Canon talks EOS R3, and confirms that it is not the flagship mirrorless

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
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I wonder if the R3 will remain dual-pixel (as stated by Canon marketing material) to give the R1 something of its own.
That will probably depend on who makes the sensor.

Will it be:
a) designed and manufactured entirely by Canon?
b) developed by Canon but manufactured by Sony?
c) upper substrate designed and manufactured by Canon, lower substrate by Sony?
 
Dec 30, 2020
3
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I can't imagine them forgoing the R mount entirely - I would have guessed that if they weren't able to utilize some of the new mount options, they'd just use the EF protocol and be done with it - I assumed that was what Rokinon was doing
You forgot, that the IBIS requires a faster communication bus between lens and body. The EF protocol seems to be much slower and does not supports the commands who support IBIS.
Well, i am not interessting into RF lenses, but i would like to get some payable new lenses from sigma - like the new 105mm macro art or a stabilized 120-300 f/2.8 for my R or mybe an R5s, that i would like to see.
 

slclick

PINHOLE
Dec 17, 2013
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I'm curious – what great 3rd party lenses are there for which there are no Canon equivalents? The optically stellar manual focus Zeiss lenses come to mind (although there are Canon L-series equivalents, just slightly less optically impressive and much cheaper). There are a handful of 3rd party options for lenses like the TS-E lenses (Schneider) and MP-E 65 (Venus, Mitakon), but again, Canon has versions.

The converse seems more true, for me at least – there's no 3rd party 600/4 for Canon, no 3rd party 11-24 or fisheye zoom, no TS-E Macro lenses.
If Tammy makes an RF 150-600 G2 style I'd be all over it. I have seen numerous images with the EF adapted for birding on R5/6's and they are phenomenal.
 

Bahrd

Red herrings...
Jun 30, 2013
184
127
That will probably depend on who makes the sensor.

Will it be:
a) designed and manufactured entirely by Canon?
b) developed by Canon but manufactured by Sony?
c) upper substrate designed and manufactured by Canon, lower substrate by Sony?
Why Sony? If anyone, Samsung is more than capable, I think.
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jul 21, 2010
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If Tammy makes an RF 150-600 G2 style I'd be all over it. I have seen numerous images with the EF adapted for birding on R5/6's and they are phenomenal.
Agree that a 150-600 is technically different, but really it's pretty close to the 100-500 – especially that resolution testing puts the Sigma @ 600mm on the same footing as the Canon at 500mm or the Canon + 1.4x TC at 700mm.

I still have the impression that the main 'difference' offered by Sigma/Tamron/Tokina is that they're cheaper than the Canon equivalents (and usually giving up something in the IQ arena for that cost reduction). But I'm open to alternative viewpoints. And certainly, cheaper is a significant advantage for many people.
 

miketcool

EOS 90D
Jun 29, 2017
190
381
Why Sony? If anyone, Samsung is more than capable, I think.
I think this is a non-issue. There is a semi-conductor shortage at the moment. There are a lot of new manufacturing strategies being implemented. Developed means it was designed and engineered by Canon’s extraordinary team. Who cares who they pick to make it. No one cries when they find out Samsung and LG are making displays for Apple.
 
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amorse

EOS R
Jan 26, 2017
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I'm curious – what great 3rd party lenses are there for which there are no Canon equivalents? The optically stellar manual focus Zeiss lenses come to mind (although there are Canon L-series equivalents, just slightly less optically impressive and much cheaper). There are a handful of 3rd party options for lenses like the TS-E lenses (Schneider) and MP-E 65 (Venus, Mitakon), but again, Canon has versions.

The converse seems more true, for me at least – there's no 3rd party 600/4 for Canon, no 3rd party 11-24 or fisheye zoom, no TS-E Macro lenses.
I'm not usually one to dive into 3rd party lenses, but there have been a hand full of interest to me over the years that don't have a direct comparable on EF or RF. The one that stands out most for me right now would be the Sigma 14mm f/1.8. I've been using a Rokinon f/2.8 for years (my only third party lens) for landscape astrophotography and it leaves a bit to be desired. The Sigma isn't perfect, but it's the fastest you'll find at that focal length. Another one I find interesting is the Laowa 24mm macro probe lens - a specialty lens if I've ever seen one. I would never expect a comparable to be released by Canon, but it would be a fun toy for some really unique perspectives using the waterproof probe with a light built in.
 
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StoicalEtcher

EOS RP
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Jan 3, 2018
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Possibly. Or, they could compromise and release a flagship R1 in 2023, with development announcement in third quarter 2022.

My uninformed opinion:

With the R3 announcement Canon keeps emphasizing that the 1DxIII will remain the "flagship" camera. This may be simply a marketing strategy to keep 1DxIII sales from cratering, or it could be a recognition that the professional customer base for the 1D series is not itching to switch to mirrorless.

That's not to say that the enthusiast base, which probably accounts for more 1Dx sales than the professional base, doesn't want a mirrorless "pro" camera. That segment does and they will get it with the R3. But, with the R3 in the lineup, Canon may feel little urgency to release an R1 geared to the shrinking pool of professional users. Especially since the professional market is more conservative and was always going to be the last segment to move to mirrorless.

The R3 may become the camera of choice for the lucrative enthusiast market that wants the latest and greatest. It could also become a more affordable option for sports photographers and photojournalists who have to buy their own equipment (which is a lot higher percentage of the total market than it once was.) The R3 can also serve as a test bed for high end professional sports and Olympics photographers, allowing Canon to learn what works and doesn't work for these users. Canon could then concentrate on making the R1 a camera for this much smaller and shrinking base of professional users without feeling any urgency to rush the development -- especially since it's unlikely to be much of a profit generator for Canon. It could be a 2023 camera or it could be a 2024 camera, maintaining the traditional four year Olympic cycle.

It's also entirely possible that we are overestimating Canon's own knowledge of what they plan to do. We are in a new and perilous era for camera manufacturers. The market has been totally disrupted by the COVID-19 pandemic, making it extremely difficult to get a clear reading on where the market is headed. Even without the pandemic, the market was rapidly shifting and shrinking. One side affect of the pandemic that people don't think about is how it has limited the ability of manufacturers to field test equipment. If an R1 is in development, just where do people think it is being tested, given how many professional and college sporting events have been cancelled over the past year. The pandemic has impacted development cycles in ways that we may never know.
I like your thinking on this - and couldn't agree more. Well said.
 

Pixel

EOS RP
CR Pro
Sep 6, 2011
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EF cycles have not much to do with RF.
It doesn't have anything to do with EF vs RF. This is decades of precedent. They've made it clear that the R3 is not the flagship and they've said the flagship is not soon around the corner either, so it makes sense that we have about two more years to go.
 

StoicalEtcher

EOS RP
CR Pro
Jan 3, 2018
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All you have to do is look at the litany of EF lenses that have been recently discontinued to know that EF is dead and the next flagship will be mirrorless.
Don't disagree with you - but saying I agree with Unfocussed's thoughts on Canon's potential development routes. :)
 

canonmike

EOS R6
CR Pro
Jan 5, 2013
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That part about 3rd parties getting access is a worrying sign which would mean that Sigma and Tamron may either take long to make lenses or just decide its not worth the effort in short term.
Thinking about this 3rd party Mfg dilemma, I guess their embracing RF mount depends on how good their engineers are and just how capable they are in reverse engineering the RF mount.
 
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dwarven

EOS RP
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Dec 12, 2019
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That part about 3rd parties getting access is a worrying sign which would mean that Sigma and Tamron may either take long to make lenses or just decide its not worth the effort in short term.

I wonder what their current production capacity is. If they're already operating at full capacity then we most likely won't see Sigma/Tamron lenses for awhile, yeah. Still, I'm sure they have a small team working on the communications protocols just in case.
 

degos

EOS RP
Mar 20, 2015
421
356
I'm curious – what great 3rd party lenses are there for which there are no Canon equivalents?

120-300 f/2.8
45 or 50 f/1.8 stabilised
35-150
And basically anything wide and with low coma

Canon's approach is to compete cross-platform with Nikon and Sony and not to acknowledge or compete with other lens brands on their own platform.
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
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Jan 28, 2015
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It doesn't have anything to do with EF vs RF. This is decades of precedent. They've made it clear that the R3 is not the flagship and they've said the flagship is not soon around the corner either, so it makes sense that we have about two more years to go.
If it is two more years, it still has nothing to do with the EF past. Nothing.
 

Jethro

EOS R
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Jul 14, 2018
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If it is two more years, it still has nothing to do with the EF past. Nothing.
I think it will have more to do with the timing of the R3 shipping. Assuming that is (early to mid) 2022, they would want some clean air before the R1, to encourage early adopters to buy the R3 and not sit on their hands to see what the full R1 specs were etc. So, maybe announcement / specs for the R1 late 2022, release some time in 2023. As has been pointed out, there is no immediate need to replace the 1Dxiii.
 
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slclick

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Dec 17, 2013
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Agree that a 150-600 is technically different, but really it's pretty close to the 100-500 – especially that resolution testing puts the Sigma @ 600mm on the same footing as the Canon at 500mm or the Canon + 1.4x TC at 700mm.

I still have the impression that the main 'difference' offered by Sigma/Tamron/Tokina is that they're cheaper than the Canon equivalents (and usually giving up something in the IQ arena for that cost reduction). But I'm open to alternative viewpoints. And certainly, cheaper is a significant advantage for many people.
I agree with you and I usually have stuck with L glass (pay once) but I have felt the G2 was one of the few lenses by a 3rd party, along with the Sigma 24-35 Art which could have a red ring. It is a tremendous value and occasionally on sale to boot. I suspect once Sigma and Tamron get into the RF game (which they will without a doubt) that the EF 3rd party lenses will see a price drop. Everyone wins!.
 
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AEWest

EOS RP
Jan 30, 2020
386
484
Thinking about this 3rd party Mfg dilemma, I guess their embracing RF mount depends on how good their engineers are and just how capable they are in reverse engineering the RF mount.
It would be great if Canon licensed lower margin consumer level lenses to third parties, just to fill up the lens lineup at that end of the market. That would provide a gateway into the RF system at a more reasonable price than is currently the case.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
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It would be great if Canon licensed lower margin consumer level lenses to third parties,
I am not sure that would be practical.
Sigma would not want to agree to that since such a license would prevent them from making high-end RF lenses.
That would give the cheap brands a big advantage.
Canon also wants to sell lenses as much as they want to sell cameras.
They have no incentive to create cheap competition.
 
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