EOS M5: A damnend good camera!

bholliman

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

jolyonralph said:
The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.

What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

Other things I dislike about the M5:

Only rudimentary battery power level indicator. No % indicator
Slow startup speed - it's actually slightly slower to start up than the M3, and way slower than the A6000
No 4K
Does not support USB tethered shooting.

And it's a real shame that no Canon camera has the feature that the Sony cameras do that you can charge the battery inside the camera when the USB cable is connected to a power source or a computer. Very handy for charging the camera in the car etc.

So. Canon really must do better if they want to do a professional MILC. I like the M5 and I will probably use mine MORE than the A6000, but it could have been so much better.

All cameras have their advantages and disadvantages. You have to make a personal decision between what is available in the market and your personal preferences and budget. The comments about the M5 being 2-3-4 years behind the competition seem to be based on it not having 4k video (which doesn't matter to many of us), its other features are certainly in line with the competition. And the M5 has a big plus the competition doesn't: Canon's excellent service and support and access to the best family of lenses in the industry (EF/EF-S/EF-M).

jolyonralph said:
What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

I'm a guy with larger than average hands, my 5DsR is certainly easier and more ergonomic for me to operate than the M5, but I can live with that since I bought the M5 because I wanted a small camera. Canon packed lots of control options into a small package with the M5. Personally, I'm glad they did.
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jolyonralph

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

bholliman said:
The comments about the M5 being 2-3-4 years behind the competition seem to be based on it not having 4k video (which doesn't matter to many of us), its other features are certainly in line with the competition. And the M5 has a big plus the competition doesn't: Canon's excellent service and support and access to the best family of lenses in the industry (EF/EF-S/EF-M).

I'm a guy with larger than average hands, my 5DsR is certainly easier and more ergonomic for me to operate than the M5, but I can live with that since I bought the M5 since it was a small camera. Canon packed lots of control options into a small package with the M5. Personally, I'm glad they did.

Actually, my comment about being 2 years behind Sony had nothing to do with 4K. I was comparing the M5 with the Sony A6000, which doesn't have 4K either. But what the Sony does have is comparable focus speed and similar image quality in low light (ie Canon have finally caught up). So, the M5 is comparable sensor and focus-wise with the A6000 which was launched in 2014. My biggest ergonomic problem with the M5 is the position of the 'menu' button in the bottom right corner where it's very easily triggered by my palm. Similarly the video record button is often hit by accident. The A6000 is slightly wider so doesn't have such a cramped button issue.

Of course, if you have a lot of EF lenses (as I do!) then the M5 is a better choice to use with those lenses (which, after all is why I own the M5 now.) There is a poor selection of native EF-M lenses now (compared with a wide range for E mount) although the EF-M lenses I own I am very happy with. The M5 also has a much nicer screen and better viewfinder than the A6000.
 

bholliman

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

jolyonralph said:
Actually, my comment about being 2 years behind Sony had nothing to do with 4K. I was comparing the M5 with the Sony A6000, which doesn't have 4K either. But what the Sony does have is comparable focus speed and similar image quality in low light (ie Canon have finally caught up). So, the M5 is comparable sensor and focus-wise with the A6000 which was launched in 2014. My biggest ergonomic problem with the M5 is the position of the 'menu' button in the bottom right corner where it's very easily triggered by my palm. Similarly the video record button is often hit by accident. The A6000 is slightly wider so doesn't have such a cramped button issue.

Of course, if you have a lot of EF lenses (as I do!) then the M5 is a better choice to use with those lenses (which, after all is why I own the M5 now.) There is a poor selection of native EF-M lenses now (compared with a wide range for E mount) although the EF-M lenses I own I am very happy with. The M5 also has a much nicer screen and better viewfinder than the A6000.

Looking at the specs, the M5 is similar to the current Sony A6500 for stills, at a 30% lower price. I'm sure both have pluses and minuses.

I agree that the menu button and video record buttons could be in a better locations. I've reconfigured the M-fn button to record video, so that one is easily dealt with, but the menu button can't be changed. A minor issue in my opinion, but something that could be improved in future versions.
 

jolyonralph

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

The menu button is a real shame because it was one of my biggest gripes about the M3. They fixed my biggest complaint about the M3 (no real on/off switch).

As for comparing A6500 with M5 - I've not used the A6500 so I can't say. But I have used the M3, the M5 and the A6000 extensively, and in my experience the A6000 and the M5 are comparable in image quality and focus with the M3 trailing in both.

But Canon really do need to do something about startup time. This is inexcusable seeing as they've moved to the Digic 7 chip on the m5 there is absolutely no reason why it should be slower than the M3. There's no point having any camera if you've missed the shot in the time it's taken to turn on.
 

bholliman

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

jolyonralph said:
As for comparing A6500 with M5 - I've not used the A6500 so I can't say. But I have used the M3, the M5 and the A6000 extensively, and in my experience the A6000 and the M5 are comparable in image quality and focus with the M3 trailing in both.

But Canon really do need to do something about startup time. This is inexcusable seeing as they've moved to the Digic 7 chip on the m5 there is absolutely no reason why it should be slower than the M3. There's no point having any camera if you've missed the shot in the time it's taken to turn on.

My only experience with the Sony A series is playing with demo units at Best Buy, so I'll defer to your hands on experience. The A6000 doesn't have a touch screen, right? I would imagine the M5's touch and drag focusing using the LCD is a big plus for the M5.

Start up time for the M5 is slow. I can't say it's been a real issue for me however, but could be a problem if you wanted to grab a quick shot. I would think it could be corrected with a firmware update.
 

Crosswind

The bigger your Canon, the smaller your Cannon :)
Feb 2, 2015
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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Ok, the only thing I've found to be a bit slow and unneccessary is, when you switch between the shooting modes via the P, Av, Tv, M dial. I have turned off tips&tricks in the menu, but everytime I switch, it shows me the mode I've just selected on the display for about 1sec. (or even longer, didn't measure) and I cannot do anything in the meantime! I don't need that. Annoying stuff (but I can deal with it, as I'm more into landscapes).

Now but if I'm in a hurry, that might be an issue (street photography, weddings, festivals, frequently changing situations, etc...). It might take a splitsecond too long to finally be able to shoot, after I've switched from Av to Tv mode for example. Should be fixed in a firmware upgrade for the Canon EOS M5.

P.S.: One thing I want to add about the in-camera RAW processing; the M5 allows you to select and then process multiple pictures at once (you couldn't do that with the 6D).
 

JoFT

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

jolyonralph said:
The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.

What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

Other things I dislike about the M5:

Only rudimentary battery power level indicator. No % indicator
Slow startup speed - it's actually slightly slower to start up than the M3, and way slower than the A6000
No 4K
Does not support USB tethered shooting.

And it's a real shame that no Canon camera has the feature that the Sony cameras do that you can charge the battery inside the camera when the USB cable is connected to a power source or a computer. Very handy for charging the camera in the car etc.

So. Canon really must do better if they want to do a professional MILC. I like the M5 and I will probably use mine MORE than the A6000, but it could have been so much better.


I do not see the M5 behind the Sony's. Both have advantages and disadvantages. They are different.


You can shoot the M5 tethered-wireless. But only on iOS or other mobile devices.


Loading via USB is a nice feature which is not standard at Panasonic in most of their models, too....


And one bid advantage: lens selection. Even if there are not that many native lenses available: there are a lot of lenses available and really good ones. Still much better than with Sony. And they are compatible with my 5D4....




But I agree, there is space for improvement, and this is a lot. I hope Canon is going to do so.
 

jolyonralph

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

One thing I've now found twice on the M5 when I've taken it out shooting is that I've somehow managed to knock auto ISO off and onto some ridiculous iso setting (eg the other day I took a bunch of photos outdoors at 16000 ISO without noticing.)

Has this happened to anyone else? With such a cramped space for controls I wish there was a lock function.

Also, the EVF is not as nice to use as the external one on the M3. For one thing it doesn't have enough rubber cup to it so that you get lots of light leakage in from the sides, especially if you're also trying to do thumb focus pointing at the same time. It doesn't appear that it is easy to replace it with a larger third-party one. This spoils it somewhat. Was shooting the M3 and the M5 side by side today. The M3 viewfinder is much nicer to use.

It does seem the M5 is in many ways two steps forward and one step back from the M3. Of course, the focusing is much better on the M5.
 

dak723

EOS R
Oct 26, 2013
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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

jolyonralph said:
One thing I've now found twice on the M5 when I've taken it out shooting is that I've somehow managed to knock auto ISO off and onto some ridiculous iso setting (eg the other day I took a bunch of photos outdoors at 16000 ISO without noticing.)

Has this happened to anyone else? With such a cramped space for controls I wish there was a lock function.

I have accidentally pressed the custom buttons on the wheel while shooting, which I assume is what happened to you. I use 3 or 4 of the custom buttons and have set the others to be off (have no setting).
 

Woody

EOS R
Jul 20, 2010
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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

bholliman said:
The A6000 doesn't have a touch screen, right?

I do not know what others think, but a MILC without a touchscreen is a MASSIVE failure IMHO. It's also one of the reasons that I totally ignore older Sony MILCs.

Regarding size, I think the M5 is perfectly designed for those with small hands. That's why those with big hands will find themselves constantly bumping into buttons on the M5.

Large MILCs make little sense to me, and that's where all the new MILCs are going. I'll rather choose DSLRs and their incomparable OVF.

If one prefers a lightweight camera with volume, I'll say go with the just-released 77D or upcoming SL2. Believe it or not, the SL1 is lighter than many MILCs in the market.
 

bholliman

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

dak723 said:
jolyonralph said:
One thing I've now found twice on the M5 when I've taken it out shooting is that I've somehow managed to knock auto ISO off and onto some ridiculous iso setting (eg the other day I took a bunch of photos outdoors at 16000 ISO without noticing.)
Has this happened to anyone else? With such a cramped space for controls I wish there was a lock function.
I have accidentally pressed the custom buttons on the wheel while shooting, which I assume is what happened to you. I use 3 or 4 of the custom buttons and have set the others to be off (have no setting).

I had problems accidentally hitting ISO (top of the back wheel) and the movie record buttons, so I reconfigured both to avoid this.

Woody said:
Regarding size, I think the M5 is perfectly designed for those with small hands. That's why those with big hands will find themselves constantly bumping into buttons on the M5.

Agreed. I love my M5, but the controls are a bit cramped for easy operation with my larger than average hands. I'm not complaining, I'm very happy with the level of controls on the camera, its just minor issue I can deal with to enjoy the benefits of a small, light camera.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Woody said:
bholliman said:
The A6000 doesn't have a touch screen, right?

I do not know what others think, but a MILC without a touchscreen is a MASSIVE failure IMHO. It's also one of the reasons that I totally ignore older Sony MILCs.

I like touchscreens, but I haven't ever felt on the A6000 that it was a massive failing. To be honest I miss it more on the A7RII probably because I use that in a different way to the A6000. But in neither case would I say it was a massive failure. For me, the ergonomics on the M5 is more of a massive failure than this.

Still. I think there is more to like than not to like about the M5, and I'm certainly keeping mine.
 

JoFT

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Nov 9, 2014
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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

jolyonralph said:
Woody said:
bholliman said:
The A6000 doesn't have a touch screen, right?

I do not know what others think, but a MILC without a touchscreen is a MASSIVE failure IMHO. It's also one of the reasons that I totally ignore older Sony MILCs.

I like touchscreens, but I haven't ever felt on the A6000 that it was a massive failing. To be honest I miss it more on the A7RII probably because I use that in a different way to the A6000. But in neither case would I say it was a massive failure. For me, the ergonomics on the M5 is more of a massive failure than this.

Still. I think there is more to like than not to like about the M5, and I'm certainly keeping mine.


What's on the ergonomics is that massive failure? I have some minor things to argue (f.i. I would like to double tap on the area where I want to zoom in in manual focusing)


And one remark on native APS-C native E-mount lenses: where are those? They are not that much. Correct is, that 3rd party is missing...
 

Greatland

EOS 90D
Jan 19, 2012
139
1
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Perhaps someone can help me here. I am looking at mirrorless for the first time ever. I shoot a 1DX MK II and recently purchased a 5DSr. However I am interested in mirrorless. I have friends, Canon shooters who have purchased the Olympus and of course some who have purchased the Sony. Since I am very much interested in using my extensive collection of Canon lenses would it be presumptious to assume that the M5 will work better with all of my lenses than would be the case with the Olympus or the Sony...Thanks in advance for your help.
 
Jan 16, 2014
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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

bholliman said:
dak723 said:
jolyonralph said:
One thing I've now found twice on the M5 when I've taken it out shooting is that I've somehow managed to knock auto ISO off and onto some ridiculous iso setting (eg the other day I took a bunch of photos outdoors at 16000 ISO without noticing.)
Has this happened to anyone else? With such a cramped space for controls I wish there was a lock function.
I have accidentally pressed the custom buttons on the wheel while shooting, which I assume is what happened to you. I use 3 or 4 of the custom buttons and have set the others to be off (have no setting).

I had problems accidentally hitting ISO (top of the back wheel) and the movie record buttons, so I reconfigured both to avoid this.

Woody said:
Regarding size, I think the M5 is perfectly designed for those with small hands. That's why those with big hands will find themselves constantly bumping into buttons on the M5.

Agreed. I love my M5, but the controls are a bit cramped for easy operation with my larger than average hands. I'm not complaining, I'm very happy with the level of controls on the camera, its just minor issue I can deal with to enjoy the benefits of a small, light camera.

Every time I use the M5, I accidentally hit the record button- time to reassign. The other day I found myself in some settings hell and just shut off the camera. It does take time to get the "muscle memory" going on the little thing after using the big bodies all day. It's hard to beat the touch screen focusing when doing those really low angle shots- clothes are staying cleaner too. :)

Daffodil Hill 2017 0328 © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr
 

dak723

EOS R
Oct 26, 2013
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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Greatland said:
Perhaps someone can help me here. I am looking at mirrorless for the first time ever. I shoot a 1DX MK II and recently purchased a 5DSr. However I am interested in mirrorless. I have friends, Canon shooters who have purchased the Olympus and of course some who have purchased the Sony. Since I am very much interested in using my extensive collection of Canon lenses would it be presumptious to assume that the M5 will work better with all of my lenses than would be the case with the Olympus or the Sony...Thanks in advance for your help.

What is it about mirrorless - or what mirrorless features are you interested in? That may help you decide - and us to give advice. The major differences between those cameras you mention are sensor size. Olympus is Micro 4/3. Do you want to go that small compared to the FF sensor cameras that you have? Is there an adapter that will allow you to use Canon lenses on Olympus M4/3? Sony, of course, has FF mirrorless. And adapters that seem to do a reasonably good job. The M5 is APS-C, as I'm sure you know, and since it is Canon - and so is the adapter - you probably will get the most reliable results when it comes to AF and exposure with your current lenses. If you are looking for small - then the M5 would be my first choice.

If I had the two cameras that you do, I can't imagine wanting or needing anything else! So let us know what you are wanting in mirrorless.
 

Greatland

EOS 90D
Jan 19, 2012
139
1
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

I truly appreciate your comments. I really don't think that I can improve on the capabilities of the 1DX but as we all know it is a damned heavy camera, and when I hook it up to my 200-400 or 600 it is real damned heavy. I am intrigued with the IS that is built into the body of the M5 and since I am interested in using it for video, mostly, it seemed like a good fit. I do take video with my 1DX but once again it is a bulky and heavy camera and sometimes it just isn't practical as I am usually out in the boonies shooting wildlife, or in some other confined place like a small plane, or small watercraft. So I guess that I am looking for something to shoot video with that is light, easy to handle, with familiar characteristics, unlike the Olympus or Sony, and that I can use my other Canon lenses with. Does this make sense??
 

digigal

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Greatland--
I don't know about how well the Metabones adapter works with the Oly model and lens you want to use and what apertures but there seems to be a lot of limitations as to what Canon lenses and models of Oly cameras it will work with and what types of focusing it will allow. It's not "plug and play" like the Canon adapter is with the Canon lenses and M5. However, the M5 is somewhat "focus compromised" compared to some of the other top of the line mirrorless, but for some applications, it's great. I'll be taking one with me in a couple of weeks to Namibia as my second camera which I'll us for landscapes, wide angle, walk around stuff, and my 7DM2 and 100-400 will be for wildlife, birds. I like the M5 because the menus are familiar and you can pick it up and generally figure it out. I have an Oly (OMD EM5) that I bought and sent for IR conversion and I can tell you that their menus were devised by someone who has never used a camera and has no idea what the functions do and seem to be stored in a random way down menu trails--good luck ;) The manual is no help and it takes reading blogs and reviews to find out how to work the damn thing! It's a great little camera otherwise, but I'd rather stab myself in the eye than try to do anything fast using that clunky menu. Takes great IR pictures though and has lots of neat little lenses. I don't shoot video with any of my cameras so I can't comment there.
Good luck,
Catherine
 

Ed V

EOS M6 Mark II
Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Greatland said:
I truly appreciate your comments. I really don't think that I can improve on the capabilities of the 1DX but as we all know it is a damned heavy camera, and when I hook it up to my 200-400 or 600 it is real damned heavy. I am intrigued with the IS that is built into the body of the M5 and since I am interested in using it for video, mostly, it seemed like a good fit. I do take video with my 1DX but once again it is a bulky and heavy camera and sometimes it just isn't practical as I am usually out in the boonies shooting wildlife, or in some other confined place like a small plane, or small watercraft. So I guess that I am looking for something to shoot video with that is light, easy to handle, with familiar characteristics, unlike the Olympus or Sony, and that I can use my other Canon lenses with. Does this make sense??

I fully understand your logic. I went through the same decision process looking at the Fuji, Olympus and Sony mirrorless cameras before deciding on the M5. I bought two... one for me to supplement my 5D3 and one for my wife to upgrade her 50D. AT the same time I also purchased the lens adapter so I could use my L-glass with the M5. Truth be told, I have yet to use the adapter and L-glass on the M5.

My reason for buying the M5 was for those days when I wanted to keep it really small and light and when my back problems flare up. Now I almost exclusively use 35 and 50mm lenses these days. I find even the 35L and 50L to feel too bulky on my M5 when I want small and light. I can only imagine what a 200-400 or 600 would be like.

Pretty much all I use on the M5 right now is the EOS-M 22mm (35mm full frame equivalent) while I wait and hope and pray that Canon sees it's way to a EOS-M 32mm (50mm ff equivalent).

All that said, I like the M5. I find I do about a 60/40 split between the 5D3 and the M5. My shooting is almost exclusively on the streets and I am very happy with the results. And as was said above, moving back and forth between the two Canon cameras is pretty seamless.

Ed
 

bholliman

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!

Ed V said:
Pretty much all I use on the M5 right now is the EOS-M 22mm (35mm full frame equivalent) while I wait and hope and pray that Canon sees it's way to a EOS-M 32mm (50mm ff equivalent).

+1. The EF 35mm f/2 IS with adapter works very nicely as a 55mm equivalent, with the adapter, its a little front heavy compared with the native lenses, but I've used mine quite a bit. I also use my EF 50 STM a fair amount on the adapter. I have two EF-M zooms, but so far I've been using my M5 primarily with primes, probably 60% with my 22/2, and 40% with the EF 35 and 50 STM.
 
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