Don’t expect any third-party autofocus lenses in the near future

SNJ Ops

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Canon’s UK pricing is a subject of frequent complaints, as it is higher than elsewhere in the world and Sony/Nikon don’t do that.

I wonder about the trinity price comparison if grey market HK imports were considered.


Again, Canon doesn’t seem to care, and the business case suggests keeping the RF mount closed is the right position for them.

But to be clear, you mean cheaper alternatives for the lenses you want. Show us a zoom trinity for Sony or Nikon FF spanning 15-400mm that’s cheaper than US$1500 / £1850.
I did mentioned in my post lenses that meet the needs of professionals and enthusiasts which is what I mean. I'm sure for some of them they could well find uses for variable aperture zooms. However there are also many use cases where those lenses won't be suitable, weddings and events come to mind. For users on lower budgets that trinity is a great price absolutely but again for those that need more but can't afford the L series zooms what do they do?
 
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neuroanatomist

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For users on lower budgets that trinity is a great price absolutely but again for those that need more but can't afford the L series zooms what do they do?
For most, given Canon’s installed base, the answer is probably to just use an adapter with the EF L zoom trinity they already have.
 
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Jonathan Thill

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Here in the UK the f2.8 holy trinities cost

Canon - 15-35mm, 24-70mm and 70-200mm = £7437

Sony - 16-35mm, 24-70mm and 70-200mm = £6697

Nikon - 14-24mm, 24-70mm and 70-200mm = £7397

To A LOT of shooters all of those options are overpriced or they appreciate the value of those options but simply can’t afford them. So for those people what can they do?

On Sony they can build an alternative f2.8 trinities with 3rd party glass that are more than good enough for the needs and wants of professionals and enthusiasts.

Sigma 14-24mm f2.8 DG DN - £1299
Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 DG DN - £1049
Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 = £1149
Total = £3497

Tamron 17-28mm f2.8 = £849
Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 = £849
Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 = £1149
Total = £2847

Nikon will have their own lower cost alternative f2.8 trinity once their 70-180mm f2.8 arrives.

On Canon there are no alternatives natively so its adapting EF glass which for some is a perfect solution but for others it won’t be.

Again the issue for many isn’t that Canon has the high end high cost glass. Its the fact that natively there aren’t any alternatives available even from Canon themselves.
So you agree when people state that Canon RF glass is overpriced that is not in fact true when compared to like for like 1st party offerings?

Can we agree this is more accurate statement?

"Canon RF glass is competitively priced compared to other 1st party glass but fails to offer the value proposition of 3rd party glass"

Canon also does not seem to get any credit for their excellent f4 offerings or the STM line up. Hell one of my first RF lenes was the RF 35mm 1.8 and I still love that little thing.
 
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dlee13

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For most, given Canon’s installed base, the answer is probably to just use an adapter with the EF L zoom trinity they already have.
And what about for those who don’t have any existing EF lenses? Do they go for those heavier overpriced options still?

So you agree when people state that Canon RF glass is overpriced that is not in fact true when compared to like for like 1st party offerings?

Can we agree this is more accurate statement?

"Canon RF glass is competitively priced compared to other 1st party glass but fails to offer the value proposition of 3rd party glass"

Canon also does not seem to get any credit for their excellent f4 offerings or the STM line up. Hell one of my first RF lenes was the RF 35mm 1.8 and I still love that little thing.
"Canon RF glass is competitively priced compared to other 1st party glass in the US ONLY and is greatly overpriced in other countries but fails to offer the value proposition of 3rd party glass"

Fixed that for you ;)
 
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neuroanatomist

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And what about for those who don’t have any existing EF lenses? Do they go for those heavier overpriced options still?
If they want and can afford them, sure. There’s also the lighter and less expensive f/4 L zoom trinity. Or non-L RF lenses. Or used EF lenses. Or 3rd party EF mount lenses. Or Nikon. Or Sony. Choice is good.
 
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Jonathan Thill

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And what about for those who don’t have any existing EF lenses? Do they go for those heavier overpriced options still?


"Canon RF glass is competitively priced compared to other 1st party glass in the US ONLY and is greatly overpriced in other countries but fails to offer the value proposition of 3rd party glass"

Fixed that for you ;)
Hmm, I guess "fixed" means something different where you are from.

I live in Canada and our pricing looks a lot like the US prices across the brands. Oh and about the Australian prices make sure to factor in the 5 year warranty on Canon glass when adding up those totals. ;)

Cheers
 
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neuroanatomist

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I think Canon is losing out if they are shutting RF lens production to 3rd party manufacturers and exclusively offering them. This will only hurt them and the people who might be scraping nickels and dimes that want an inexpensive lens.
Canon obviously thinks differently than you. I am confident the company that has led the ILC market for two decades knows more about that market than you. They clearly don’t believe shutting out 3rd party AF lenses for the RF mount will hurt them.

I do agree that it hurts people on a tight budget. Unfortunately for them, Canon is a for-profit corporation not a philanthropic organization.

It seems like Canon is a few steps back in regards to a few brands in my opinion and having to play a lot of catch up everytime I read about other brands bringing products out while we wait and wait.
Last year (2021), 48% of ILCs sold were Canon. Sony was at ~22% and Nikon was at ~14%. Compared to 2020, Canon modest increase (2.5% gain) was bigger than Sony’s (1.9%).

I guess it depends on what you mean by ‘catching up’. Sounds like you mean Canon is behind in bringing out the products that you personally want. That’s a valid concern, but it really is a you problem.

I'm just being a bit grunted that's all. Rant over.
Oh, I should have read to the end. Ranting doesn’t require logic or acknowledgement of facts. All good. ;)
 
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Ozarker

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I think Canon is losing out if they are shutting RF lens production to 3rd party manufacturers and exclusively offering them. This will only hurt them and the people who might be scraping nickels and dimes that want an inexpensive lens.
Every time someone says this I am left dumbfounded. How in the world does it hurt Canon to make the lens sale? Somebody looking to buy an additional lens already has the camera. Sometimes it seems people think there's no profit in lenses for Canon, and that the body sale is all that matters.
 
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unfocused

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Every time someone says this I am left dumbfounded. How in the world does it hurt Canon to make the lens sale? Somebody looking to buy an additional lens already has the camera. Sometimes it seems people think there's no profit in lenses for Canon, and that the body sale is all that matters.
A related question. How in the world does it help Canon to lose a lens sale to Sigma or Tamron?
 
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SNJ Ops

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A related question. How in the world does it help Canon to lose a lens sale to Sigma or Tamron?
There are different types of customers when it comes to lenses - OEM only, mix of OEM and 3rd party, 3rd party only.

The 1st group is the one the Canon is currently catering too.

The 2nd group is itself a mix of people. It
includes shooters that have over 90% OEM glass but a couple of 3rd party options complete their kit. While Canon has no obligation to accommodate them its still potentially lost customers. How many remains to be seen.

The last group perhaps is of little interest to Canon even though they are still would be buyers of Canon bodies. However they have the potential to join the 2nd group over time. These users perhaps will switch to another system.

As for Canon dominating the market that is certainly true when DSLR market share is included. As most would agree sales of DSLRs are decreasing and development of new DSLR bodies and lenses has already stopped for Canon and Nikon. The mirrorless market has Canon and Sony leading with very little between them overall. Sometimes one is ahead and then the other.

On the adapting issue there are users who will opt for 3rd party EF glass so Canon is still loosing a potential lens sale anyway. Perhaps with a license they could get a smaller cut of revenue rather than none at all.
 
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Del Paso

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And what about for those who don’t have any existing EF lenses? Do they go for those heavier overpriced options still?


"Canon RF glass is competitively priced compared to other 1st party glass in the US ONLY and is greatly overpriced in other countries but fails to offer the value proposition of 3rd party glass"

Fixed that for you ;)
Just take a look at the pricing of G Master II lenses in Europe (Calumet), no advantage over RF lenses.
2,8/70-200: Sony 2999,- RF 2849,-
2,8/24-70: Sony 2399,- RF 2499,-
RF "greatly overpriced in other countries"? Maybe in Northern Yemen...
 
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SNJ Ops

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Just take a look at the pricing of G Master II lenses in Europe (Calumet), no advantage over RF lenses.
2,8/70-200: Sony 2999,- RF 2849,-
2,8/24-70: Sony 2399,- RF 2499,-
RF "greatly overpriced in other countries"? Maybe in Northern Yemen...
Canon EF 35mm f1.4 L II - £2099
Sony 35mm f1.4 GM - £1499

Canon RF 50mm f1.2 - £2589
Sony 50mm f1.2 - £2099

Canon 100-500 L - £2899
Sony 100-400 GM - £2149

Canon EF 24mm f1.4 L II - £1579
Sony 24mm f1.4 GM - 1299

Canon 70-200 f2.8 RF - £2699
Sony 70-200 f2.8 GM II - £2599

Bar the last example there’s sometimes a massive price difference here in the UK.
 
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Del Paso

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Canon EF 35mm f1.4 L II - £2099
Sony 35mm f1.4 GM - £1499

Canon RF 50mm f1.2 - £2589
Sony 50mm f1.2 - £2099

Canon 100-500 L - £2899
Sony 100-400 GM - £2149

Canon EF 24mm f1.4 L II - £1579
Sony 24mm f1.4 GM - 1299
1429
Canon 70-200 f2.8 RF - £2699
Sony 70-200 f2.8 GM II - £2599

Bar the last example there’s sometimes a massive price difference here in the UK.
Massive in the 35mm & 24mm's case, yes (in the UK). But, even in the UK, the GM IIs cost massively more than their GM predecessors.
And the RF 100-500 shouldn't be compared with a GM 100-400.
PS: the EF 1,4/35 costs Euro 1749 in Europe, the EF 24mm Euro 1429 (both less in GBP). I often read (here) that Canon's UK pricing was "strange", to express it politely...
 
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dlee13

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Just take a look at the pricing of G Master II lenses in Europe (Calumet), no advantage over RF lenses.
2,8/70-200: Sony 2999,- RF 2849,-
2,8/24-70: Sony 2399,- RF 2499,-
RF "greatly overpriced in other countries"? Maybe in Northern Yemen...
And that’s where the whole point of this thread comes in, for the FE mount you have the excellent Sigma DN and Tamron options which are just as good as those lenses but much cheaper and on Canon they don’t exist.

So even if Sony Europe charge a lot, you have the option of modern third party lenses which Canon don’t give you.
 
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Del Paso

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And that’s where the whole point of this thread comes in, for the FE mount you have the excellent Sigma DN and Tamron options which are just as good as those lenses but much cheaper and on Canon they don’t exist.

So even if Sony Europe charge a lot, you have the option of modern third party lenses which Canon don’t give you.
Not yet, or do you have certainties no one else has?
 
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dlee13

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Not yet, or do you have certainties no one else has?
You say not yet as if you have a certainty that they’re coming so no different to my statement.

Fact is for someone right now (and the foreseeable future) buying into a new system or looking to move to Mirrorless, aknots every brand but Canon offers better value option lenses than Canon does.
 
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neuroanatomist

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I often read (here) that Canon's UK pricing was "strange", to express it politely...
Unfair seems like an apt descriptor. But it’s a small market, sadly grappling with a self-made economic crisis. I don’t see Canon changing their pricing policy for the UK, which can give residents a skewed view of global pricing.
 
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