Canon Will Announce Their First Full Frame Mirrorless in 2018 [CR3]

canonographer

EOS M50
Mar 10, 2014
39
0
Jack Douglas said:
".... and I would love to see Canon give me a reason to dream about coming back."

A dreamer. This is ridiculous for someone stating the wonders of what they have just bought into.

Jack

Thanks for letting me know that my gear obsession is ridiculous, but my wife's way ahead of you on that count.
 

canonographer

EOS M50
Mar 10, 2014
39
0
"Battery life for mirrorless still isn't good. Number of pictures is a poor measure there. The battery in my old 350D lasted for days, adding a second battery in my battery grip was never something I needed to consider. With mirrorless, not having a second battery feels somewhat risky. All this due to the viewfinder and rear screen."

FWIW, I just spent 4 days at the beach with my A7 III and shot about 500 shots, many of which were longer exposure shots of fireworks.

I never charged my battery and came home with more than 60% battery life left. I don't think my 6D could have done that.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
canonographer said:
FWIW, I just spent 4 days at the beach with my A7 III and shot about 500 shots, many of which were longer exposure shots of fireworks.

I never charged my battery and came home with more than 60% battery life left. I don't think my 6D could have done that.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but there really are two flavors of how I think of battery life comments.

1) If you principally shoot in LiveView, yes, I would disregard the constant battery life naysaying from the SLR crowd. So landscapers, video folks, possibly product folks, etc. should probably just shrug and pack an extra battery regardless of the platform they are using.

2) If you don't principally shoot in LiveView, I think one has a fair beef on how much longer your battery lasts on an SLR. That's just the nature of the beast.

- A
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Kit. said:
PerKr said:
And OVF is still better in some ways. Possibly the most expensive mirrorless cameras now have EVFs that have improved immensely but in my experience the WYSIWYG thing is far overrated in most cases. Not to mention what a PITA it is when you head into the studio and the camera manufacturer didn't think to make it easy to deactivate the WYSIWYG feature.
I'd say that for an experienced photographer, WISIWYG is actually better suited for a studio

really?

when I was working out of a studio, I would know what it the look would be like before I even looked behind the viewfinder. You should know what your lights will do, because you are setting them up with full control over the light and the ratios. an experienced studio photographer would look like a hack if they were looking through the camera, putting it down, adjusting the lights, looking through the camera again and so on.
 

Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,202
1,522
ahsanford said:
Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but there really are two flavors of how I think of battery life comments.

1) If you principally shoot in LiveView, yes, I would disregard the constant battery life naysaying from the SLR crowd. So landscapers, video folks, possibly product folks, etc. should probably just shrug and pack an extra battery regardless of the platform they are using.

2) If you don't principally shoot in LiveView, I think one has a fair beef on how much longer your battery lasts on an SLR. That's just the nature of the beast.
Actually, if you shoot in bursts, LiveView could give you much more shots per battery. Think of video as the extreme case.

rrcphoto said:
Kit. said:
I'd say that for an experienced photographer, WISIWYG is actually better suited for a studio
really?

when I was working out of a studio, I would know what it the look would be like before I even looked behind the viewfinder. You should know what your lights will do, because you are setting them up with full control over the light and the ratios. an experienced studio photographer would look like a hack if they were looking through the camera, putting it down, adjusting the lights, looking through the camera again and so on.
That was my point. You don't really wonder if you need to pull the highlights because you know that you won't (no need for OVF). But if you shoot something glossy, you would still like to see that there are no highlights where you don't want them to be.
 

jayphotoworks

EOS RP
Aug 11, 2016
267
111
ahsanford said:
canonographer said:
FWIW, I just spent 4 days at the beach with my A7 III and shot about 500 shots, many of which were longer exposure shots of fireworks.

I never charged my battery and came home with more than 60% battery life left. I don't think my 6D could have done that.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but there really are two flavors of how I think of battery life comments.

1) If you principally shoot in LiveView, yes, I would disregard the constant battery life naysaying from the SLR crowd. So landscapers, video folks, possibly product folks, etc. should probably just shrug and pack an extra battery regardless of the platform they are using.

2) If you don't principally shoot in LiveView, I think one has a fair beef on how much longer your battery lasts on an SLR. That's just the nature of the beast.

- A

It's actually significantly different for us video folks:

Canon's 5DIV can manage about 90min of 1080p footage with movie AF off using the rear lcd. Sony's A7III can manage about 125mins of actual recording based or 210 mins of continuous recording @ 4K w/ AF on.
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Kit. said:
That was my point. You don't really wonder if you need to pull the highlights because you know that you won't (no need for OVF). But if you shoot something glossy, you would still like to see that there are no highlights where you don't want them to be.

but but.. I'd know that. even if I didn't an EVF wouldn't help because you'd have to fire the flashes and look at the output anyways, there's no way an EVF is going to help you in this case.

the only way this would help you is with continual lighting.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
Don Haines said:
I'm hoping for a camera the size of a 6D2, with EF mount and will allow you to use EF-S lenses as well (with vignetting when open wide), the almost obligatory LP-6 battery, an a UHS-2 SD slot....

Fine, no problem. Canon should build it. Plus a much more compact FF mirrorless camera for me (and a few others). Things finally could be a lot less bulky and cludgy. :)

dv681qteyix52wlvm.jpg


Actually even a bit smaller than A7 III would be good. Sony A7 / 1st gen was more to my liking in terms of size. Form factor I would prefer "rangefinder" style without "fake prism hump" but with a pop-up EVF. Something like a "Sony RX-1RX II on steroids" and with a lens mount. :)
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,946
Canada
fullstop said:
Don Haines said:
I'm hoping for a camera the size of a 6D2, with EF mount and will allow you to use EF-S lenses as well (with vignetting when open wide), the almost obligatory LP-6 battery, an a UHS-2 SD slot....

Fine, no problem. Canon should build it. Plus a much more compact FF mirrorless camera for me (and a few others). Things finally could be a lot less bulky and cludgy. :)

Actually even a bit smaller than A7 III would be good. Sony A7 / 1st gen was more to my liking in terms of size. Form factor I would prefer "rangefinder" style without "fake prism hump" but with a pop-up EVF. Something like a "Sony RX-1RX II on steroids" and with a lens mount. :)

Remember when the M came out, and it only had 2 or three lenses? Technically, there is no reason why Canon could not do the same with a FF mirrorless. Such a form factor would be great for normal to wide angle shooting, but would have almost no benefit for those who want long or fast lenses..... So, just like the M, why can't Canon put out a FF mirrorless that takes a few slow and compact native lenses (and reap real benefits of small size) and use an adaptor to EF for those F1.4 lenses and the long lenses. There is little size benefit to be gained from fast or long lenses on a shorter flange size, so why bother?

As to user interface, the <edit> original <end edit> M interface sucks compared to the 5DIV or even the 6D2, but throw an articulated touchscreen on the back of the mirrorless and you can do an awful lot with just a few buttons. It will never be as good as a full sized body for controls, but it will certainly be good enough... and most certainly better than Sony...

Personally, I think we are going to see both.... An EF sized mirrorless plus a compact mirrorless with a few slow and very compact lenses, plus an EF adaptor. I think that the EF one will be first, and the compact one to soon follow. I can see me (eventually) getting both....

NOTE: If they went crazy with the sealing, plus a couple of constant length super sealed lenses, I would be fighting my way to the front of the line to get the compact one.....
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
Agree!

Would have no prob be happy with a compact one and a limited "EF-X" lens lineup at start. When needed I'd use my EF lenses [w/"adapter"].

User interface - no prob if it were about the same as on EOS M50. I don't need things like dedicated exposure comp dials [EV +/-] or top-LCDs. Ideally rear wheel would be a wheel [at least as on M5/M6] not just a 4-way rocker [as on M50].

I also believe they will do bigger and smaller camera versions. All of them with new "slim" mount, not some with EF-mount. :)

On lenses my ideal would be "reduced to the max". "AF only" - no manual focus ring. And even no zoom ring, but "Power Zoom" with control rocker on camera body ["P&S style"], provided implementation was *much better* than on P&S cameras - i.e. with very smooth and precise control over zoom. Ideally fixed aperture [f/4.0 zooms, f/1.8 to 2.8 primes], inner focus = fixed outer length, no rotation or z-axis movement of front element. Simple, robust, IP67 sealed, decent to excellent IQ, moderately fast, compact, light, affordable. Hi-grade plastic mount and tubus no problem. :)
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Don Haines said:
As to user interface, the M interface sucks compared to the 5DIV or even the 6D2, but throw an articulated touchscreen on the back of the mirrorless and you can do an awful lot with just a few buttons. It will never be as good as a full sized body for controls, but it will certainly be good enough... and most certainly better than Sony...

actually the M5 is closer to the 5D/6D interface than any other mirrorless. I can adjust WB, ISO, AF mode, drive mode, focus mode, metering mode, aperture, shutter, EC without really moving my hand off the right grip while looking through the viewfinder and without menu or quick menu diving.

while it's not as good as having the haptic direct control buttons such as the 5D Mark IV, the dial func button and control wheel is insanely useful and the combination just leaves other mirrorless in the dust for control without menu diving.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,946
Canada
rrcphoto said:
Don Haines said:
As to user interface, the M interface sucks compared to the 5DIV or even the 6D2, but throw an articulated touchscreen on the back of the mirrorless and you can do an awful lot with just a few buttons. It will never be as good as a full sized body for controls, but it will certainly be good enough... and most certainly better than Sony...

actually the M5 is closer to the 5D/6D interface than any other mirrorless. I can adjust WB, ISO, AF mode, drive mode, focus mode, metering mode, aperture, shutter, EC without really moving my hand off the right grip while looking through the viewfinder and without menu or quick menu diving.

while it's not as good as having the haptic direct control buttons such as the 5D Mark IV, the dial func button and control wheel is insanely useful and the combination just leaves other mirrorless in the dust for control without menu diving.


I meant to say the ORIGINAL M interface... The 6D2 or 5D4 versions of the touch interface, along with the better screen, are a joy to use.... If they release a compact FF mirrorless, I would expect it to start with at least this quality of touchscreen....
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,681
4,114
Irving, Texas
transpo1 said:
CanonFanBoy said:
dak723 said:
scyrene said:
The Fat Fish said:
I wonder how the 4K will be crippled in this one.

No 4K at all?
Poor codec?
Horrific crop?
No DPAF?

All are possible, at least one or two are likely. The wait for this camera is the only thing keeping me from jumping ship. This camera has to be competitive.

Yaaaawn. "Jump ship" or don't. More likely, you'll just keep injecting your negativity into these forums.

Yes, Just another Sony plant or a troll.

All together now: Jump! Jump! Jump! Jump! Please jump! etc.

And a lot of the negativity in this forum comes from those call others trolls when they request a certain feature. Just because you don’t need it does not mean it’s not a valid request for a Canon product.

But "requests" on this forum are DOA. Canon doesn't make decisions based on this forum. Besides, these "requests" are demands. Valid want? Sure. Request? So what? Some of these people act as though they are entitled. They constantly bash Canon to do what the other company's do. For years and years they do this. They threaten to "jump ship". Then, by God, jump ship and quit crying already. They aren't serious people. Serious people mean what they say and say what they mean. They just want to itch and moan. It gets old. Requesting or hoping is one thing. Acting like they are individually important to the market is another. Truth be told, they probably are not as good as the equipment they already have.
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,897
1,046
UK
www.flickr.com
canonographer said:
I would have to guess that neither of you has tried the latest generation of Sony cameras, because your examples of DSLR benefits are outdated.

Don't get me wrong there are still reasons not to buy into Sony's ecosystem, but the reasons you list above aren't among them.

AF performance, battery life, dynamic range, EVF superiority to name a few, all fall within the Sony column. I would put the focus tracking of my A7 III up against the 1DX any time. That's with a $2K camera, let alone the $4,500 A9 w/ 20 fps, no blackout shooting 693 focus points that cover most of the sensor. I'm telling you, this stuff just works, and it works like a charm.

Wait, are you saying the Sony mirrorless cameras have better battery life than Canon DSLRs? Especially the 1-series?? :eek:
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,850
2,471
Alberta, Canada
;D So the Sony will AF outperform my 1DX2 @ 800mm (400 DO II X2)? I know it feels good to make great claims but ... you're only fooling yourself. ;)

As another has stated, the best camera (whatever brand) is in your hands, assuming you're capable of using it. Personally, I'd rather see killer shots showing that Sony is superior than listen to bragging. IOW, post the shots and then we'll know for sure.

Jack
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,946
Canada
What we do know about the mirrorless release is that no matter what the specs are, that according to internet logic, it will be inferior to Sony..... and whatever the mount is, it will be the wrong one.....

And somehow, despite the complainers on this forum, it will sell well and people will take great pictures with it...... just like every single Canon release in the last ten years.....

And because of this camera, people will leave Canon in droves, yet somehow their market share improves....

Does anyone else see the disconnect between the trolls and reality?
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
Don Haines said:
What we do know about the mirrorless release is that no matter what the specs are, that according to internet logic, it will be inferior to Sony..... and whatever the mount is, it will be the wrong one.....

And somehow, despite the complainers on this forum, it will sell well and people will take great pictures with it...... just like every single Canon release in the last ten years.....

And because of this camera, people will leave Canon in droves, yet somehow their market share improves....

Does anyone else see the disconnect between the trolls and reality?

Wonder if the Dunning-Kruger effect has anything to do with it. The less you know the more it seems like magic is at work, magic that you can get out of a box.