Canon will release an APS-C RF mount camera(s) later in 2022 [CR3]

entoman

wildlife photography
May 8, 2015
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They can have the "M50" with RF mount...
The size of RF cameras can be reduced, e.g. by having a body without an EVF or a grip, but the diameter of the RF mount is greater than that of the M, and that will dictate the minimum size of the bodies.

Also, if Canon were to produce a very small RF body, they'd also have to produce a set of small lenses to go with it. It just makes more sense for Canon to keep the M series, especially as the development costs have almost certainly already been fully recouped, and they can just reap the profits from what remains a very popular line of products.
 
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7D2
Sep 30, 2021
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Only time will tell the future of EF-M, the system will be lighter and smaller then an APS-C RF and lens. As long as EF-M is making a good profit I don't see a reason why they would remove it. But if the APS-C RF ends up eating into the EF-M profits too much then I can see Canon phasing it out. I think they will just see how both systems go and take it from there.
Here in the UK I have only ever seen two people using the M system. When I chatted to my local dealer about it he said he doesn’t even stock them as they just don’t sell. Sounds like Japan and the US are the main markets for the system.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jul 21, 2010
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Here in the UK I have only ever seen two people using the M system. When I chatted to my local dealer about it he said he doesn’t even stock them as they just don’t sell. Sounds like Japan and the US are the main markets for the system.
That's interesting, because on amazon.co.uk, the M200 is the #1 bestselling MILC and the M50 II is the #2 bestselling DSLR (no idea why they categorize it as one).

Yet another example of people on this forum believing that their personal opinions and observations are somehow representative of the broader market.
 
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drhuffman87

Eos R, RF24-105 F4L, RF85 F2, EF200 F2.8L II
Nov 5, 2020
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I don't recall saying that there was no value to prime lenses. I only said I have no interest in them. But my point is that those interested in and buying prime lenses - or even f/2.8 zooms - is a minority of camera buyers - and almost certainly a small minority of M users and low-end DSLR users. And for me personally, I have no interest in primes for what I shoot - that doesn't mean others won't have - or even prefer- primes for the benefits they provide.

I think one obvious point about the target market for M buyers and APS-C DSLR buyers is that the kit lenses are always zooms. That target market wants 2 or 3 lenses maximum and still wants to cover the entire focal range they need. So zooms are far more convenient in that regard, which is why, for the majority of camera buyers, I believe convenience is more important than innovation and creativity, which was the point in the post I was commenting on.
It's true that you never mentioned there is no value in primes. That being said, the first thing I did when purchasing a rebel once upon a time, was pick up a nifty fifty for $125. A prime allowed me to shoot at f/1.8, while the bundled zoom would be at f/5.6 at the same focal length. In this day and age, the "convenience" of f/5.6 will give you the same images as a camera phone, while f/1.8 will provide a value that stands apart from the average joe. The entire reason of purchasing a stand-alone camera, rather that a $1000 smartphone, is to get images that someone without a camera would be incapable of capturing.
 
Jul 12, 2013
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I have successfully avoided visiting this thread until now--typically, the way that some (but not all) of the notions expressed on CR about the M remind me of the current debates here in America about vaccines (or ivermectin/hydroxychloroquine/evolution/abortion/immigration/gun control/gay marriage/transsexuals/religion/health care).

I've made my views on this general topic (i.e. the EF-M format) very clear...for years and years on this very board: to sum up--Canon would be foolish to cede the small-and-light, high-quality ILC market to Nikon and Sony. We have several M-format cameras in our family...we have images acquired using Canon's M that demanded the size, weight, volume (and stealthiness?!) of an M. Can you say Rolling Stones concert?

But here's why I've given in...and now posting this here...on my favorite Canon site.

In six days (weather and circumstances permitting), our family is meeting up in the Disney/Orlando area for two nights...and then Cocoa Beach FL for a week.

We've been at this for over thirty years (probably half as long as some who post here!).

The goal of this trip, for the entire family?

Vacation fun.

For me (but not the others), vacation fun includes photography--lots of photography (we've over 31K photos organized via jAlbum and posted online [password-protected])...and it is kind of neat to see loved ones who pooh-pooh the process of picture-taking...smile when they see the images weeks, months, years and now decades later. They are delighted I was persistent.

For everything from various -scapes (including land and ocean) and eclipses (solar and lunar), fireworks, Space Shuttle and SpaceX launches...to literally dozens of attractions at Walt Disney World, Universal Studios and Sea World, and spring training baseball as well as golf tournaments, Canon's M-format bodies and lenses have performed admirably during our trips to Florida. In fact most (but not all) of these images are indistinguishable from those acquired using a 5DMkIII and L-series lenses--especially with the M6MkII, a small, lightweight and UNOBSTRUSIVE piece of electronics that is a joy to use (but still not perfect).

In the next couple of days, I'll be deciding what to pack in my carry-on bag, a bag specifically designed to fit underneath a typical airline seat.

I'll be sure to pack:

*M6MkII (+charger and extra battery) & EVF-DC1 viewfinder
*EF-M 11-22 IS and 18-150 IS lenses
*270 EX-II flash
*Panasonic AA recharger
*(very smallish) lightweight (and rather flimsy) telescopic tripod designed for a small camcorder (but ideal for an M body mated to any M lens)
*Dell XPS 13 9380, charger and mouse
*Instand laptop stand
*power strip/surge protector

=====

I'm likely to pack:

M6 (with the EF-M 22 attached to it)
EF/EF-M adapter
EF 70-300 IS II; EF 35 f2 IS lenses

=====

All of these items, packed more-or-less individually inside separate padded bags, easily fit inside of an American Tourister piece of luggage that slides nicely under the Southwest Airlines seat in front of me.

Some (but not all) of this would not be possible with my EF (and, over the next several months, R) gear.

=====

And finally...(nearly) always in my pocket:

*iPhone 12 Pro Max

=====

Repeating myself:

Canon would be foolish to cede the small, high-quality market to Nikon and Sony. And there is room for both the R and M formats.

I keep reading that the M series does well in many parts of Asia. Maybe Canon will design and sell the M6MkIII in Japan.

Where and when do I sign up for that? It's been a bit over two years, I think, since the release of the M6MkII.

...it would not be my first purchase of an M (specifically, the M2) from Japan.

Thanks for reading.


EDIT: apparently the M200 (which I've considered purchasing...talk about slim and light) is the #1 mirrorless seller in the UK on amazon.

Thanks AlanF (two posts previous to this one...posted while I was constructing this mess)--just look at that list! The M200 is the only Canon entry...
 
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dcm

It's not the gear. But it helps.
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Apr 18, 2013
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Here in the UK I have only ever seen two people using the M system. When I chatted to my local dealer about it he said he doesn’t even stock them as they just don’t sell. Sounds like Japan and the US are the main markets for the system.

Assuming your local dealer is a camera store, I'm not surprised people don't buy M's there. That's not where the target market for the M shops for a camera. They shop on Amazon and at big box retailers like Best Buy. Part of knowing your customer is knowing where they shop.
 
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7D2
Sep 30, 2021
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That's interesting, because on amazon.co.uk, the M200 is the #1 bestselling MILC and the M50 II is the #2 bestselling DSLR (no idea why they categorize it as one).

Yet another example of people on this forum believing that their personal opinions and observations are somehow representative of the broader market.
I’m not suggesting I know better, just going from my observations out and about as well as the information from my local camera shop. There was also a story from Canon a couple of years back suggesting the M system was not doing well in Europe but very well in the US and Japan.

I do think it is an interesting system but sadly lacking in a few areas.
 

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7D2
Sep 30, 2021
111
337
Assuming your local dealer is a camera store, I'm not surprised people don't buy M's there. That's not where the target market for the M shops for a camera. They shop on Amazon and at big box retailers like Best Buy. Part of knowing your customer is knowing where they shop.
We all know the high street is *******. Outside the likes of Wex, camera shops are closing rapidly here. Shame as I used to enjoy seeing kit in person before buying.
 

AlanF

Stay at home
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Aug 16, 2012
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We all know the high street is *******. Outside the likes of Wex, camera shops are closing rapidly here. Shame as I used to enjoy seeing kit in person before buying.
Drive or cycle north to Cambridge. We have a proper camera shop Campkins, and the John Lewis departmental store has a decent photographic section with lots of the cheaper range as well as mid range.
 

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7D2
Sep 30, 2021
111
337
Drive or cycle north to Cambridge. We have a proper camera shop Campkins, and the John Lewis departmental store has a decent photographic section with lots of the cheaper range as well as mid range.
Good to hear. St Albans had three at on point, now just the one and it is awful. Watford had 4, but again down to one, plus John Lewis has closed there. High Wycombe had 4, now just one. MK has a decent size Wex, which is nice.
 
Jul 12, 2013
409
882
Drive or cycle north to Cambridge. We have a proper camera shop Campkins, and the John Lewis departmental store has a decent photographic section with lots of the cheaper range as well as mid range.
...oldest daughter studied (and worked) at Oxford Univ. A few years ago I think we visited T4 in Witney (on our way to the Cotswolds?):


...fair selection of R and M gear now (!); nice shop.
 

Czardoom

EOS RP
Jan 27, 2020
458
998
It's true that you never mentioned there is no value in primes. That being said, the first thing I did when purchasing a rebel once upon a time, was pick up a nifty fifty for $125. A prime allowed me to shoot at f/1.8, while the bundled zoom would be at f/5.6 at the same focal length. In this day and age, the "convenience" of f/5.6 will give you the same images as a camera phone, while f/1.8 will provide a value that stands apart from the average joe. The entire reason of purchasing a stand-alone camera, rather that a $1000 smartphone, is to get images that someone without a camera would be incapable of capturing.
If you believe that the ability to have a very narrow DOF is the only thing that separates an ILC camera as opposed to a smartphone, well, how can one argue with such a narrow point of view. If you think that a photographer needs primes to separate them from your "average joe", well, I have no primes and a large percentage of my photos are ones that a smartphone is incapable of capturing.

Again, the discussion I was commenting on is not about what I like or what you like, the point being discussed is what is the prevailing attitude of most camera buyers. Do they want innovation or low price and more convenience. I only brought up lenses in my original post as so many folks consider the M system dead due to the small numbre of lenses. You are obviously not in the target market for the M system. Nor am I anymore. That's not the point.
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
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That's interesting, because on amazon.co.uk, the M200 is the #1 bestselling MILC and the M50 II is the #2 bestselling DSLR (no idea why they categorize it as one).

Yet another example of people on this forum believing that their personal opinions and observations are somehow representative of the broader market.
So people buy them from Amazon because the local dealers don’t stock them, or the dealers don’t stock them because no one buys them locally, just from Amazon? Chicken or egg?
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jul 21, 2010
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So people buy them from Amazon because the local dealers don’t stock them, or the dealers don’t stock them because no one buys them locally, just from Amazon? Chicken or egg?
Although that is a relevant question for the dealers and for Amazon, it’s irrelevant here. The point is, a lot EOS M-series cameras are selling in the UK, so when someone claims they aren’t selling well there because that person has only seen a couple of them ‘in the wild’ and their local shoppe doesn’t carry them, their claim is refuted by the facts.
 

Deleted

7D2
Sep 30, 2021
111
337
Although that is a relevant question for the dealers and for Amazon, it’s irrelevant here. The point is, a lot EOS M-series cameras are selling in the UK, so when someone claims they aren’t selling well there because that person has only seen a couple of them ‘in the wild’ and their local shoppe doesn’t carry them, their claim is refuted by the facts.
Once again, I didn’t say they are not selling, just that I have only ever seen two people using them.

I am quite sure the type of person that buys a camera from Amazon is different to those who buy from camera stores.. We also don’t know the figures. That would be interesting. It is a shame Canon have not developed the system lens wise with only 8 lenses currently available.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
26,904
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Here in the UK I have only ever seen two people using the M system. When I chatted to my local dealer about it he said he doesn’t even stock them as they just don’t sell. Sounds like Japan and the US are the main markets for the system.
Once again, I didn’t say they are not selling, just that I have only ever seen two people using them.

So when you said you’ve only seen a couple of them in the UK and that it sounds like the US and Japan are the main markets for the M system, you weren’t implying that the UK is not a main market for it? Oh, ok then.
 

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7D2
Sep 30, 2021
111
337
So when you said you’ve only seen a couple of them in the UK and that it sounds like the US and Japan are the main markets for the M system, you weren’t implying that the UK is not a main market for it? Oh, ok then.
No, I wasn’t. Read into it what you will. In the past it has been stated that the strong market for the M system has been Japan and the US and less so in Europe. None of us have sales figures so we will never know. I am not attacking the system at all, which seems to be what you feel. These days we are blessed with a lot of choice, possibly too much for some. We have superb cameras from all brands with the main differences being ergonomics and lens availability. I think it is a great time to be a photographer.
 
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