay, the less you get for the extra money. That's a typical marketing strategy to create exclusivity, products that few have are highly desirable products, and they can be priced accordingly to create this impression, beyond the actual increased cost of parts within the product.
 

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,920
1,861
[..] For the life of me, I can't imagine why they would do something like omit the metal lens mount from the old 55-250mm STM, how much more would it have cost to put a metal one on like every other lens? [..]
Lensrentals has shown in a few of their teardowns that the metal lens mounts tend to be screwed into a plastic frame inside the lens. So it's mostly window dressing when used on mid- and low-end lenses. The metal mount on the EF-M 32mm made me laugh, it's only there to make the lens look more 'pro'. That lens has great IQ and value for money, but it's all plastic, except for the mount.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
26,136
4,747
…but Canon have the nasty habit of removing simple functionality on purpose (focus stacking on the R6 when it's even on the RP!) and this bad faith practice has popularly become known as the work of the 'Canon cripple hammer'!
I’d argue that it’s Canon’s decision what features to put in a camera, and your decision whether or not to buy it. Their job isn’t to make us happy, it’s to extract our money.

However, if you’re going to push the ‘cripple hammer’ argument, it would help your case to make correct statements. Canon states, “The EOS R6 features focus bracketing, which lets photographers create focus-stacked composite images with much more depth of field than can be generated with small apertures alone.

 

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
190
117
Lensrentals has shown in a few of their teardowns that the metal lens mounts tend to be screwed into a plastic frame inside the lens. So it's mostly window dressing when used on mid- and low-end lenses. The metal mount on the EF-M 32mm made me laugh, it's only there to make the lens look more 'pro'. That lens has great IQ and value for money, but it's all plastic, except for the mount.
Arghhh, cosmetic metal lens mounts??? It's a real shame when Canon creates a great budget lens with really decent image quality, but cheaps out on the construction...
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
26,136
4,747
And how would you call doing the reverse? Limiting useful features (e.g. built-in intervalometer) to lower end models. I've felt that to be snobbery on Canons part.
Can you say which higher end models omit the intervalometer? The 1D X III has it. Generally, a feature like that is introduced in a particular model then added to all subsequent models.

Like @LogicExtremist’s erroneous example of focus bracketing, which was introduced on the RP and has been included on cameras released since then including the 90D and M6II. They don’t go back and add such features to older cameras, which is why the lower-end RP has focus bracketing but the higher-end R doesn’t. That’s not the same as omitting, though.

I guess checking your facts before you post is too much trouble for some people. Here’s a tip: if you want to argue that low end cameras are ‘crippled’ stick to the AF point-linked spot metering that only 1-series cameras have (as long as you ignore film cameras); if you want to argue that high end cameras are ‘crippled’ stick to the in-camera HDR that no 1-series has (but the R3 will).
 
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LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
190
117
I’d argue that it’s Canon’s decision what features to put in a camera, and your decision whether or not to buy it. Their job isn’t to make us happy, it’s to extract our money.

However, if you’re going to push the ‘cripple hammer’ argument, it would help your case to make correct statements. Canon states, “The EOS R6 features focus bracketing, which lets photographers create focus-stacked composite images with much more depth of field than can be generated with small apertures alone.

You've stated the facts there, and yes, my typo, it's the EOS R that does not have focus stacking, R6 does, but loses video modes of the former! The cripple hammer lives!!! :oops:

Totally agree:
  1. The vendor decides what to produce, with the sole intention of making sales, the'yre not there to make people happy, that's fanboy thinking.
  2. The market decides if they want what the vendor is producing.
  3. The vendor also creates marketing hype before release to create market demand and sell unreleased products of unknown quality to the market.
That's why I don't pre-order and didn't buy the EOS R... :)
 

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,920
1,861
Can you say which higher end models omit the intervalometer? The 1D X III has it. Generally, a feature like that is introduced in a particular model then added to all subsequent models.

Like @LogicExtremist’s erroneous example of focus bracketing, which was introduced on the RP and has been included on cameras released since then including the 90D and M6II. They don’t go back and add such features to older cameras, which is why the lower-end RP has focus bracketing but the higher-end R doesn’t. That’s not the same as omitting, though.

I guess checking your facts before you post is too much trouble for some people. Here’s a tip: if you want to argue that low end cameras are ‘crippled’ stick to the AF point-linked spot metering that only 1-series cameras have (as long as you ignore film cameras); if if you want to argue that high end cameras are ‘crippled’ stick to the in-camera HDR that no 1-series has (but the R3 will).
Does the 1dx3 have both kinds of
intervalometer? One where you get a bunch of images and one where you get only a movie?
It could very well be that I mixed up introduction dates and the lower end model was introduced after the 5 series I was looking at.
 

bbasiaga

Canon Shooter
Nov 15, 2011
470
543
USA
You’re right. My point wasn’t the name but the style of the camera. Something under R6. I’m just worried that the R6 is a precedent for top LCD being for cameras over 3000 $ :/
You really won't miss it if it is not there. I don't. Its just as fast and easy to use the rear screen, and even the EVF can display all the settings you normally change via the top LCD. The bonus there is that you don't even have to look away from your subject to change them.

Brian
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
6,420
4,075
68
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
A. We've spoken to Canon after the Olympics. The camera will not preclude you from changing your file size.
B. Our firm provides media for game day and after. Everything from billboards, bus wraps, building wraps, in-store displays, high-gloss magazines, stills for broadcast, digital signage, digital publishers,
C. During game day we have multiple photographers, shooting from multiple locations all with IP Based Intercom's so the truck/NOC/director/client/producers can direct. When tethered, (an) editor(s) is going through everything on each feed.

It would depend on the venue. Tethered to the truck we have gigabit - Right now we're maxed out at 700Mbps - Which will be upgraded in the R1
Verizon has new 5G towers in many venues and that's 20 gigabits, Well beyond what the R1 will need.

80MP will be used when needed or requested. No one will be shooting at 80MP / 30fps. 15fps is really the sweet spot and having the latitude to choose file size for the appropriate condition precludes 10,000 80MP/30fps even being a consideration. The key is having the latitude.

We're very rarely shooting at ISO ranges like that. Our venues are very well lit. I've seen entire games at 5000ISO even at the highest shutter speeds. In some instances, we're concerned with blowouts vs. shadows

Based on the amount of stabilization offered in the R1, hand held vs. mono/tri pod we'll have to see. Again, we won't be spraying and praying, The majority of shots now capturing what we like can be from 1/1250 to 4000. If a client is requesting a specific athlete which is very common, based on what the shots are used for, will determine what we do. When we do "Athlete Profiles" having the latitude to use the same camera in the studio will be very helpful too. The continuity to workflow will be welcomed.

The luxury of having an editor or multiple editors is expensive but the return for the firm is very profitable. Right now a single photographer with just two 500GB cards can shoot an entire game with plenty of space left over. At times we share a 32TB bank with broadcast and we've never even got close. Not too many years ago we were shooting and a PA would dump each card to an SSD as they were sent by a laptop. Things are so much after now. 5G at 20gigabit speeds will make internal/external 5G transmission a very realistic part of workflow.

You're doing what most of us did for years before we worked for larger firms.


We really want to be able to determine from a creative perspective the resolution we want. If you look at a Blackmagic 12K you can pull 80MP stills.
The Nikon Z9 is a 45MP Sports Camera. The technology is here already. Doubling the resolution of the 1DXMKIII is simplifying things but that's the simple objective and that is 80MP. No one here wants to shoot stills at 30fps. It seems good for marketing but if you're a pro and know your sport 15 or 16fps is optimal.
Thanks for your detailed reply. It always helps to understand the perspective of someone else. I hope the R1 will come close to meeting your needs when it finally arrives. With any luck I will be retired by then.
 

SilverBox

I'm not new here
CR Pro
Aug 30, 2018
41
55
the R6 sucks for hybrid vs the R. No custom video modes. Maybe that is a way of canon telling us the R6 isnt for video shooters also it has less MP. So it isnt really a replacement.
I use it for short clips all the time, its great for casual hybrid shooting. The record button near the shutter can be used to start video recording in any mode. It does tend to overexpose so I have to ride the expo comp but that doesnt bother me having to, having to preroll a few hot frames.
 

Traveler

EOS R6
Oct 6, 2019
121
153
You really won't miss it if it is not there. I don't. Its just as fast and easy to use the rear screen, and even the EVF can display all the settings you normally change via the top LCD. The bonus there is that you don't even have to look away from your subject to change them.

Brian
I really really miss it on my R6.
 
Oct 31, 2020
192
232
I want to avoid everyone here who disregards the Canon Exec who stated there will not be Mark ll versions of the R and RP. Paying attention is free.
Canon said there won't be a Mark ll. Why isn't that enough for people?
There won't be an EOS R Mark II, no one is claiming there is. But many (I myself as well) believe there will be a camera tsloted in similar way the R is. And the Canon exec never stated there won't be a camera lined-up between the (current) RP and the R6. It was just stated that there will "be no R Mk II" which only rules out a possible name for a camera.

When looking at the current line-up, it is obvious that Canon hadn't decided on a naming scheme with their first three cameras of the R system (R, RP, Ra) and now they've obviously settled on numbering the cameras. That's the only reason why there won't be an EOS R Mk. II.

So there is absolutely no need to get mad at people for talking about a possible successor for the R. I'm sure, Canon is too.

PS: I think it is great that the R cameras use the same naming scheme everywhere. No "Kiss here, Rebel there, XXXXd elsewhere...".
 
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Ian K

EOS 90D
Jul 20, 2016
102
69
I think that if they did Rebel (North American) numbering, like the T2i, which didn't have a D anywhere in it at all, there is the possibility of no R. So something like the Rebel X2m in North America. But that would be equivalent to a R550 or a Kiss 4L in Japan. Cuz, like, you know, the numbering system has to make as much sense as the whole Rebel scheme :D
But doesn’t the rebel range only cover the 100 series? Don’t you still have a 70D in the USA. So it’s not APS-C that has a different name, just that one segment.