Hands-on with the Canon EOS R7

blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
785
1,023
Well most reviewers are saying that above iso 800 the R7 images start to look awful, what about your R6 Alan : what iso are you happy to go up to ?

I doubt the image quality is "awful" above iso 800. It should be no worse than any other APS-C camera. Sure, if you have no light then even ISO 400 will look awful.
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
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I doubt the image quality is "awful" above iso 800. It should be no worse than any other APS-C camera. Sure, if you have no light then even ISO 400 will look awful.
Well I'm sure the new Fuji aps-c camera is vastly better in low light with it's BSI stacked sensor and I wish Canon had chosen to make a high end aps-c body with similar tech
This R7 is great value for money but it's not what I'd hoped for and Fuji,(and also Sony and Nikon will probably make BSI stacked sensor aps-c soon) will probably leave them far behind in terms of flagship aps-c cameras sadly
 

blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
785
1,023
Well I'm sure the new Fuji aps-c camera is vastly better in low light with it's BSI stacked sensor and I wish Canon had chosen to make a high end aps-c body with similar tech
This R7 is great value for money but it's not what I'd hoped for and Fuji,(and also Sony and Nikon will probably make BSI stacked sensor aps-c soon) will probably leave them far behind in terms of flagship aps-c cameras sadly

I think we have seen before that BSI sensors don't really improve image quality in a significant way. Just compare the Fuji 26MP BSI sensors with the older 24MP. The old FSI sensor is even a little better at high ISO. Stacked sensor also won't improve high ISO performance, only rolling shutter and readout speed. So I'm not sure how it will be "vastly better in low light".

I think APS-C sensors reached almost the maximum in image quality department, I have not seen any significant jump in image quality for years now. The M6 Mark II (likely same sensor as the R7) does actually look a little better at high ISO than the BSI Sony A6400.
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
519
779
Orewa , New Zealand
I think we have seen before that BSI sensors don't really improve image quality in a significant way. Just compare the Fuji 26MP BSI sensors with the older 24MP. The old FSI sensor is even a little better at high ISO. Stacked sensor also won't improve high ISO performance, only rolling shutter and readout speed. So I'm not sure how it will be "vastly better in low light".

I think APS-C sensors reached almost the maximum in image quality department, I have not seen any significant jump in image quality for years now. The M6 Mark II (likely same sensor as the R7) does actually look a little better at high ISO than the BSI Sony A6400.
Well BSI gives about 1/2 stop more light at 90% hitting the diodes vs 60% for FSI as explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-...nsors are most,and other low light conditions.
Theoria Apophasis has a good explaination of why BSI sensors have better native SNR than conventional FSI:
Cheers
Noel
 

AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
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Well BSI gives about 1/2 stop more light at 90% hitting the diodes vs 60% for FSI as explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-illuminated_sensor#:~:text=BSI-CMOS sensors are most,and other low light conditions.
Theoria Apophasis has a good explaination of why BSI sensors have better native SNR than conventional FSI:
Cheers
Noel
That YouTube compares by scribbling on paper a Nikon D500 with a conventional sensor and the Nikon D850 with a BSI sensor. I have used both and can tell you that there is no difference in light noise between the two. And here is what is actually measured for a D500 APS-C and the D850 in crop mode from Photonstophotos.net. The D500 has actually got better noise characteristics! It is complete and utter drivel that a BSI sensor in these size ranges has 1/2 stop advantage in light gathering. The BSI sensor does have advantages in speed of read out and minor possibilities for light, especially in vignetting, but 1/2 a stop is nonsense - in practice there is minimal difference in iso and signal to noise. That superb BSI Nikon D850 sensor is no better than the R5's in my practical experience, and is also again measured to be slightly worse! Screenshot 2022-06-12 at 12.15.27.png Screenshot 2022-06-12 at 12.26.18.png
 
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blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
785
1,023
Well BSI gives about 1/2 stop more light at 90% hitting the diodes vs 60% for FSI as explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-illuminated_sensor#:~:text=BSI-CMOS sensors are most,and other low light conditions.
Theoria Apophasis has a good explaination of why BSI sensors have better native SNR than conventional FSI:
Cheers
Noel

Oh, cmon, quoting that guy with the most subjective videos on Youtube, a known fanboy of specific brands.
Yes, BSI gives better image quality in THEORY but we have not really seen that in practice. This is why I said go an compare X-T2 and X-T4 images on sites like DPReview. One is an old FSI and other is a much newer BSI design. You will see that the old non-BSI sensor has actually slightly better
high ISO performance.
 
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blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
785
1,023
That RF-S mount looks so ugly. It's the same size as the EF/EF-S but the smaller sensor looks ugly inside that big black plastic thing.
I know it does not matter but EF-S was much nicer designed.
 

vjlex

EOS R5
Oct 15, 2011
495
398
Osaka, Japan
I picked up my R7 yesterday (6/23). I haven't had much time to play around with it or a chance to look into the image quality yet. Hopefully I will do that over the weekend. I haven't been able to get the Bluetooth to connect to my phone (that Canon app is really annoying). Also, it seems the ability to back up settings that I was really glad to get in the R5 is not present in the R7. I guess they're going to keep that a premium feature. I get it, but wish they wouldn't.

I also have heard a lot of people talking about the build quality. But maybe my standards are just lower- I really like how it feels in my hand. And I like it's size. Small, but not too small. I'm really looking forward to a pancake lens that I can throw on this body and go. Those are some of my early impressions so far.
 
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LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
363
250
As an APSC and full frame user, I find it amusing that APSC is always treated as the poor second cousin to full frame cameras in many forums (usual arguments - more noise, worse dynamic range, etc, while ignoring specific use cases), until the Canon marketing hype hits, then they're somehow like a whole new technology that has never been seen before, and everyone needs to have! This is bewildering and just goes to show how much people are influenced by mindless marketing hype, especially when they're so keen to buy something without ever having seen it perform in real life. I suspect the R7 will be a great APSC camera, and those who use ASPC, such as macro and wildlife shooters, who liked the 80D and 90D will probably like this even more. I guess most 'reviewers' (influencers) are to blame due to the uncomfortable relationship they have with the companies. All glowing reports, if they give balanced reviews that highlight the pros and cons, rather than provide a free advertisement, and are critical of faults (R5 overheating anyone?) they won't be given the brand new toys to test next time round, so no early YouTube product review videos before release, and no money-earning clicks by getting reviews out before other reviewers. :rolleyes:
 
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vjlex

EOS R5
Oct 15, 2011
495
398
Osaka, Japan
So far I'm really enjoying the new features and capabilities of the R7. A few of them are making me ever so slightly envious that they are missing on the R5. One thing I noticed today is the Focal Length Display. On the R7 under the Shooting Info Display menu (red menu page 9), there is a Lens Info Display option. But for the R5, the Lens Info Display option does not exist. I find having the focal length on-screen really handy. I really hope some of these R7 firmware features trickle up to the R5.
 

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
2,101
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So far I'm really enjoying the new features and capabilities of the R7. A few of them are making me ever so slightly envious that they are missing on the R5. One thing I noticed today is the Focal Length Display. On the R7 under the Shooting Info Display menu (red menu page 9), there is a Lens Info Display option. But for the R5, the Lens Info Display option does not exist. I find having the focal length on-screen really handy. I really hope some of these R7 firmware features trickle up to the R5.
I could’ve used that on my R5 last week, I bumped my 100-500 to 238mm by accident and then wondered why it wouldn’t focus as close anymore. I only noticed it in Lightroom :/
I also my the focus distance indicator when using EF lenses, I haven’t used the 180mm macro long enough to know where the MFD is by intuition. The display helps a lot with that.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
27,245
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As an APSC and full frame user, I find it amusing that APSC is always treated as the poor second cousin to full frame cameras in many forums (usual arguments - more noise, worse dynamic range, etc, while ignoring specific use cases), until the Canon marketing hype hits, then they're somehow like a whole new technology that has never been seen before, and everyone needs to have!
I certainly see the former. I don’t really see the latter, but that may be because I don’t follow YouTube reviewers. The situation you describe makes sense, though, when you consider that the vast majority of reviews are done for the purpose of earning money from affiliate links. When there’s a new product, it’s praises are sung loudly. In between new product launch periods, the more expensive products get more praise because they generate more unit revenue.

As for reality, it’s objectively true that FF can deliver better IQ than APS-C, and that FF offers more exposure flexibility. I think those (e.g., forum members) who have switched from APS-C to FF tend overstate the benefits, likely that’s confirmation bias at work.

Bias goes the other way, too. Those using only APS-C sometimes downplay the advantages of FF because they’ve chosen to use APS-C. Often the reason for that choice is lower system cost (body + lenses), and that’s a great reason to choose APS-C.

Those who use both FF and APS-C recognize that these are tools and that it’s good to use the right tool for the job at hand. If I need a small/light kit and/or am shooting outdoors in daylight, APS-C is a good choice. If I’m shooting moving subjects in a school gymnasium, a FF body and fast lenses are a good choice. I’m fortunate to have both options.
 
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vjlex

EOS R5
Oct 15, 2011
495
398
Osaka, Japan
I discovered the Quick Menu customization option on the R7 yesterday. I heard people who had previously used cameras with it mentioning this feature missing when the R5 came out. It's a really great feature to declutter or move buttons around on the Quick Menu screen. I know that there is bound to be product differentiation, but there are some features in one body and not in another that baffle me. I wonder why Canon does this, particularly when lower level bodies have software features that the higher level ones don't (I believe this also happened when the newer, cheaper RP had focus bracketing while the more expensive R never got it).
 

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
2,101
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I missed out on the first batch of R7s and I called around to various stores. The largest photo related store in the Netherlands said they received ten R7 and had 'hundreds' of pre-orders. Other stores reported similar amounts. It seems that everyone got a batch of 10, I hope production ramps up.

So for the vacation next month I'll have to "make do" with the R5 :)
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
519
779
Orewa , New Zealand
I missed out on the first batch of R7s and I called around to various stores. The largest photo related store in the Netherlands said they received then R7 and had 'hundreds' of pre-orders. Other stores reported similar amounts. It seems that everyone got a batch of 10, I hope production ramps up.

So for the vacation next month I'll have to "make do" with the R5 :)
First world problems Koen
 
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