DPReview reviews the A7R3

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
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Spoiler alert: they love it. ::)

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-mark-iii-review

I don't get the 'grip has gotten deeper' statement. It looks just like an A9 to me (see pic vs. A7R2), which seems to be more of a thicker body than a bigger/deeper grip. Am I missing something?

I still contend the grip size/depth + grip proximity to the mount simply do not play with big glass, and a vertical grip does nothing to solve that. In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A
 

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ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
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But meanwhile, from the very same publication, apparently eating stars is still an issue:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/3195011528/analysis-the-sony-a7r-iii-is-still-a-star-eater

I'm not an astro person, but FYI if you are.

- A
 

bwud

EOS RP
Sep 3, 2014
305
10
ahsanford said:
But meanwhile, from the very same publication, apparently eating stars is still an issue:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/3195011528/analysis-the-sony-a7r-iii-is-still-a-star-eater

I'm not an astro person, but FYI if you are.

- A


I am not either, but I am somewhat befuddled that they don’t make the spatial filtering a menu option. I suspect leadership is so sensitive to noise that they don’t want any possibility of people disabling it and then publishing “look how noisy the A7Rii and A7Riii are.”

Note that while the filtering still occurs, by their real world test it’s less impactful than with A7Rii. Perhaps Sony tweaked its aggressiveness due to better overall noise performance.
 

Neutral

EOS RP
Oct 19, 2012
342
17
ahsanford said:
Spoiler alert: they love it. ::)

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-mark-iii-review

I don't get the 'grip has gotten deeper' statement. It looks just like an A9 to me (see pic vs. A7R2), which seems to be more of a thicker body than a bigger/deeper grip. Am I missing something?

I still contend the grip size/depth + grip proximity to the mount simply do not play with big glass, and a vertical grip does nothing to solve that. In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A

Marked red is very exaggerated statement.
Maybe this is problem #1 for you, but not for a lot of others.
I do not have any issues or inconveniences with the grip on my A9 using big lenses - not with Canon 70-200 or Canon 100-400 with Metabones adaptor and not now with native 100-400 GM lens .
The same will be for a7rIII which I also planning for my a7r2 replacement.
All the advantages for a9 and a7r3 overweight any possible inconveniences.
And as I mentioned earlier the only advantage of my 1DXm2 over Sony a9 is AF-C for single AF point where 1DXm2 is much better and much more reliable than A9. And also that it is solid heavy brick which could be easily used for self defense if required. For the rest a9 is superior to 1DXm2. Also video quality from a9 is amazing and especially when fast AF tracking combined with face recognition. Works extremely well for shooting video of dances especially in very low light at night. So now I am using 1DXm2 only in cases where I need reliable tracking using single AF point for the rest a9 works better for me.
Only people who use both brands (like me) could tell real experience with them.
Comparing specs and pictures do not replace real experience ))
For me I am neutral to any brand - I just use what is more convenient now for me and give better results.
 

ahsanford

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Aug 16, 2012
8,617
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Neutral said:
ahsanford said:
In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A

Marked red is very exaggerated statement.
Maybe this is problem #1 for you, but not for a lot of others.

Not exaggerated, just how I feel. I walked into B&H in Manhattan and played around with an A7R2 with some stout f/2.8 zoom on it. It felt like wielding my old 24-70 f/2.8L I on my Canon T1i -- doable but not comfortable or sustainable for long periods. Yes, you don't solely hold your kit with your right hand, but when you do it should be more comfortable and stable.

And the proximity of that smaller grip to the mount is problematic for the GM lenses, which dives out diametrically and leaves little real estate for fingers. (From TDP, below)

But I recognize others are fine with the A7/A9 grips. I'd honestly be fine with it if a 35 f/2 or (tiny double gauss) fast 50 was permanently affixed to it. But people are going to put big f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms on it, and the grip should reflect that need.

So, yeah. I stand by the grip size / proximity to the mount as that platform's #1 drawback.

- A
 

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neuroanatomist

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Jul 21, 2010
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Neutral said:
ahsanford said:
Spoiler alert: they love it. ::)

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-mark-iii-review

I don't get the 'grip has gotten deeper' statement. It looks just like an A9 to me (see pic vs. A7R2), which seems to be more of a thicker body than a bigger/deeper grip. Am I missing something?

I still contend the grip size/depth + grip proximity to the mount simply do not play with big glass, and a vertical grip does nothing to solve that. In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A

Marked red is very exaggerated statement.
Maybe this is problem #1 for you, but not for a lot of others.

Marked in blue very clearly indicated that's his personal perception, regardless of others.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
And I still don't get why the grip isn't chunkier for other reasons than comfort with big glass -- there's little reason for it not to be bigger except for the tiny lens travel crowd.

See the attached. Unless folks are packing a mirrorless rig with no lens attached, adding a bigger might mean a larger volume of camera, but it will still take up the same amount of space in your bag with a lens attached, and that chunkier grip will net you a larger battery and unlock the top of the grip for an LCD.

- A
 

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Woody

EOS R
Jul 20, 2010
1,157
82
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
 

9VIII

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 8, 2013
1,843
0
ahsanford said:
Neutral said:
ahsanford said:
In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A

Marked red is very exaggerated statement.
Maybe this is problem #1 for you, but not for a lot of others.

Not exaggerated, just how I feel. I walked into B&H in Manhattan and played around with an A7R2 with some stout f/2.8 zoom on it. It felt like wielding my old 24-70 f/2.8L I on my Canon T1i -- doable but not comfortable or sustainable for long periods. Yes, you don't solely hold your kit with your right hand, but when you do it should be more comfortable and stable.

And the proximity of that smaller grip to the mount is problematic for the GM lenses, which dives out diametrically and leaves little real estate for fingers. (From TDP, below)

But I recognize others are fine with the A7/A9 grips. I'd honestly be fine with it if a 35 f/2 or (tiny double gauss) fast 50 was permanently affixed to it. But people are going to put big f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms on it, and the grip should reflect that need.

So, yeah. I stand by the grip size / proximity to the mount as that platform's #1 drawback.

- A

Seriously, Ahsanford, you should look into changing your grip style. At least sometimes.
If you have pain from using one grip over many years it would probably do you good to change it up.

If I wanted to I could shoot BIF all day using my 400f5.6+1100D firing it with a remote release in my right pocket.
My arm would be tired, but I wouldn't have joint pain.
Granted, I also have a set of big dumbbells sitting beside my chair, but it sounds like I'm using an entirely different muscle set to support my camera, using much larger joints (indicating potential for more longevity).

I definitely agree that the grip size is still virtually irrelevant though. I mean, ideally my next Canon body wouldn't have a grip, I would take a tubular body in a heartbeat (the battery is probably the biggest reason for cameras still having a grip), but as long as the camera has a grip at all the amount that it sticks out forward is far less than the length of almost any lens you would use.
 

bwud

EOS RP
Sep 3, 2014
305
10
ahsanford said:
And I still don't get why the grip isn't chunkier for other reasons than comfort with big glass -- there's little reason for it not to be bigger except for the tiny lens travel crowd.

Business strategy.

Sony leadership cites the ability to be small not as a, but as the number one advantage to the system. So they go all in on small even if to some users, myself included, comfort is negatively impacted. The thickness of the grip I don't find irksome, but I wish it were another 1/2" taller.
 

Neutral

EOS RP
Oct 19, 2012
342
17
Woody said:
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially a9 are much more customizable cameras even than 1dxm2.
If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time. And a9 menu is very good - same level of convinience as on 1DXm2.
I've been using both systems for years already and for me such statements are just full nonsence.
Biggest inconvinience and irritation for me is completely different area - no sensor protection from dust during lens replacement. Sensor immidiately gets dust like vaccume cleaner especially if you need to replace lense outdoor. This is generic problem for any mirrorless camera. DSLR is much better in this respect as sensor is behind mirror when you changing lens.
Lense replacemet mode would be great - have protection curtain closing sensor while this mode is activated for lense replacement. And in addition self cleaning method for this protection curtain.
But this requires additional space in camera and some additional mechanical parts that would increase size and cost of the camera.
 

bwud

EOS RP
Sep 3, 2014
305
10
Neutral said:
If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time.

Agreed. I access the menu for exactly 4 reasons:
Toggle Setting Effect on or off depending on ambient light conditions
Format memory card
Toggle RAW quality
Toggle airplane mode and wirelessly transfer photos

When my Riii gets here, I plan to map them all to the new custom menu. I'm also hoping setting effect is mappable to a custom button (I'd use the video button which is finally mappable), and alternately use the 1,2,3 settings memory selections to record that change, as well as uncompressed RAW (it's still annoying that they don't offer lossless compression).

If it works the way I'm planning, I'd only go to the menus to format and initiate wireless transfer, both from the custom menu.
 

neuroanatomist

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Jul 21, 2010
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Neutral said:
Woody said:
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially a9 are much more customizable cameras even than 1dxm2.

I have tried the a7R and the a7RII, and the menus are poorly organized. I'm sure if I adopted the system, I could get used to it.

quotes-about-being-hanged-1.jpg
 

privatebydesign

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Jan 29, 2011
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neuroanatomist said:
Neutral said:
Woody said:
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially a9 are much more customizable cameras even than 1dxm2.

I have tried the a7R and the a7RII, and the menus are poorly organized. I'm sure if I adopted the system, I could get used to it.

quotes-about-being-hanged-1.jpg

I was watching a video review on the D850 earlier, good god is that a convoluted drill down menu, I couldn't believe how complex and unintuitive it was.
 

bwud

EOS RP
Sep 3, 2014
305
10
privatebydesign said:
neuroanatomist said:
Neutral said:
Woody said:
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially a9 are much more customizable cameras even than 1dxm2.

I have tried the a7R and the a7RII, and the menus are poorly organized. I'm sure if I adopted the system, I could get used to it.

quotes-about-being-hanged-1.jpg

I was watching a video review on the D850 earlier, good god is that a convoluted drill down menu, I couldn't believe how complex and unintuitive it was.

I can navigate the A7Rii menu now, but have never been able to comprehend Nikon’s menus. Regardless, when considering menu functions and overall intuitiveness, I prefer a camera whose menu I have to navigate infrequently more than one whose menu is easily navigable. With my 5Diii, I have previously set up AF settings and assigned them to C modes on the dial so rarely do anything besides format. Similar menu access with my A7Rii, with the additional functions above as well (hopefully made irrelevant with A7Riii).
 

Woody

EOS R
Jul 20, 2010
1,157
82
Neutral said:
Woody said:
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially a9 are much more customizable cameras even than 1dxm2.

My company owns 3 copies of A7S, 1 copy of A7SII, 1 copy of A7R and 1 copy of A9 with Sony FE 24-70 f/4 and multiple copies of FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS.

I have used them all. I know what I am talking about.

The A9 is an improvement, but the ergonomics still s***s.
 

Dylan777

EOS-1D X Mark III
Nov 17, 2011
5,514
9
bwud said:
Neutral said:
If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time.

Agreed. I access the menu for exactly 4 reasons:
Toggle Setting Effect on or off depending on ambient light conditions
Format memory card
Toggle RAW quality
Toggle airplane mode and wirelessly transfer photos

When my Riii gets here, I plan to map them all to the new custom menu. I'm also hoping setting effect is mappable to a custom button (I'd use the video button which is finally mappable), and alternately use the 1,2,3 settings memory selections to record that change, as well as uncompressed RAW (it's still annoying that they don't offer lossless compression).

If it works the way I'm planning, I'd only go to the menus to format and initiate wireless transfer, both from the custom menu.

Look forward to hear from you on a7r III. Crossing my fingers on A7s III to have similar specs as 7r III.

New grip on A9 is much more friendly, especially with f1.4 primes and f2.8 GM lenses. The new battery is awesome. If you can get one extra, shooting all day is no longer an issue. I dont know what A9 II has to offer in near future, current A9 is more than what I can dream for ;)
 

Dylan777

EOS-1D X Mark III
Nov 17, 2011
5,514
9
Woody said:
Neutral said:
Woody said:
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially a9 are much more customizable cameras even than 1dxm2.

My company owns 3 copies of A7S, 1 copy of A7SII, 1 copy of A7R and 1 copy of A9 with Sony FE 24-70 f/4 and multiple copies of FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS.

I have used them all. I know what I am talking about.

The A9 is an improvement, but the ergonomics still s***s.

Same feeling when I hold 1dx ii plus 70200f2.8 II L at local Samys ;D
 

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bwud

EOS RP
Sep 3, 2014
305
10
Dylan777 said:
bwud said:
Neutral said:
If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time.

Agreed. I access the menu for exactly 4 reasons:
Toggle Setting Effect on or off depending on ambient light conditions
Format memory card
Toggle RAW quality
Toggle airplane mode and wirelessly transfer photos

When my Riii gets here, I plan to map them all to the new custom menu. I'm also hoping setting effect is mappable to a custom button (I'd use the video button which is finally mappable), and alternately use the 1,2,3 settings memory selections to record that change, as well as uncompressed RAW (it's still annoying that they don't offer lossless compression).

If it works the way I'm planning, I'd only go to the menus to format and initiate wireless transfer, both from the custom menu.

Look forward to hear from you on a7r III. Crossing my fingers on A7s III to have similar specs as 7r III.

New grip on A9 is much more friendly, especially with f1.4 primes and f2.8 GM lenses. The new battery is awesome. If you can get one extra, shooting all day is no longer an issue. I dont know what A9 II has to offer in near future, current A9 is more than what I can dream for ;)

I’ll let you know how it goes. Didn’t pay for expedited shipping but hope to have it early December. Maybe I’ll add a grip to the order.
 

Neutral

EOS RP
Oct 19, 2012
342
17
Dylan777 said:
I dont know what A9 II has to offer in near future, current A9 is more than what I can dream for ;)
It is very difficult to predict , bayer sensor technology almost reached theoretical/technological limit for image quality. Possibly we could expect advances in sensor data processing , maybe global shutter as well.
There is still a lot of things on the way.
I would be interested to see following with the next a9, a9r, a9s.
1. Increase in well capacity so that more photons could be accumilated - for any brand, not only for Sony
This is easier with BSI technology.
2. Implementation of old Sony patent for electronically switched pixel color filters - with that no need for pixel shift to get full sensor resolution, no moire, ability to shoot ful res. monochrome images at any selected light spectrum range. This also could slightly increase sensitivity for red and blue channels.
3. Higher analog DR range - possibly using dual pixel or combining dual shots . There is interesting piece of information regarding new HDR mode on recently announced new Sony medium format sensors, somehow nobody noticed and mentioned that so far. Though no information how this is implemented. The only thing that they compress it into 14 bit possibly using kind of HLG. Not using yet 16bit ADC. This what we will see soon on next deneration of medium format camaras. Hopefully we will see the same on Sony a9r.
4. Have 16 bit ADC if #3 is implemented. Posibly have option to switch between 14 and 16 bit modes.
5. Have losless RAW compression using latest compression technologies, e.g. based on wavelets transforms or methods used in h.265 for video.
6. Have HLG is standard option not only for video but also for still - seems that a7r3 already have that.
7. Have 10bit 4:2:2 internal video recording.
8. Have option for DNG output.
9. Internal timelapse.
10. Internal image focus stacking as on Phase One camera.
11. High ISO improvements, at least 0.5 stops , though seems that it could be difficult to acheive.
12. Night mode - low light sensitivity increase one or two stops using photons multiplication technologies as used in some science sensors, possibly never happen but it is nice to dream about that.
13. Super fast super high resolution GM prime - I would like to see 35mm F1.0 GM AF prime. This would be perfect for night street photography, maybe for astrography as well.
14. And last but not the least - further improvements in AF capabilities , especially fo "Lock on AF mode", which requires icrease in processing power and some pieces of AI technology implementation.