Canon Very Large Sensor Media Format Mirrorless 1Dx2 style Camera Seen in Wild

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
714
166
This is a reformatted copy of an email sent to me from
colleagues in the Netherlands and Germany in Early 2017
*** CONFIRMING *** that an in-the-wild test prototype
was seen in Munich, Germany during a Football match
(that's soccer for you Americans!) that was ALSO CONFIRMED
via an earlier-in-year and later-in-year PHYSICAL closeup examination
of a similar system to be a MEDIUM FORMAT CANON CAMERA that has
a very large CMOS sensor in a body style very similar to a
Canon 1Dx Mark II camera but of course larger in size
to accommodate the larger sensor and lenses.


START OF FIRST EMAIL SENT TO ME FROM NETHERLANDS/GERMANY:
=============================================
RE: Confirmation of Canon 1Dx style body Medium format camera for 2018

This email is to confirm an
October 2016 article from German
camera enthusiasts group "EigenVector",
that an in-the-wild, fully-working
medium format Canon camera was seen
this weekend January 6, 2017 at
Olympiapark München stadium complex
in Munich, Germany during an indoor
football match.

"EigenVector" member "RosenBlatt"
spotted a noted and known European
Canon Engineer hovering undercover
at field-side during an indoor
football match held within the
Olympiapark complex.

Noticing an extremely large lens
mated to very large camera body
that was similar in appearance to a
Canon 1Dx series camera but larger,
"RosenBlatt" attempted to strike up
a conversation with said engineer but
was hastily rebuffed and the Canon
Engineer took hasty leave of the premises.

RosenBlatt's female companion was able
to take photos via her own Canon 5D Mk3
with a long lens to prove once and for
all that Canon is now field testing a
medium format camera.

After examination, these photos proved
nearly identical in looks to a camera
present in photos and video taken in
Japan in early summer 2016.

After an exciting day contacting
our sources in Japan who obtained
the original photos and video,
we are able to confirm some changes
to specifications present in our
earlier report.

The new specification are a
56mm by 42mm CMOS sensor Bayer
Pattern which is a slightly larger
sensor on the vertical than the
56mm by 38mm sensor outlined
in our earlier report.

It is confirmed that this is
a <<MIRRORLESS>> camera!

Resolution is now 8192 by 6036 pixels
still using 16 bits per Red, Green and
Blue colour channel coupled to a newly
added imaging format of 4:4:4 colour-
sampled JPEG-2000 which is wavelet-
based. This has been confirmed by
our sources!

It has also been confirmed to us
that the JPEG-2000 format is in
addition to the normal JPEG used
within all current Canon DSLRs.

It is a user selectable option
allowing full wide gamut image
capture using the wavelet
compression algorithm.

Pixel size has also been confirmed
as being 6.82 microns with an improved
linearity of light capture giving
low-light performance an improvement
of 5% over the already impressive
Canon 1Dx Mk2.

This means lower noise in the shadows
at the same ISO as compared to the
1Dx Mk2.

One massive improvement for usability
is allowing the definition of custom
menu layouts on scrollable 25-item
screens where common camera functions
can be aggregated into a single place.

Five such scrollable 25-item
touchscreen menus can be created
and labelled into a tabbed notebook
style of interface.

These custom menus are created
off-camera as a text file but can
be imported via Wifi or via USB3.

==========================================
END OF FIRST EMAIL SENT TO ME FROM NETHERLANDS/GERMANY.




START OF SECOND EMAIL SENT TO ME FROM NETHERLANDS/GERMANY:
=============================================

Stated Specifications

Canon 1Dx-body Style with 6x4.5-type
Medium Format Camera:

* 56mm by 42mm CMOS sensor Bayer Pattern

* 8192 by 6036 pixels (50 megapixels)
at 6.82 microns per photosite

* Global Shutter Sensor with a
now-specified 14.5 EV at ISO 100
Dynamic range vs 13.5 EV for 1Dx Mk2
It was explained to us that video
shooters could expect a true dynamic
range of 14 stops at ISO 800 which
is better than even the newly
released C700 cinema camera!
This looks well for low-light
shooting at high ISO values
as the EV drop-off curve is
noted to be flatter than the
1Dx Mk2.

* Shutter speed at full frame is
now an <<ASTOUNDING>> 25 fps
which is 3 fps higher than
specified in our earlier
2016 report!

* 4:4:4 colour sampling at 16 bits per
channel RAW and RGB Ultra Wide Gamut

* ISO range is ISO 100 to 51200 with
extensions down to 50 and up to 409600

* JPEG-2000 file format wavelet based
compression 4:4:4 colour sampling
at up to 16 bits per channel for
wide gamut imaging. Normal JPEG is
still available!

* Dual pixel autofocus

* Articulated and rugged OLED
Touchscreen with horizontal swivel
out to left and full 360 degree
vertical rotate with live-view at
1920 by 1200 pixels usable for
critical focus. Entire liveview
screen area is touch-enabled for
fast autofocusing over entire
sensor area!

* Five User defined and scrollable
25-item touchscreen menus for
creating multiple custom camera
option and function layouts!

* onboard GPS and 6-axis MEMS sensor
for XYZ rotation and XYZ movement
metadata recording on all still
images and periodically within
video files

* Two DIGIC processors each with an
embedded ultra wide gamut wavelet
image compression core and a wide
gamut MPEG4 video compression core

* One USB3 Type-C connector, one HDMI
connector and One RJ-45 1gb/sec
Ethernet connector

* Two C-Fast slots but NO SD card slots!

* Combined Battery and Internal hard
drive grip accessory allowing
<<TWO>> 63.5mm (2.5 inch?) SATA SSD
drives for high capacity still
photo and video file storage.

We have confirmed that testing was
completed with two inserted
3-terabyte Samsung SSD removable
storage drives!

* 802.11ac Wifi with multiple logon
accounts to autosend and <<EXCHANGE>>
photos too!

Two Canon MF cameras can obtain
photos from each other via
peer-to-peer Wifi and download
photos from external sources to
local C-Fast cards and internal
SSD drives!

* Confirmation that video recording
is supported at DCI 4k (4096x2160),
UHDTV (3840x2160) and HDTV (1920x1080)
downsampled from the full sensor
area at 24 fps, 25 fps, 30 fps,
50 fps, 60 fps, 100 fps and 120 fps.

HDMI output is confirmed clean of
any overlays at 4k DCI, 3840 and
1080 resolutions!

* We have confirmed that video
recording has eschewed Motion-JPEG
Intraframe compression and gone to
Motion-Wavelet intraframe
compression at up to 12 bits per
channel 4:4:4 colour sampling.

It is also confirmed to us that
MPEG4 interframe compression at
10 bits per channel 4:2:2 colour
sampling is now enabled!

* Canon Clog/Clog2/Clog3 and five
User-definable Log file entries
are confirmed present.

* 3.5mm audio input jack is present

* We have now confirmed that a more
expensive 120 megapixels at 8-to-10
fps version will be released at the
same time!

* It is confirmed that a 50mm and 85mm
lens in addition to a 600 mm
telephoto were tested in the wild
with four new zoom lenses to be
introduced at the same time for
the new medium format mount sizes.

It is confirmed that the lenses
will contain on-lens LED displays
for easy viewing of statistical
information even in low-light
situations!

* It is confirmed that a mid-2018
introduction date is specified

* Price for Body-only was given as a
range from 12000 Euros to as much as
16000 Euros at introduction! This is
<<VERY INEXPENSIVE>> compared with
Hasselblad or Phase One but with
a 25 fps burst shooting speed at
50 megapixels!

* It has been confirmed that lenses
will not be cheap and from 1.5x to
3x the price of the premium EF lenses
at equivalent focal lengths and at
least twice as heavy! You will need
to start working out and beef up
your tripods!

============================================
END OF SECOND EMAIL SENT TO ME FROM NETHERLANDS/GERMANY.


As an addendum to my second email, it was outlined to me
that the primary still photo codec to be used to compress photos
is a 4:4:4 Wavelet-based JPEG-2000 codec and the colour sampling
is 16-bits per channel native BUT but user choosable downsampling
of additional 12 bits, 10 bits and 8 bits per channel.

It was also outlined to me that the primary highest-fidelity
motion video codec is a Motion Wavelet-based ALSO with
4:4:4 16-bits NATIVE and also user-selectable per channel
colour sampling intraframe codec. No mention or RAW video
recording was made in my received emails but that RAW FORMAT
still photo shooting at 16 bits per channel IS AVAILABLE!.

And thirdly, it was outlined to me that the primary INTERFRAME
codec that has the longest recording times is a variation on
an H.265 codec (NOT the MPEG-4 outlined above!) that is to
be 4:2:2 quality with an option to choose ONE OF 8-bits,
10 bits ...OR... 12-bits per colour channel of colour sampling.
The camera NATIVELY captures at 16 bits per channel and
down-samples to the 12, 10 and 8-bits per channel.

Those bodes very well for high-dynamic range imaging
and by mentioning the specification terms of 14.5 EV
at ISO 100, I can PERSONALLY conclude on a technical basis,
there SHOULD BE a noise-reduction at ISO levels at or above
6400 between 5% to 15% and more over the already
impressive 1Dx Mk 2. This means that shooting at say
ISO 1600 you could probably shoot a few minutes after
sunset scene and almost NO NOISE will be seen and
colours will still be nearly fully saturated!

And finally, it has been confirmed by my sources that
TWO VERSIONS of the camera will be sold. A 50 megapixel
version and a 120 megapixel version to replace the 5Ds/r
camera.

It is indeed fully mirrorless and WILL shoot a full burst
of 25 frames per second at 50 megapixels which is an
astonishingly high speed! I hope they have the cooling
system and battery life down pat on these cameras!

I received a range of 7 fps to 10 fps burst rate shooting speed
for the 120 megapixel version of the medium format mirrorless.

The only concern I have is paying between 12 000 to 16 000 Euros
which I think is a bit steep BUT at 25 fps at 50 megapixels it might
change the medium format game ENTIRELY especially if the body
style stays with the 1Dx Mk 2 style!

I know this may seem like an utterly unbelievable rumour
to you, but my sources are rather impressive in their contacts
SO I MUST give them the benefit of the doubt because of their
personal and peer standing in still imaging and video engineering circles!

It looks like Canon is getting very serious about high end photography
at larger sensor sizes. I think more than a few pros would switch to
Canon MF if the body style was kept the same as the 1Dx Mk2 and
the burst shooting speed actually IS the stated 25 fps!

That speed CHANGES EVERYTHING within action sports and
wildlife photography circles at 50 megapixels and a 120 megapixel
version also changes everything for landscape, portrait
and fashion photographers!

**** I should note even though the above emails
**** state that photos of the prototype camera were taken
**** by 2nd/3rd parties, I DO NOT HAVE THOSE PHOTOS !!!

What do you think about the specs?

Does anybody have any 3rd party confirmation
of these specs to share with canon rumors?
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2011
16,697
1,663
I see that term confirmed several times. Rumors of medium format Canon cameras have been around for many years. I did not see any photos of the camera, or explanation of how someone managed to look at the sensor and see its size.

Apparently, the key was a extremely large lens? As in Cinema lens? I've had medium format cameras, lenses are a little larger, but not extremely large. I have a 135mm 4X5 lens that is smaller than most lenses I have seen. Cinema and broadcast lenses tend to be on the large side.
 

Ryananthony

EOS RP
Nov 7, 2015
498
2
neuroanatomist said:
It is confirmed that the word gullible is not in the dictionary.

I was thinking it read like a bad chain email. If I don't forward it to 10 people by midnight I or someone close to me will die/ I will have bad luck/ or I'll have a bad love life for eternity.
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
714
166
Mt Spokane Photography said:
I see that term confirmed several times. Rumors of medium format Canon cameras have been around for many years. I did not see any photos of the camera, or explanation of how someone managed to look at the sensor and see its size.

Apparently, the key was a extremely large lens? As in Cinema lens? I've had medium format cameras, lenses are a little larger, but not extremely large. I have a 135mm 4X5 lens that is smaller than most lenses I have seen. Cinema and broadcast lenses tend to be on the large side.

-----

I have to agree with you on the term "Confirmed".
I personally don't HAVE the said photos of the Canon MF
in the wild although i am TRYING to to get them!

I am relying more on the academic and working credentials
of my contacts who say THEY HAVE SEEN the photos and videos
in question and THEY ARE suitably impressed! They have not specified
the reasons as to WHY they haven't yet sent the photos and videos to me.

I am more and more BEGINNING to believe the veracity
of the spec claims due to their logical nature and KNOWN
assertions by actual Canon personnel indicating that H.265
and Motion Wavelet still photo/video compression and that
Large Medium Format Sensors have been in Canon's Research
and Development pipeline for a few years now.

I've actually personally SEEN a gigantic sensor from Canon
that was OVER 480 MEGAPIXELS from a 202mm x 205mm
(8 inches x 8.1 inches) chip which is somewhere around
26,000+ by 17,000+ pixels (approximately) if I
remember correctly which is used in Satellite
Earth Imaging and Astrophotography.
(it was announced in 2010 and I saw it at a astro/satellite-conference)

You could shoot 60 fps at 0.3 lux and at 9 microns per pixel
the image was STUNNING !!!! Canon CAN do Medium Format,
so again, I am more and more inclined to think Canon is working
on an MF revenue generator and having MANY professional
sports/news/fashion/portrait/wildlife photographers upgrade
to a 50 megapixel 25 fps Medium Format camera at 12 000 euros
a pop SOUNDS LIKE a good revenue generator to me!

If the MF size L-series lenses are made REALLY GOOD then
Canon would be RAKING IN THE REALLY BIG MONEY from
all those full-frame to MF professional photographer upgrades!

All I can say is that based upon all the grapevine talk I have been
hearing within the last two years, is that a NEW high-speed flagship
stills and video camera is on the way from Canon and it will be shooting
50 and 120 megapixels at 16 bits per colour channel using a very large
Global Shutter Sensor for high dynamic range!
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2011
16,697
1,663
Medium and large format cameras is a dying business, they are not selling, and companies are going out of business. Canon did look at buying into a MF camera company a while back, but decided to pass.

Its no secret as to where Canon is heading, they have shown their high level plans, and its not MF cameras. Certainly, they research and evel sell one of the huge sensors, and may well be talking with the military, it falls into the area where they have put up some billions of dollars - Surveillance cameras are big profit items in the police, military, government, and large companies. Its a fast growing market.

Canon has also been pumping money into Medical imaging, an0ther area that is a growth industry.

I can't see them spending billions of dollars developing large sensors, cameras, and lenses. They know that they would lose it all.
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
714
166
midluk said:
This definitely gets the [CRA] (A: April) rating.

----

This was NOT meant as an April Fools joke!
I received the emails quite a while ago
in February, so I am pretty sure it wasn't
meant for that.

My contacts are impeccable in terms terms
of their standing in still photography and
video engineering AND I understand there
are both photos AND video of the events
in Europe and Japan of the actual prototype
Canon MF cameras in question. I am TRYING
to obtain those photos and videos and
will present them if I can get them.

The specs themselves from what
I understand come from engineering
drawings obtained by "Certain Sources"
to which I am not privy to.

I'm not defending these statements
merely relaying them and as many
know or believe:

"Photos and Video or it didn't happen!"

I will see if there is some ability
to get that "proof" to all of you
here at canonrumors!
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,658
4,086
Irving, Texas
I'd be happy if this were true. If it isn't, oh well.

The problem is that this is a two kidney item and I only have one kidney remaining. That doesn't even count glass. :'(
 

Dekaner

EOS M6 Mark II
CR Pro
Apr 5, 2014
64
0
I have the Gura Gear Bataflae 32L (now the Tamrac G32). I highly recommend this bag and had no problem (well, except the weight), 2 gripped bodies, 1 non-gripped, 200-400, 70-200, 24-70, flash, extender, fisheye and a whole lot of other misc. accessories. I've also pulled out the dividers and put in a 200-400 and a 600 in it at the same time. It fits under the seat or overhead on the airplane (it's a tight fit, but it will go), has good shoulder padding, usable handles and a good waist belt. It's a bit of overkill if you're not putting a great white in it, but you could always look at the G26, which seems to simply be a bit shorter but otherwise the same.
 

eosuser1234

EOS 90D
Jul 16, 2013
162
35
Japan.
EF-M = EF- Medium Format. Using a the EF Canon LIFE SIZE converter (via 50mm F/2.5 Macro) , you can use your EF-M lenses on this new larger medium format sensor.
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
714
166
applecider said:
I so hope this is true because it would be the perfect camera to get pictures of Gigantopithecus blacki, which are reportedly endemic in the pacific NW though rarely well photographed.

While there is still some debate as to whether or not Sasquatch
(aka Bigfoot or a version of Gigantopithecus) might or might not
be real, it is rather difficult to dispute the reality of a Canon
8 inch sensor that has 480+ megapixels in it sitting in a
display case in front of me upon which the Canon rep standing
in front of said display case indicated to ME personally that
Medium Format is being looked at in the NEAR future by Canon!

An interesting conversation I had with a Canon Optics
manager that works in the Optical Microscope and
Microcircuit Mask Printing manufacturing portion
of Canon ADMITTED to me that 35mm/full frame
photography is a dying industry BUT that higher
end imaging is an area Canon has been spending
lots of Research dollars very recently.

But the interesting correlation of the above statement
is from my contacts in the Netherlands and Germany
that have said Canon MANAGERS from Japan have
told them that Canon is going to focus on three
areas of imaging:

a) Grab a huge piece of the Cell Phone/Smartphone market
away from Sony my making CANON-manufactured CMOS chips
for 4k small sensor sizes at 60 fps and 120 fps for the cheap
and mid-tier phones that have onboard image processing.
(i.e. glue a Digic to back of sensor)

b) Manufacturing bonded-together CMOS imaging and Digic/ARM CPU
image processing cores at 2/3 inch and one-inch CMOS sensor sizes
for flagship smartphones such as Apple and Samsung and that
SOME of these chips will be for 8k still photo and 24 to 120 fps 8k video!
i.e. 8000+ by 4500+ pixels which would be great!

c) Large Sensor EOS Sport Body Still Photo and Premium Cinema Camera
that can shoot AT OR GREATER THAN 24/25/30/50/60/100/120 fps at the
full sensor sizes to get the professional photographers to switch over
from 35mm/Full Frame to 65mm/70mm/4x5 Medium Format imaging.

If a large 65/70 mm sensor can image 8K+ (32, 50 and 120 megapixels)
at 24 fps and above, the pro sports, action, wildlife, news and magazine
photographers will simply have no issue with throwing anywhere from
10 000 Euros to 16 000 Euros for such high end gear.

The quality improvement of large sensors and higher frames rates
is just TOO GOOD TO PASS UP for any pro who is making a living
at this profession. All the pro sports shooters I know want SPEED
and when I asked what would they do if Canon has a 24+ fps
medium format camera at 50 megapixels, they said they would
dump their 35mm gear within 30 seconds of introduction to get
a loan for it even with the heavier lenses and bulkier camera!

That's 160 million euros spending spree for 10,000 units
right there at first year of introduction of such a system!
By 3rd and 4th year Canon would earn over 2 billion Euros
worldwide just for the pro photographers not to mention
bring that technology down to 120 million cell phones
EVERY YEAR if you put 8k+ Canon image sensors in smartphones!

So YES i believe my contacts! There is just too much money
at stake for Canon to have not done something already!

It's coming sooner or later! Canon 8K+ 2/3 inch, 1 inch
and MF-style sizes for Smartphones and Pro cameras
within one or two years at the most!
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2011
16,697
1,663
HarryFilm said:
It's coming sooner or later! Canon 8K+ 2/3 inch, 1 inch
and MF-style sizes for Smartphones and Pro cameras
within one or two years at the most!

Its no secret that Canon is working hard on 8K 2/3 and maybe super 35 sensors. They have partnered with NKG to develop them and a schedule is set.

It was also reported some time ago that Canon is entering the sensor selling business, they have already started.

Canon has been doing R&D on very large sensors, and has provided some for astronomy use.

However, getting into the MF format business, where high MP 35mm cameras have almost killed the market, is another story. The Camera could be certainly designed, it often takes astronomical amounts of money to develop and fine tune a sensor, and Canon is geared for high volume. Then there are lenses. The EOS M has been around gor years, and lenses are appearing very slowly. You can adapt to a EF lens though. But, who would pay $50,000 for a 250 MP large format camera with only one lens available, or even two or three? Sure, they could easily make a adapter for EF lenses and crop the image to the standard FF format. I wouldn't buy that.

I just do not see a company which specializes in high volume production making a camera for a very few customers. Its not good business. There may be research going on, and even prototypes, but they will never see volume production.
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,345
551
HarryFilm said:
If a large 65/70 mm sensor can image 8K+ (32, 50 and 120 megapixels)
at 24 fps and above, the pro sports, action, wildlife, news and magazine
photographers will simply have no issue with throwing anywhere from
10 000 Euros to 16 000 Euros for such high end gear.

The 5DSR is limited to 5fps
Apparently the 1Dx2 is limited to 20MP so that it can process and deliver 16fps.
So when, exactly, do you anticipate the processing power to deliver 24fps of a 200MP image in a body small enough to wield in the field?
I am pretty sure that every manufacturer is already trialling hard copies of fanciful lenses but at times these rumours remind me of the skunk works where trialling weird and unusual military aircraft is the UFO conspiracy theorist's dream.

Or is that what they want us to think.......[cue the theme to the twilight zone]....


HarryFilm said:
The quality improvement of large sensors and higher frames rates
is just TOO GOOD TO PASS UP for any pro who is making a living
at this profession. All the pro sports shooters I know want SPEED
and when I asked what would they do if Canon has a 24+ fps
medium format camera at 50 megapixels, they said they would
dump their 35mm gear within 30 seconds of introduction to get
a loan for it even with the heavier lenses and bulkier camera!

So why not just upgrade the speed of the 5DSr (50MP) with a new sensor and keep it as 35mm DSLR?

HarryFilm said:
It's coming sooner or later! Canon 8K+ 2/3 inch, 1 inch
and MF-style sizes for Smartphones and Pro cameras
within one or two years at the most!
2 years? To develop an as yet unseen processor and all the peripheries?
 

IglooEater

EOS R
Nov 15, 2014
904
0
Mikehit said:
HarryFilm said:
HarryFilm said:
It's coming sooner or later! Canon 8K+ 2/3 inch, 1 inch
and MF-style sizes for Smartphones and Pro cameras
within one or two years at the most!
2 years? To develop an as yet unseen processor and all the peripheries?

Have to admit that's a handy bit of information- it won't take too long to be proven wrong. I'll be back in two years- bookmarked.