Canon releases an official statement about the EOS R5 and EOS R6 heat concerns

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,743
1,307
I'll be recording a surfing competition using 4K60. Camera is rated for 25 minutes in 73F weather. But it will be 95F with no clouds at noon. How long do I have before it shuts down? How long to do I need to wait for it to cool down? If I wait 10 minutes to cool down, how long will I be able to shoot again for (it's 10 minutes @73 but it's 95F). Anyone can answer me right now?, in exact minutes?

Which hybrid, fan-less, FF camera can record 4k 60p no-crop video in 95F, noon sun weather without overheating?
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
Really? Not in this segment its not.

Canon is the first and only to come out with uncropped full frame 4K60 with the R5 & R6 in a hybrid mirrorless body.

4K60 is not uncommon at all, uncropped full frame sure that's very uncommon but what good is it if it overheats when you try to use it? When you need 4K60 which is very common there is no mode that will not overheat, that was my point.
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
But it doesn't do that, does it?

It might get hot before you're finished (in which case, plan your shots better) but it's just as likely - probably more likely - that it won't.

So you have a production model in your hand, you've shot a couple hundred hours on it in direct sunlight on 100F days and you have statistical data to backup that statement...no of course not, so in other words your statement makes no sense at all and is made strictly from a "Canon walks on water and can do no wrong" viewpoint. I get this is a Canon forum but take off the blinders and realize at least briefly that maybe just maybe overheating just might be a real problem and without real world feedback all we have to go on is what Canon has already released which is nowhere near enough information to know how bad the situation is going to get in real world use.

Do you really think it is such a minor issue when Peter McKinnon a "Canon ambassador of light" still felt he had to mention it in an otherwise glowing review of all things Canon? What that probably means is he experienced it first hand and I'm pretty sure he was not shooting 20min of 8K raw video.
 
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BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
199
429
4K60 is not uncommon at all, uncropped full frame sure that's very uncommon but what good is it if it overheats when you try to use it? When you need 4K60 which is very common there is no mode that will not overheat, that was my point.
Well there's physics involved. Full frame is a bigger sensor, more processing, more heat so there are engineering tradeoffs.

So if sensor size isn't a big deal, then I believe you could shoot in 4K60 non HQ (not oversampled) crop mode without overheating. I could be wrong, but I thought I heard this in one of the myriad videos I watched yesterday.
 
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Besisika

How can you stand out, if you do like evrybdy else
Mar 25, 2014
752
172
Montreal
Trolls and haters are out in full force. As if they're all upset about the 8K limits, conveniently ignoring the elephant in the room that in order to record 8K footage at max duration will require a 512GB CFAST card that runs about $600.

But hey... you keep pushing your agenda.
Not to mention that:
- the bigger the file, the more chance to loose an entire recording due to file corruption.
- the more important the file is, the more copies you should get and more copies you should store.
- the bigger the file, the longer to copy it to your computer
- the bigger the file, the harder to work with it in post, and with Premiere Pro crashing so often, the more frustrated you will be
- the bigger the file, the stronger computer you need, more money to spend on new GPU and CPU.
But hey ... everybody was awaken.

Can you imagine the amount of people who haven't shot video before (or used only camcorder) deciding to join the 8K parade, if the R5 8K was "perfect"?
I am wondering if Canon will deliver a perfect 8K R1 at a higher price.
The funny thing to me is that nobody has a production camera yet, and "everybody" feels betrayed. You didn't taste the food yet, and you yell at the cook based on the menu. He actually didn't even finished cooking it yet. He told you about it a week within the announcement and you feel offended already.
I am wondering what happened if they didn't say anything about it, let us all pay for it then discover the so-called "fault".

Reading these complaints, I finally see what they said about us photographers being convinced that shooting a video is just pointing a camera to a subject then pressing a record button.
 
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Jul 9, 2020
7
11
So again, we keep going back to EXTERNAL recording, especially in the exact situation you just described. Because recording video in camera at or above 30 mins triggers additional licensing fees and registrations in certain countries, and Canon isn't going to pop that ceiling on a non-Cinema line camera. And there's no reason for them to.

No reason, apart from they're competing with cellphones these days. My phone can record until its storage is full, in 4k.

I'm not a professional, but I am buying my first proper camera (I went with the R6) right now. A cine camera definitely wasn't on the cards — I want a camera to learn still photography, make youtube videos, and sometimes record shows for amateur theatre. While I do wish the R6 had a 4k mode that didn't overheat (like the R5 does), the 30 minute limit is actually more annoying to me, because my much cheaper multi-purpose device (cellphone) can do it.

I'll probably buy an external recorder. But I feel annoyed that I have to :(
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
Well there's physics involved. Full frame is a bigger sensor, more processing, more heat so there are engineering tradeoffs.

So if sensor size isn't a big deal, then I believe you could shoot in 4K60 non HQ (not oversampled) crop mode without overheating. I could be wrong, but I thought I heard this in one of the myriad videos I watched yesterday.

According to EOSHD there is no 4K60 mode that does not have thermal limits and I think this one is the one where people will be most likely to run into thermal issues because it is the most common to use on a gimbal. Once again...no one is saying they need 30min of non stop 4K60 footage but other environmental factors may make the useable duration much shorter than that:

 
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dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,743
1,307
Actually it wouldn't...want to know why, because modern cars have rev limiters and speed limiters to make sure they are reliable and they do not overheat. If you drive any modern car at top speed for 20 min and it overheats then you need to get a new car because it means either the rev limiter or speed limiter are not doing their job.

You don't know what you're talking about here. A top speed run is one of the most stressful things you can do to a sports car due to the heat/stress encountered by the motor under sustained max rpm. And the few people who get to do it don't hold their car's top speed for 20m. You can't even get close to top speed on most race courses. Outside of sections of Germany's autobahn people generally only get to test their car's top speed if a club manages to get access to a closed freeway or an especially long runway for a day.

Drag racing is a quarter mile burst. Race courses have turns and your foot can be on the brake as much as the gas. Even police chases don't generally see someone hold the pedal to the floor for 20 straight minutes. And yes, even exotic sports cars will suffer thermal damage in a 20m flat out run, especially in warm weather.

In fact, if you drove any modern car at top speed for every single day of its existence right up until the warranty expired....if it overheated even once you would still be covered by the warranty.

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: I've seen Ford refuse warranty service on a hard run Mustang for less. Keep in mind Ford EXPECTS you to drag and course race Mustang GT's.
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
No reason, apart from they're competing with cellphones these days. My phone can record until its storage is full, in 4k.

I'm not a professional, but I am buying my first proper camera (I went with the R6) right now. A cine camera definitely wasn't on the cards — I want a camera to learn still photography, make youtube videos, and sometimes record shows for amateur theatre. While I do wish the R6 had a 4k mode that didn't overheat (like the R5 does), the 30 minute limit is actually more annoying to me, because my much cheaper multi-purpose device (cellphone) can do it.

I'll probably buy an external recorder. But I feel annoyed that I have to :(

For your use case the R6 will be perfectly fine, actually the EOS R would have even been perfectly fine.
 
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Jul 9, 2020
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For your use case the R6 will be perfectly fine, actually the EOS R would have even been perfectly fine.

For the recording of amateur shows, the R would probably be better. I'd still have to hook up an external recorder (because of the annoying 30 minute artificial limit), but then I could record in 4k.

I'm sure I'll love the R6, and for many other aspects of my use case it'll be wonderful :)
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,743
1,307
4K60 is not uncommon at all, uncropped full frame sure that's very uncommon but what good is it if it overheats when you try to use it? When you need 4K60 which is very common there is no mode that will not overheat, that was my point.

There's a good chance that an external recorder will solve this. Wait until someone has the chance to test it. If it does, then you have your FF no-crop 4k 60p platform.
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
You don't know what you're talking about here. A top speed run is one of the most stressful things you can do to a sports car due to the heat/stress encountered by the motor under sustained max rpm. And the few people who get to do it don't hold their car's top speed for 20m. You can't even get close to top speed on most race courses. Outside of sections of Germany's autobahn people generally only get to test their car's top speed if a club manages to get access to a closed freeway or an especially long runway for a day.

Drag racing is a quarter mile burst. Race courses have turns and your foot can be on the brake as much as the gas. Even police chases don't generally see someone hold the pedal to the floor for 20 straight minutes. And yes, even exotic sports cars will suffer thermal damage in a 20m flat out run, especially in warm weather.



:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: I've seen Ford refuse warranty service on a hard run Mustang for less. Keep in mind Ford EXPECTS you to drag and course race Mustang GT's.

I'm going to have to disagree, I have been in the high performance car scene for over 20 years, top speed runs are prevented by many other factors mainly the fact you can't find a driver, track, or roadway that can safely handle it. You would need an absolutely impeccable track (like the salt flats) to do a top speed run and even then it probably wouldn't be for 20 min because you would probably still run out of track.

Also, Ford refuses warranty service on hard run mustangs because they spun out, trashed the transmission, or took other actions that were out of spec for the car. I did caveat my statement that if you stay within the operating specs of the vehicle you would still get warranty service.

My original statement was specifically that the car still would not overheat in that scenario, all other factors considered equal a modern car would not overheat just by driving it at its top speed, everything else might fall off but overheating would not be the problem. If you took a modern car and put it on a lift rack and put a fan in front of it to simulate the airflow that the car would get when driving it at top speed then put the gas pedal all the way to the floor for 20min while it is in drive and has a rotational drag equivalent to the drag the car would experience at top speed on a roadway guess what.....it would not overheat.
 
Jul 9, 2020
7
11
If you don't plan to do slow motion for the shows, 4K60 might be overkill. Unless you really like a 60FPS look. Otherwise you can save yourself the headache of larger file sizes by recording at 4K24 or 4K30.

It's 4k30 on the R6 that I want! That's marked as being susceptible to overheating in the Canon document. I don't plan to record shows at 4k60.
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,354
609
If you are looking for a camera that shoots 8k and doesn't overheat don't buy the R5. Canon is being very upfront about it. It's saying you can do a decent amount of recording before it overheats. If you are shooting 8K in 95C buy something more suitable. This is a do it all camera so it has to have compromises especially with its size. I personally don't get the focus on video as I see alot of great photos taken with high end cameras but very little worthwhile video. Most video seems to be series of very short video edited together so I'd say the R5 would be fine for most things. 8K would be overkill for things like interviews which would of longer duration. Most people don't have 4K televisions not to mind 8k. I think a focus on better content rather than better video quality would be more worthwhile and alot cheaper.
 
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Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,202
1,522
4K60 is not uncommon at all, uncropped full frame sure that's very uncommon but what good is it if it overheats when you try to use it?
As far as I know, in my use cases R5 won't overheat. What am I doing wrong?

When you need 4K60 which is very common there is no mode that will not overheat, that was my point.
If you know that you need a camera that won't overheat in 4K60 no matter what, why won't you take a camera that doesn't?

Just take notice that Canon doesn't yet produce a 5D-series camera with 4K60 for your use cases, and move on.
 

BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
199
429
It's 4k30 on the R6 that I want! That's marked as being susceptible to overheating in the Canon document. I don't plan to record shows at 4k60.
(y)
As far as the document goes, it mentions the oversampled 4K having the limitation. I do not see anything on the non-oversampled 4K, so that might be a mode that doesn't have heat limitations. Nevertheless, if you need long uninterrupted takes, the recorder is the way to go. There are not a lot of manufacturers that don't have the internal 29 minute limit. I think Panasonic is the only one at the moment.
 
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