EOS M Autofocus Performance Won't Improve via Firmware [CR2]

[Iceman75]

I have to admit, that the AF keeps me away from the EOS M, too.
Although... what remains is the fact that - unless you use a pancake - the thing is pretty bulky. So if you really want a pocketable camera I'd rather go for a Sony RX100
Hope Canon will improve the AF AND produce a pancake zoom - then I'd seriously start thinking about an M

What I don't understand is the critzcism about the 6D - AF... what I read is that it really performs well - it just sounds pretty shitty on the datasheet due to the limited number of (Cross-Type) Sensors...

 

[Woody]

What I don't understand is the critzcism about the 6D - AF... what I read is that it really performs well - it just sounds pretty shitty on the datasheet due to the limited number of (Cross-Type) Sensors...

There are many armchair critics out there...

 

[Dylan777]

Canon is so strong in DSLR field, including lenses. I'm not sure why they came short on M model.Both Sony and Fuji seem to be on the right track with smaller cameras.

Look forward to see Canon FF sensor in compact body(similar to RX1) with fast AF(similar to Fuji). am I asking to much? ;D

 

[jal2099]

+1 to all of this. "Saved" is a strong word, but after months with the camera, Magic Lantern has kept my camera off of eBay...losing a chunk of it's value has something to do with that, too. Between Focus Peaking and being able to up the bitrate, ML is a real boon.

It's an odd little camera. After a decent amount of time with it, I tend to only dislike it when I'm not using it, but when I am, I have few qualms. I really appreciate just how small this camera can become.

what I dont get is
when you use touch to shoot the AF is just fine
when you use it in a studio with studio strobes even using the shutter button the AF speed is about on par with a rebel (this is EFM 18-55 vs 600D with EF-S 18-55)

however if you use the shutter button any other time its a dog to the point of being basically unusable

I plan on using mine for video and timelapse mostly the kit lens is sharp stopped down and has IS so is pretty good for this, the 22mm is a great little lens too

I've gotten impatient and installed the ML alpha on it now and its looking pretty good so far!

 

[RLPhoto]

I really doubt Canon won't take the advantage of a firmware update to try to market it as an AF improvement and then leave it as an unquantifiable statement about improved AF.

It is funny how many people knew this would be a stinker before it saw the inside of a showroom. 1st gen is not an excuse - I would have fired the people who let a subpar product see light of day. We are too kind to these people and show way too much loyalty.

I have been on the sidelines with my Rebel Xsi because I am a casual photographer and don't need this equipment to earn my living. I will continue to wait one more cycle to see if Canon can fix AF issues with the Rebel, M series or the 6D and not keep making silly mistakes (one point AF on 6D) - if the next product does not deliver then I guess Sony or Nikon will be getting my money.

EP-1?
X100?
X-pro1?
Iphone?
Ipad?
Windows Vista? (contrast win7pro)
Pretty much any 1st gen system or serious overhaul to a previous system.


All had serious flaws that is caused by 1st gen syndrome, compare 2nd gen products to these and its obvious of they're flaws. I never adopt 1st gen products.

 

[ashmadux]

Then this turkey of a camera is as dead as it is now.

Horrible, HORRIBLE AF performance. I couldn't believe how long it took to focus, its just unthinkable that canon would allow this.

Then again canon is all about protecting camera classes and margins nowadays. Could have been a great travel and street cam, but with that dreadful af its limited to shooting statues and mountains. what a waste. :'( :'( :'(

 

[c.d.embrey]

what I dont get is
when you use touch to shoot the AF is just fine
when you use it in a studio with studio strobes even using the shutter button the AF speed is about on par with a rebel (this is EFM 18-55 vs 600D with EF-S 18-55)

Putting a Pocket Wizard in the hot-shoe improves focus ??? that's beyond wiered. Does using a flash in the hot-shoe also improve auto-focus

Next time I'm over at Calumet I'll check this out. I always have several Pocket Wizands with me. I'd mainly use an EOS M for studio work, so this could be workable

I plan on using mine for video and timelapse mostly the kit lens is sharp stopped down and has IS so is pretty good for this, the 22mm is a great little lens too

I've gotten impatient and installed the ML alpha on it now and its looking pretty good so far!

Be sure to post a link to your video tests.

 

[dadgummit]

It was the terrible AF performance that kept me away not the lack of lenses. I can live without the viewfinder and built in flash because it makes the body smaller but slow af destroys any use I would have for this model which is taking shots of my family/ kids etc.

 

[silvaeu]

The major issue I have with the EOS-M is the lack of a built-in flash. It makes no sense to me to have a second smaller camera to carry for convenience if it requires an external flash. When carrying only a mirrorless with a small lens, it makes no sense to have to carry a flash.

For now, I've opted for the Panasonic GX1. It has the ideal form factor and features... I just wished Canon had built a similar camera with a APS-C sensor.

 

[Dylan777]

I really doubt Canon won't take the advantage of a firmware update to try to market it as an AF improvement and then leave it as an unquantifiable statement about improved AF.

It is funny how many people knew this would be a stinker before it saw the inside of a showroom. 1st gen is not an excuse - I would have fired the people who let a subpar product see light of day. We are too kind to these people and show way too much loyalty.

I have been on the sidelines with my Rebel Xsi because I am a casual photographer and don't need this equipment to earn my living. I will continue to wait one more cycle to see if Canon can fix AF issues with the Rebel, M series or the 6D and not keep making silly mistakes (one point AF on 6D) - if the next product does not deliver then I guess Sony or Nikon will be getting my money.

EP-1?
X100?
X-pro1?
Iphone?
Ipad?
Windows Vista? (contrast win7pro)
Pretty much any 1st gen system or serious overhaul to a previous system.


All had serious flaws that is caused by 1st gen syndrome, compare 2nd gen products to these and its obvious of they're flaws. I never adopt 1st gen products.

Would you consider Sony RX1 is 1st gen of FF in compact body? Took over 1k photos with RX1, I didn't see any issues yet? including AF speed

You said "I never adopt 1st gen products", I thought you had 5D C before 5D III? and what about your all time fav 135L?

 

[wickidwombat]

what I dont get is
when you use touch to shoot the AF is just fine
when you use it in a studio with studio strobes even using the shutter button the AF speed is about on par with a rebel (this is EFM 18-55 vs 600D with EF-S 18-55)

Putting a Pocket Wizard in the hot-shoe improves focus ??? that's beyond wiered. Does using a flash in the hot-shoe also improve auto-focus

Next time I'm over at Calumet I'll check this out. I always have several Pocket Wizands with me. I'd mainly use an EOS M for studio work, so this could be workable

I plan on using mine for video and timelapse mostly the kit lens is sharp stopped down and has IS so is pretty good for this, the 22mm is a great little lens too

I've gotten impatient and installed the ML alpha on it now and its looking pretty good so far!

Be sure to post a link to your video tests.

I dont use pocket wizards I just tested it with the elinchrom skyport trigger and the phottix odin (the odin is funny since the odin controller is nearly the same size as the camera. (neither of these triggers have any AF assist.)

it was very odd becasue it completely failed using touch to focus in studio (since the screen was black! so you have to guess! so its unusable for this

So i went back to trying the shutter button and was amazed at how much faster it seemed
i was really only aiming to compare image quality of the 600D and kit lens vs the EOS-M and its kit lens
so I was quite suprised when there was really not much of a difference in the AF performance between the 2 in a controlled setting

the 18-55 EF-M lens leaves the 18-55 EF-S lens for dead as far as image quality goes
as I said its sharp stopped down and has great IS for video i think its a decent little combo that has very little weight. I do need to have a more deicated play with ML but so far have encountered no problems using the alpha version.

 

[RLPhoto]

I really doubt Canon won't take the advantage of a firmware update to try to market it as an AF improvement and then leave it as an unquantifiable statement about improved AF.

It is funny how many people knew this would be a stinker before it saw the inside of a showroom. 1st gen is not an excuse - I would have fired the people who let a subpar product see light of day. We are too kind to these people and show way too much loyalty.

I have been on the sidelines with my Rebel Xsi because I am a casual photographer and don't need this equipment to earn my living. I will continue to wait one more cycle to see if Canon can fix AF issues with the Rebel, M series or the 6D and not keep making silly mistakes (one point AF on 6D) - if the next product does not deliver then I guess Sony or Nikon will be getting my money.

EP-1?
X100?
X-pro1?
Iphone?
Ipad?
Windows Vista? (contrast win7pro)
Pretty much any 1st gen system or serious overhaul to a previous system.


All had serious flaws that is caused by 1st gen syndrome, compare 2nd gen products to these and its obvious of they're flaws. I never adopt 1st gen products.

Would you consider Sony RX1 is 1st gen of FF in compact body? Took over 1k photos with RX1, I didn't see any issues yet? including AF speed

You said "I never adopt 1st gen products", I thought you had 5D C before 5D III? and what about your all time fav 135L?

Well yes. DPreview even agrees the RX1 has its flaws and so have other indie reviews. Like the the first IPhone, its ludicrously over priced.

I never adopted the 5Dc at release, I bought it well into the mk2 era. The 135L had its optical base in the FD 135mm, and improved on that design. Great product.

Also I own a d30 but why does that matter?

 

[Dylan777]

I really doubt Canon won't take the advantage of a firmware update to try to market it as an AF improvement and then leave it as an unquantifiable statement about improved AF.

It is funny how many people knew this would be a stinker before it saw the inside of a showroom. 1st gen is not an excuse - I would have fired the people who let a subpar product see light of day. We are too kind to these people and show way too much loyalty.

I have been on the sidelines with my Rebel Xsi because I am a casual photographer and don't need this equipment to earn my living. I will continue to wait one more cycle to see if Canon can fix AF issues with the Rebel, M series or the 6D and not keep making silly mistakes (one point AF on 6D) - if the next product does not deliver then I guess Sony or Nikon will be getting my money.

EP-1?
X100?
X-pro1?
Iphone?
Ipad?
Windows Vista? (contrast win7pro)
Pretty much any 1st gen system or serious overhaul to a previous system.


All had serious flaws that is caused by 1st gen syndrome, compare 2nd gen products to these and its obvious of they're flaws. I never adopt 1st gen products.

Would you consider Sony RX1 is 1st gen of FF in compact body? Took over 1k photos with RX1, I didn't see any issues yet? including AF speed

You said "I never adopt 1st gen products", I thought you had 5D C before 5D III? and what about your all time fav 135L?

Well yes. DPreview even agrees the RX1 has its flaws and so have other indie reviews. Like the the first IPhone, its ludicrously over priced.

I never adopted the 5Dc at release, I bought it well into the mk2 era. The 135L had its optical base in the FD 135mm, and improved on that design. Great product.

Also I own a d30 but why does that matter?

What flaws on RX1? Being the ONLY kid on the block, I don't blame Sony for pricing this camera at $2800. This is the only FF camera desgined in compact body for less than $3000, not to mention, a Carl Zeiss f2 lens is included.

To me...5D C is considered as 1st gen FF digital, regardless when you buy it.

Why that matter? You bought and used 1st gen product(s), but you claimed that you never adopt 1st gen products. Don't you think that was little B.S?

Do you know the diff btw FD135 Vs 135L?

 

[RLPhoto]

I really doubt Canon won't take the advantage of a firmware update to try to market it as an AF improvement and then leave it as an unquantifiable statement about improved AF.

It is funny how many people knew this would be a stinker before it saw the inside of a showroom. 1st gen is not an excuse - I would have fired the people who let a subpar product see light of day. We are too kind to these people and show way too much loyalty.

I have been on the sidelines with my Rebel Xsi because I am a casual photographer and don't need this equipment to earn my living. I will continue to wait one more cycle to see if Canon can fix AF issues with the Rebel, M series or the 6D and not keep making silly mistakes (one point AF on 6D) - if the next product does not deliver then I guess Sony or Nikon will be getting my money.

EP-1?
X100?
X-pro1?
Iphone?
Ipad?
Windows Vista? (contrast win7pro)
Pretty much any 1st gen system or serious overhaul to a previous system.


All had serious flaws that is caused by 1st gen syndrome, compare 2nd gen products to these and its obvious of they're flaws. I never adopt 1st gen products.

Would you consider Sony RX1 is 1st gen of FF in compact body? Took over 1k photos with RX1, I didn't see any issues yet? including AF speed

You said "I never adopt 1st gen products", I thought you had 5D C before 5D III? and what about your all time fav 135L?

Well yes. DPreview even agrees the RX1 has its flaws and so have other indie reviews. Like the the first IPhone, its ludicrously over priced.

I never adopted the 5Dc at release, I bought it well into the mk2 era. The 135L had its optical base in the FD 135mm, and improved on that design. Great product.

Also I own a d30 but why does that matter?

What flaws on RX1? Being the ONLY kid on the block, I don't blame Sony for pricing this camera at $2800. This is the only FF camera desgined in compact body for less than $3000, not to mention, a Carl Zeiss f2 lens is included.

To me...5D C is considered as 1st gen FF digital, regardless when you buy it.

Do you know the diff btw FD135 Vs 135L?

Why that matter? You bought and used 1st gen product(s), but you claimed that you never adopt 1st gen products. Don't you think that was little B.S?

Just like iPhone 1, so is the Sony RX1. Alone on the block but flawed anyway. Read DPreviews cons list for me.

The 5Dc was first gen, like the EOS-M. Neither of which I have/had any desire to purchase when released. I purchased the 5Dc when it was already obsolete from MK2. No BS, perhaps you mis-understand the context of this thread & comment wrong.

Sure the 135L has many improvements over its FD version, just like the 50mm 1.4 does.

 

[Dylan777]

I really doubt Canon won't take the advantage of a firmware update to try to market it as an AF improvement and then leave it as an unquantifiable statement about improved AF.

It is funny how many people knew this would be a stinker before it saw the inside of a showroom. 1st gen is not an excuse - I would have fired the people who let a subpar product see light of day. We are too kind to these people and show way too much loyalty.

I have been on the sidelines with my Rebel Xsi because I am a casual photographer and don't need this equipment to earn my living. I will continue to wait one more cycle to see if Canon can fix AF issues with the Rebel, M series or the 6D and not keep making silly mistakes (one point AF on 6D) - if the next product does not deliver then I guess Sony or Nikon will be getting my money.

EP-1?
X100?
X-pro1?
Iphone?
Ipad?
Windows Vista? (contrast win7pro)
Pretty much any 1st gen system or serious overhaul to a previous system.


All had serious flaws that is caused by 1st gen syndrome, compare 2nd gen products to these and its obvious of they're flaws. I never adopt 1st gen products.

Would you consider Sony RX1 is 1st gen of FF in compact body? Took over 1k photos with RX1, I didn't see any issues yet? including AF speed

You said "I never adopt 1st gen products", I thought you had 5D C before 5D III? and what about your all time fav 135L?

Well yes. DPreview even agrees the RX1 has its flaws and so have other indie reviews. Like the the first IPhone, its ludicrously over priced.

I never adopted the 5Dc at release, I bought it well into the mk2 era. The 135L had its optical base in the FD 135mm, and improved on that design. Great product.

Also I own a d30 but why does that matter?

What flaws on RX1? Being the ONLY kid on the block, I don't blame Sony for pricing this camera at $2800. This is the only FF camera desgined in compact body for less than $3000, not to mention, a Carl Zeiss f2 lens is included.

To me...5D C is considered as 1st gen FF digital, regardless when you buy it.

Do you know the diff btw FD135 Vs 135L?

Why that matter? You bought and used 1st gen product(s), but you claimed that you never adopt 1st gen products. Don't you think that was little B.S?

Just like iPhone 1, so is the Sony RX1. Alone on the block but flawed anyway. Read DPreviews cons list for me.

The 5Dc was first gen, like the EOS-M. Neither of which I have/had any desire to purchase when released. I purchased the 5Dc when it was already obsolete from MK2. No BS, perhaps you mis-understand the context of this thread & comment wrong.
Sure the 135L has many improvements over its FD version, just like the 50mm 1.4 does.

RLPhoto, you are very twisty!!!

So now...5D III is out, would that make 5DC no longer 1st gen camera?

Any there any perfect camera(s) out there? with no cons?

AND NOW, you telling me that I mis-understood this thread & gave wrong comment.

 

[RLPhoto]

I really doubt Canon won't take the advantage of a firmware update to try to market it as an AF improvement and then leave it as an unquantifiable statement about improved AF.

It is funny how many people knew this would be a stinker before it saw the inside of a showroom. 1st gen is not an excuse - I would have fired the people who let a subpar product see light of day. We are too kind to these people and show way too much loyalty.

I have been on the sidelines with my Rebel Xsi because I am a casual photographer and don't need this equipment to earn my living. I will continue to wait one more cycle to see if Canon can fix AF issues with the Rebel, M series or the 6D and not keep making silly mistakes (one point AF on 6D) - if the next product does not deliver then I guess Sony or Nikon will be getting my money.

EP-1?
X100?
X-pro1?
Iphone?
Ipad?
Windows Vista? (contrast win7pro)
Pretty much any 1st gen system or serious overhaul to a previous system.


All had serious flaws that is caused by 1st gen syndrome, compare 2nd gen products to these and its obvious of they're flaws. I never adopt 1st gen products.

Would you consider Sony RX1 is 1st gen of FF in compact body? Took over 1k photos with RX1, I didn't see any issues yet? including AF speed

You said "I never adopt 1st gen products", I thought you had 5D C before 5D III? and what about your all time fav 135L?

Well yes. DPreview even agrees the RX1 has its flaws and so have other indie reviews. Like the the first IPhone, its ludicrously over priced.

I never adopted the 5Dc at release, I bought it well into the mk2 era. The 135L had its optical base in the FD 135mm, and improved on that design. Great product.

Also I own a d30 but why does that matter?

What flaws on RX1? Being the ONLY kid on the block, I don't blame Sony for pricing this camera at $2800. This is the only FF camera desgined in compact body for less than $3000, not to mention, a Carl Zeiss f2 lens is included.

To me...5D C is considered as 1st gen FF digital, regardless when you buy it.

Do you know the diff btw FD135 Vs 135L?

Why that matter? You bought and used 1st gen product(s), but you claimed that you never adopt 1st gen products. Don't you think that was little B.S?

Just like iPhone 1, so is the Sony RX1. Alone on the block but flawed anyway. Read DPreviews cons list for me.

The 5Dc was first gen, like the EOS-M. Neither of which I have/had any desire to purchase when released. I purchased the 5Dc when it was already obsolete from MK2. No BS, perhaps you mis-understand the context of this thread & comment wrong.
Sure the 135L has many improvements over its FD version, just like the 50mm 1.4 does.

RLPhoto, you are very twisty!!!

So now...5D III is out, would that make 5DC no longer 1st gen camera?

Any there any perfect camera(s) out there? with no cons?

AND NOW, you telling me that I mis-understood this thread & gave wrong comment.

How many times have I typed that yes, the 5Dc is a first gen camera and has many many flaws but I never bought it at release for the full asked price when it was the only option.

The thread states that the EOS M AF cannot be fixed with firmware. No surprise, because its a first gen product it will have all these flaws that cannot be fixed by firmware. Just like said 5Dc. But I never adopted products until Gen 2 was released. Simpy because gen2 will be better and gen1 will be a lot cheaper. Like iPhone 1 and iPhone 3G.

I can guarantee when RX-2 is released, I'll be able to buy a used RX-1 for half of what you paid or just get the fixed RX-2.

 

[Rocky]

How many times have I typed that yes, the 5Dc is a first gen camera and has many many flaws but I never bought it at release for the full asked price when it was the only option.

The thread states that the EOS M AF cannot be fixed with firmware. No surprise, because its a first gen product it will have all these flaws that cannot be fixed by firmware. Just like said 5Dc. But I never adopted products until Gen 2 was released. Simpy because gen2 will be better and gen1 will be a lot cheaper. Like iPhone 1 and iPhone 3G.

I can guarantee when RX-2 is released, I'll be able to buy a used RX-1 for half of what you paid or just get the fixed RX-2.

So your complain is the PRICE of the first generations, not the PERFORMANCE. If it is the performance, you will never buy the first generation regardless of the price.

 

[RLPhoto]

How many times have I typed that yes, the 5Dc is a first gen camera and has many many flaws but I never bought it at release for the full asked price when it was the only option.

The thread states that the EOS M AF cannot be fixed with firmware. No surprise, because its a first gen product it will have all these flaws that cannot be fixed by firmware. Just like said 5Dc. But I never adopted products until Gen 2 was released. Simpy because gen2 will be better and gen1 will be a lot cheaper. Like iPhone 1 and iPhone 3G.

I can guarantee when RX-2 is released, I'll be able to buy a used RX-1 for half of what you paid or just get the fixed RX-2.

So your complain is the PRICE of the first generations, not the PERFORMANCE. If it is the performance, you will never buy the first generation regardless of the price.

Lets put it this way, I didn't adopt the 5D2 either. It still wasn't the camera I needed, the MK3 was the camera where I adopted it ASAP to replace my temp 5Dc system.

It's a price/performance ratio that matters and that ratio is always higher with a gen2 system. Thus I never adopt first gen systems but wait for Gen2's release.

 

[Rocky]

How many times have I typed that yes, the 5Dc is a first gen camera and has many many flaws but I never bought it at release for the full asked price when it was the only option.

The thread states that the EOS M AF cannot be fixed with firmware. No surprise, because its a first gen product it will have all these flaws that cannot be fixed by firmware. Just like said 5Dc. But I never adopted products until Gen 2 was released. Simpy because gen2 will be better and gen1 will be a lot cheaper. Like iPhone 1 and iPhone 3G.

I can guarantee when RX-2 is released, I'll be able to buy a used RX-1 for half of what you paid or just get the fixed RX-2.

So your complain is the PRICE of the first generations, not the PERFORMANCE. If it is the performance, you will never buy the first generation regardless of the price.

Lets put it this way, I didn't adopt the 5D2 either. It still wasn't the camera I needed, the MK3 was the camera where I adopted it ASAP to replace my temp 5Dc system.

It's a price/performance ratio that matters and that ratio is always higher with a gen2 system. Thus I never adopt first gen systems but wait for Gen2's release.

You have just contradict yourself BIG TIME. You adopted the 5D C (first generation), but not the 5D 2 (second generation).

 

[RLPhoto]

How many times have I typed that yes, the 5Dc is a first gen camera and has many many flaws but I never bought it at release for the full asked price when it was the only option.

The thread states that the EOS M AF cannot be fixed with firmware. No surprise, because its a first gen product it will have all these flaws that cannot be fixed by firmware. Just like said 5Dc. But I never adopted products until Gen 2 was released. Simpy because gen2 will be better and gen1 will be a lot cheaper. Like iPhone 1 and iPhone 3G.

I can guarantee when RX-2 is released, I'll be able to buy a used RX-1 for half of what you paid or just get the fixed RX-2.

So your complain is the PRICE of the first generations, not the PERFORMANCE. If it is the performance, you will never buy the first generation regardless of the price.

Lets put it this way, I didn't adopt the 5D2 either. It still wasn't the camera I needed, the MK3 was the camera where I adopted it ASAP to replace my temp 5Dc system.

It's a price/performance ratio that matters and that ratio is always higher with a gen2 system. Thus I never adopt first gen systems but wait for Gen2's release.

You have just contradict yourself BIG TIME. You adopted the 5D C (first generation), but not the 5D 2 (second generation).

5Dc Released - Didn't adopt at release, Too expensive. ONLY OPTION AT THE TIME. For example, EOS-M is the ONLY Option at the moment for Canon mirrorless, just as the 5Dc was for affordable FF.

5D2 Released - Didn't adopt at release, Too expensive, AF disappointed. Other option avaliable, a Used 5Dc for cheap.

Purchased used 5Dc until Mk3 Release.

5D3 - Released, Had all the features I needed. Adopted ASAP and replaced my temp 5Dc.

It a un-wise move to adopt a First gen product when its the only option available. I never adopt first gen products until the next gen is released, If its better, I buy Gen2. If its not better, Gen1 will always be cheaper.

Perhaps you need to re-read my previous posts.