Coming Tech & More [CR2]

[Edwin Herdman]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

Chuck Westfall is on the record saying OLED was "coming soon," back in 2009. That was after a 2007 acquisition of Tokki Corporation and a decision to "accelerate" OLED development in that year. Considering that OLED appears to be rolling out on a variety of devices now, I'd say it doesn't sound crazy at all. Probably the one "rumor" I've seen recently that I think is certain to translate to reality. A bit different from the SEDtv debacle.

Personally I'm still holding out hope for

It's video where you'll see the problems, unless they are doing binning instead of line skipping, which should help. All the more reason though, to split the line into great video with acceptable stills, and great stills with acceptable video.

Of course, the AA filter has really no impact at all on video moire - since (so far) the line more-than-skipping approach is the only one that there has been the data throughput and processing capability to utilize. I suppose that, going forward, they will have to start using at least some binning (maybe in conjunction with line skipping) else you won't see any improvement in dead / hot pixel effects, and moire certainly won't improve if they continue sampling a fixed resolution from an ever-growing number of pixels on the sensor. Hopefully the new DIGIC will represent a leap forward in that area.

 

[Canihaspicture]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

Dear Canon: If you can give me 14+ stops of DR then I will be your new best friend. Thanks (fingers crossed)

 

[bwhitz]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

4:2:2 is GREAT for video. Just hope it comes out sooner than later.

+1

If Canon uses their 4:2:2 50mb/s Mjpeg codec (which they probably will, since they don't want to license AVCHD from Sony/Panasonic) with 12-14 stops of DR... they are going to absolutely destroy every sub-$50,000 video device on the market. It will basically be a mini-Arri Alexa for around $3500. Not to mention the FF sensor, which is an amazing look not equaled by ANY other video medium besides Imax. Those "Proper video camera" guys will have to kiss the F3,FS100, and AF-100 goodbye... ;D

 

[Stuart]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

a multi level sensor i hope.

 

[bvukich]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

It's video where you'll see the problems, unless they are doing binning instead of line skipping, which should help. All the more reason though, to split the line into great video with acceptable stills, and great stills with acceptable video.

Of course, the AA filter has really no impact at all on video moire - since (so far) the line more-than-skipping approach is the only one that there has been the data throughput and processing capability to utilize. I suppose that, going forward, they will have to start using at least some binning (maybe in conjunction with line skipping) else you won't see any improvement in dead / hot pixel effects, and moire certainly won't improve if they continue sampling a fixed resolution from an ever-growing number of pixels on the sensor. Hopefully the new DIGIC will represent a leap forward in that area.

Good point, the frequency cutoff on the AA filter is way to high to have any tangible effect on video unless you were just cropping to get the pixels you need. Binning really is the way to go. You can bin semi-sanely from 8k->4k->2k, you just end up with a tiny crop factor up or down because of the non-sane resolution progression between each.

<videoresolutionrant>
They should have let an engineer come up with the standard resolutions. As it is now they can't even decide on a standard horizontal resolution for 4k.

If I were king...
Spec at academy ratio, and crop down the vertical as desired:
2k 2048x1536 3.1 MP
4k 4096x3072 12.6 MP
8k 8192x6144 50.3 MP
16k 16384x12288 201.3 MP

</videoresolutionrant>

 

[Edwin Herdman]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

Good point on the resolution. At the price points of even "2K" video projectors and cameras, though, I think the real driver has probably been old-fashioned industry rivalry. Hey, if you ain't got 70mm you're nobody! Then there's the real name of the Sony sound standard "SDDS" ..."still doesn't do $&@!" All more headaches for projectionists. Of course, consumers have been thankfully insulated from a lot of this, mainly because modern computer / display hardwares are becoming sophisticated enough to stretch most content invisibly to the consumer and to a more or less reasonable degree of quality.

 

[FredBGG]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

"massive jump in dynamic range"
This would be very interesting, but it would be silly if this "massive jump in dynamic range" were not included in the flagship camera.

 

[gferdinandsen]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

Honestly, the only thing I care about in that rumour is DR. Battery life is not a big deal, and I don't shoot video. Even extra MP is just pushing the limits, my PXMIA 9500 can't even print a 21.3 MP print at 100%, and I have only ever once printed something larger (a scan printedd at 18x24)...none the less, I have a friend who will buy my 5D2, so I guess I will get a 5D3 when availaible.

 

[kubelik]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

Honestly, the only thing I care about in that rumour is DR. Battery life is not a big deal, and I don't shoot video. Even extra MP is just pushing the limits, my PXMIA 9500 can't even print a 21.3 MP print at 100%, and I have only ever once printed something larger (a scan printedd at 18x24)...none the less, I have a friend who will buy my 5D2, so I guess I will get a 5D3 when availaible.

plenty of folks here print larger than that ... much larger. it would be great not to have to stitch multiple images together to get 24x36 or 30x40 prints, especially when its not landscapes but buildings you're photographing

 

[Super Mario]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

Good point, the frequency cutoff on the AA filter is way to high to have any tangible effect on video unless you were just cropping to get the pixels you need. Binning really is the way to go. You can bin semi-sanely from 8k->4k->2k, you just end up with a tiny crop factor up or down because of the non-sane resolution progression between each.

<videoresolutionrant>
They should have let an engineer come up with the standard resolutions. As it is now they can't even decide on a standard horizontal resolution for 4k.

If I were king...
Spec at academy ratio, and crop down the vertical as desired:
2k 2048x1536 3.1 MP
4k 4096x3072 12.6 MP
8k 8192x6144 50.3 MP
16k 16384x12288 201.3 MP

</videoresolutionrant>

You shouldn't really worry about that since 1080p on Canon cameras is "fake 1080p" and in reality closer to 720p. Lets just wait if they can come up with a real 1080p first.

 

[gkreis]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

Honestly, the only thing I care about in that rumour is DR.

I still have my old trusty 40D as I wait out the 7D,60D, etc. family of sensors. If they can give a big jump in DR with a tech improvement that is introduced across the sensor lines then I will be TICKLED! My wait will be worth it. Give us even lower noise and 2 stops more in DR and I am finally going to own a 7D2.... drats... I am hooked in the Rumors again.

Oh no......

 

[NotABunny]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

But once you're photon limited the only way to increase DR is by lowering the base sensitivity, expect a glass ceiling.

A DRAMATIC increase in dynamic range (and reduction in noise) can be achieved with tricks like multiple ISO readings of the same exposure. Of course, if they only mean a dramatic increase then maybe they have some fancy tech that does it.

OLED is also very welcome, I can already imagine the screen of my Galaxy S on a canon camera (drool)

That's what I was expecting they meant with "surprise", something not to big, not too small. SAMOLED+ is bloody brilliant on my SGS2. Of course, on a photo camera there may be other requirements in terms of color calibration (especially over time).

I have no idea how the LCDs from the 7D / 60D look in direct sun light, but my display is usable, at least on par with similar LCD based PDAs from the competition.

 

[Stuart]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

Battery life is very useful for continuas video use.

 

[Flake]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

If they are going to use an OLED back light I do hope they manage to put a decent one in. Apple crippled the iMac by using a cheap OLED which has a narrow Gamut and a response which is anything by linear. By comparison Dells U2711 uses the same panel but has a conventional back light & is a supreme performer. There's more to a back light than many people think!

More battery life is nice but not if that involves me having to change all the LP-E6 batteries and replace them with larger ones like the NP-E3

More dynamic range is always welcome, but I'll not be selling the ND grads just yet!

As for video I don't use it a great deal (not normally professional but some do want it) but any progress is welcome.

 

[AG]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

If they are going to use an OLED back light I do hope they manage to put a decent one in. Apple crippled the iMac by using a cheap OLED which has a narrow Gamut and a response which is anything by linear. By comparison Dells U2711 uses the same panel but has a conventional back light & is a supreme performer. There's more to a back light than many people think!

Um you may want to check your details on that claim.

As far back as i can remember Apple have been Anti OLED

 

[senduran]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

If they are going to use an OLED back light I do hope they manage to put a decent one in. Apple crippled the iMac by using a cheap OLED

Um you may want to check your details on that claim.

As far back as i can remember Apple have been Anti OLED

Err, you're both talking nonsense. Firstly there's no such thing as an OLED back light. OLED displays do not have backlights. Apple use LED backlights in their LCD monitors.

Secondly, OLED is relatively new tech and only available cheaply in small sizes, so is "as far back as [you] can remember" only 1-3 years? Apple have never been "anti" OLED, the tech just isn't mature enough yet. Apple is eager to use OLED, what with their multiple patents needing them.

On-topic, for those who actually know what an OLED display is, it's a great feature to look forward to on Canon cameras.

 

[-zero-]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

You shouldn't really worry about that since 1080p on Canon cameras is "fake 1080p" and in reality closer to 720p. Lets just wait if they can come up with a real 1080p first.

Care to explain that?

 

[kubelik]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

If they are going to use an OLED back light I do hope they manage to put a decent one in. Apple crippled the iMac by using a cheap OLED

Um you may want to check your details on that claim.

As far back as i can remember Apple have been Anti OLED

Err, you're both talking nonsense. Firstly there's no such thing as an OLED back light. OLED displays do not have backlights. Apple use LED backlights in their LCD monitors.

Secondly, OLED is relatively new tech and only available cheaply in small sizes, so is "as far back as [you] can remember" only 1-3 years? Apple have never been "anti" OLED, the tech just isn't mature enough yet. Apple is eager to use OLED, what with their multiple patents needing them.

On-topic, for those who actually know what an OLED display is, it's a great feature to look forward to on Canon cameras.

yep. OLEDs can be done well or poorly, just like LCDs and LEDs. done well, OLEDs provide excellent viewing and save on weight and size, as well a energy consumption, which is critical when we're talking about the back screen on a DSLR. chimpers rejoice.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

You shouldn't really worry about that since 1080p on Canon cameras is "fake 1080p" and in reality closer to 720p. Lets just wait if they can come up with a real 1080p first.

Care to explain that?

I would also like an explanation of the 'closer to 720p' part. Is the 'p' part fake? With Canon camcorders, when you record at 30p or 24p, it's really recording at 60i but outputing 30p/24p. But you're still getting the full 1920x1080 resolution, so I have no idea where the 720 statement comes from.

 

[NotABunny]

Re: Coming Tech & More [CR2]

I would say that the gamut of the SAMOLED+ on SGS2 is (about) aRGB because I can compare it to my NEC desktop (which is about 98/99 % aRGB).

(In OLED, the pixel itself is emitting light, which means that black has virtually no light loss - there actually is some when the display is totally black and seen in total darkness.)