Does anyone know if the EF-M lenses have a big enough image circle to work on a FF Sensor in a M body? If not, the emergence of a FF M is very very unlikely!
How does the current EF-M image circle not being "big enough" have anything to do with the emergence of a FF M? if and when Canon does decide to make a full frame EOS-M I'm pretty sure they would rather produce new lenses for their customers to buy than to let customers use the old lenses and lose out on making profit.adhocphotographer said:Does anyone know if the EF-M lenses have a big enough image circle to work on a FF Sensor in a M body? If not, the emergence of a FF M is very very unlikely!
paul13walnut5 said:...
I always chuckle when I see folk wanting full frame mirrorless. They just haven't got the concept. Big sensor means big lenses. big. big. Not small.
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paul13walnut5 said:I always chuckle when I see folk wanting full frame mirrorless. They just haven't got the concept. Big sensor means big lenses. big. big. Not small.
The OM-Zuiko lenses were similarly sized. None of the Leica M-flange lenses offer autofocus which reduces diameter enormously. Secondly, the lens register is 27.80 mm compared with 18 for EOS-M.m said:paul13walnut5 said:I always chuckle when I see folk wanting full frame mirrorless. They just haven't got the concept. Big sensor means big lenses. big. big. Not small.
Isn't the opposite one of the reason why people like the leica system?
paul13walnut5 said:I always chuckle when I see folk wanting full frame mirrorless. They just haven't got the concept. Big sensor means big lenses. big. big. Not small.
AvTvM said:paul13walnut5 said:I always chuckle when I see folk wanting full frame mirrorless. They just haven't got the concept. Big sensor means big lenses. big. big. Not small.
One day soon Canon will finally be forced to come up with a super-compact (think Sony RX-1 size) hi-performance FF mirrorless body plus a couple of tiny but fully FF-capable pancake lenses with AF (think EF 40/2.8 size) and an adaptor for EF lenses. And if they manage to do so before somebody else does, I will buy it from Canon ...
Sella174 said:My opinion: (1) FF is a marketing gimmick to sell over-priced cameras; and (2) the 100D should have been a mirrorless camera, similar to the Panasonic G6 or GH3.
optikus said:Therefor for serious use I postulate some things which have to be happened until a Replacement of the mirror makes seriously sense:
- adequate electronic wysiwig-viewfinder
- permanent autofokus in the quality of the actual systems, incl. sensitivity under low ligh
- compatibility-bridge to the existing system
- new body-desing to bring serious advantage to the user.
optikus said:Therefor for serious use I postulate some things which have to be happened until a Replacement of the mirror makes seriously sense:
- adequate electronic wysiwig-viewfinder
- permanent autofokus in the quality of the actual systems, incl. sensitivity under low ligh
- compatibility-bridge to the existing system
- new body-desing to bring serious advantage to the user.
Jörg
Sella174 said:optikus said:Therefor for serious use I postulate some things which have to be happened until a Replacement of the mirror makes seriously sense:
- adequate electronic wysiwig-viewfinder
- permanent autofokus in the quality of the actual systems, incl. sensitivity under low ligh
- compatibility-bridge to the existing system
- new body-desing to bring serious advantage to the user.
On all four points above ... micro-4/3 is check, check, check & check. Mirrorless technology is here, now and fully usable. Conclusion? Canon is falling behind, as is Nikon, with only their lenses keeping the (obsolete) cameras afloat.
AvTvM said:re. size/weight advantage of mirrorles vs. DSLRs: yes, tele-lenses and tele-zooms like a 70-200/2.8 L IS will be the same size and weight and their use will almost nullify the size/weight advantage of a compact FF-mirrorless.
BUT unless totally specialized in photography of certain sports or wildlife, most photographers will not use tele-zooms or long tele lenses ALL the time on their cameras. Actually, many photographers will never use such lenses. Probably 99% of all images are captured using focal lengths between 24 and 100 mm. These lenses especially wide-angle for a FF camera body with a short flange back distance could be considerably smaller than current EF-lenses. Point in case is the Leica M-system and its "surprisingly small" (fixed focal) lenses. And contrary to common belief, adding a ring-USM AF drive would mean very little additional weight and bulk, since movable lens mass is quite small in these lenses. IS would ideally be in-body IS. Viewfinder image on an EVF can be stabilized by purely electronic means. Using a few clever algorithms and ample procesing power, legacy EF (tele) lenses with IS would work in tandem with the in-body IS to give up to 5 or even 6 stops total stabilization effect.
That would finally yield a really small and light kit for the many occasions when we want to go small and light without sacrificing anything in performance, speed, ergonomcis and IQ compared to a good but big DSLR. The only limitation would be available tele-range in native-mount. Only when we need more tele range will we then pack and carry a simple and cheap-to-build extension tube adapter without optical elements plus any existing EF-lens (tele/zooms). But only then. Not all the time.
This is what I am waiting for. My current 7D plus EF-S and EF lenses is my last DSLR-based system. I want and will "upgrade" as soon as I get a Canon EOS 5D-M with a mirrorless body only slightly larger than a Sony RX-1 - to accomodate a built in Hi-End EVF. With a new sensor with ultra-fast in-plane phase-AF of course and an image processing pipeline that at least fully matches the current Nikon D800. Along with in-body IS and built-in WiFi, GPS and EX-RT wireless flash radio commander ... these radio components can be had ridiculously cheap and small. Price? Clearly below a 5D III, since it is so much cheaper to make a mirrorlss body without all the hi-precision mechanical cr*p in it - mirror, sub-mirrors, large and expensive glass prism etc. And, Canon - please aslo do away with that mechanical shutter and start using fully electronic shutters with X-sync all the way to 1/8000s.
And put an "as large as possible" fully FF-capable lens mount up front. Along with a number of "as small as possible" FF pancake AF-lenses (think of the EF 40/2.8) between 20mm and 85mm [20/2.8, 35/1.8, 50/1.4, 85/1.8). Make them AF-only. Forget about those manul focus rings and gears. I don't ever use 'em. That way, it will be smaller, lighter, easier to fully weather-seal and lower cost. And for conven ience two hi-quality, ultra-compact "folding" zooms: a tiny 17-50/4 kit zoom and a 50-150/2.8 even smaller than the former Sigma 50-150/2.8. And the EF-adapter. That's all I need.