Help with event lens ( weddings, anniversary's, etc)

[brando72]

camera: 5dM2
Flash: 580 EX2
lens: 70-200 f/4 L IS USM

Question: I need a wide zoom or possibly prime wide angle for indoor shots of interior, groups of people, etc. I can't afford the 24-70II and my hands are not the most still and IS really helps me out when the I stop down and in certain instances don't use my flash but was wondering if I should get the original 24-70L 2.8 or possibly a third party brand, a canon prime, etc? The function of this lens will be at events where generally depth of field will not be much of an issue and most likely shooting at f/8 or f11 for maximum clarity and sharpness. I have my 70-200 at f4 for more isolating shots and thinner dof portraits. Of course the 16-35L looks real attractive to hit every wide focal point and then keep my 70-200 for portraits? It's just, with the 24-70 I can get a wide and then not have to switch lens to possibly get off a portrait shot if need be at 70? (only carrying one body on me)

Many Thanks!

Any recommendations or suggestions greatly appreciated?

 

[Loswr]

The 24-105mm sounds ideal for the situations you describe...

 

[brando72]

Thanks! Not possibly the new Tamron 24-70 or Cannon 16-35?

 

[NAshby]

If you are shooting indoors at weddings it's unlikely you will be shooting at f/8-f/11 even with a flash, these days the lights are always low and you can only compensate so far with a flash without starting to destroy the image.

The 16-35 is a surprisingly amazing lens to use for most situations inside and out (family formals, wide wide album shots, reception etc) and you already have the 70-200 for portrait shots. The 24-105 is a great in between lens, but it's just that right in the middle of what you want and if you tend to be on the shaky side already having a faster lens than f/4 will help indoors. If you want to read some more information about the lens's we use for wedding photography and our experience with them check out http://www.brovadoweddings.com/blog/equipment/photography/

Hope this helps

 

[prestonpalmer]

Based on your budget go with the 24-105. If you can spend a little more the 16-35 is also a great option. A little tricky for group shots though. I'd recommend 24-105 for versatility.

 

[brando72]

Based on your budget go with the 24-105. If you can spend a little more the 16-35 is also a great option. A little tricky for group shots though. I'd recommend 24-105 for versatility.

thanks. why is it tricky for group shots?

 

[chrisdeckard]

I used the 24-105 for two years before finally getting a 24-70. I wish I had just gotten the 24-70 right away. Indoors you won't need the extra reach and you can use a faster shutter with the f/2.8. It is my most versatile lens. Certainly primes knock it out in IQ, but at a wedding, birthday, or even family gathering, I love my 24-70.

 

[keithfullermusic]

my dream setup for a wedding would be a 5diii with a 16-35L, 50L, 85L and 70-200L. i think you would be golden if you had a few of those.

EDIT: didn't see that you wanted wide lenses, so i guess the 16-35 is the way to go. I have a 20mm 2.8 made by canon which i love. it is super sharp compared to others. it's not as wide as a 16 obviously, but its still really wide on a FF. also, i got mine for under 300 bucks used.

 

[keithfullermusic]

Based on your budget go with the 24-105. If you can spend a little more the 16-35 is also a great option. A little tricky for group shots though. I'd recommend 24-105 for versatility.

thanks. why is it tricky for group shots?

Not sure, but my guess is that it distorts perspective, especially around the edges. this leads to a cool look, but not desirable when taking traditional groups shots.

 

[JerryKnight]

Based on your budget go with the 24-105. If you can spend a little more the 16-35 is also a great option. A little tricky for group shots though. I'd recommend 24-105 for versatility.

thanks. why is it tricky for group shots?

I can attest that at 16mm on a FF body, if you happen to put someone's head in the corner of the frame, they get serious "egg-head syndrome." You can start to see this at 24mm, and you have to be careful with your corners and peoples' heads, but at 16mm, it's really bad. Of course, you can correct it in PS, but then you loose some of the wide-ness, and it can be lots of work to get it to look right. So if you do group shots with the 16-35 at 16mm, be sure to keep their heads closer to the center of the frame.

In your case, I recommend either the 24-105/4L or the 24-70/2.8L (version 1, to keep within your budget). If you really are planning on shooting at f/11 indoors, you're going to need tons of flash batteries and maybe a fire extinguisher because your 580ex2 is going to thoroughly hate you.

Remember, an Image Stabilizer can help with hand-shake, but it can't do anything about moving subjects, like at wedding receptions. You have to either shoot fast or use flash.

If you're thinking of primes, I recommend getting a 50mm/1.4 or the 28mm/1.8. Both are excellent and affordable lenses, so it depends on how wide you're wanting to be for most shots.

For particularly dark settings, like a wedding reception room, look into setting up a series of remote flashes on lightstands. Basic cross-lighting can be very effective and usually creates interesting lighting, shooting from any direction. It also takes much of the pressure off of your on-camera flash, especially if the ceiling is high or not a color you want to bounce flash off of. Maybe two lightstands with flashes (maybe some 430ex's on manual..), one on either corner of the dance floor, main table, etc., and your 580ex2 on your camera. Either get radio remotes or use the built-in optical remote on your 580 (radio remotes are typically more reliable). I've been experimenting with this and the results so far have been great.

EDIT: If you're good at recruiting slave labor assistants, another person with a remote flash attached to a monopod can do wonders for your lighting.

 

[vuilang]

if that's is your style (f8-f11 indoor), you can buy a kit lens such as 18-135IS and save alot money. Since from f8-f11, most lens aren't show a significiant difference in sharpness.

 

[CowGummy]

I also think pulling off f/8 - f/11 indoors without a flash is going to be non-starter with the 5Dii. And why would you want to? Shallow dof is great for wedding/event photography.
From what you've told us about the sort of things you'd be shooting with this lens, I too would go for either the 24-105 or the 24-70, depending on what is more important to you: Having IS or being able to go to f/2.8. My personal suggestion would be to go with the 24-105L (it's a great all-rounder) and then also invest in a fast prime, like the 50 1.4. Shooting fast indoors is pretty much a must if you don't want to go with a flash.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

My choice for similar events has always been the 17-55 2.8 - I suppose for full-frame cameras that would correspond most closely to the 24-70.

 

[bornshooter]

24-70 f2.8 L i love mines its a workhorse of a lens built to last.

 

[Tcapp]

If you really are going to stop down that far, its not going to matter what lens you get. Just get the cheapest lens with the focal length you want. However, I really doubt shooting your indoor event at f11 is going to turn out well. I shoot my weddings at 1.4-2.0. It is very rare that I go slower than 2.8, unless im shooting a large group not aligned in a straight line. Even then, you'll usually be using a wide lens and stepping back far enough that 2.8 will give you just enough dof to get everyone sharp.

 

[JR]

The 24-105mm sounds ideal for the situations you describe...

+1

 

[brando72]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm just interested in very clear and in focus shots. With the 2.8 and say a focal length of 24mm of a FF camera, will people in group shots be completely in focus? I thought more a 4.0 situation. I understand using thin DOF in many situations at events or wedding for the individuals or 2 people but what about for getting the sweet-spot of then lens and most clarity for group shots?

 

[Tcapp]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm just interested in very clear and in focus shots. With the 2.8 and say a focal length of 24mm of a FF camera, will people in group shots be completely in focus? I thought more a 4.0 situation. I understand using thin DOF in many situations at events or wedding for the individuals or 2 people but what about for getting the sweet-spot of then lens and most clarity for group shots?

A group at F4 would be good, depending on the group. Just please don't shoot at F11

Seriously, it just all depends on the situation. Generally, dont worry about lens "sweet spots" or lens sharpness or whatever. Just get the shot to the best of your ability and everyone will be happy!

 

[Bosman]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm just interested in very clear and in focus shots. With the 2.8 and say a focal length of 24mm of a FF camera, will people in group shots be completely in focus? I thought more a 4.0 situation. I understand using thin DOF in many situations at events or wedding for the individuals or 2 people but what about for getting the sweet-spot of then lens and most clarity for group shots?

24mm on a 5d FF at
10ft & F1.4 = 4.5 ft DOF (1.8ft in front of focus target and 2.7 behind the focus target) *TCAPP Zone
10ft & F2.8 = 10.4 ft DOF (3ft in front of the focus target and 7.4ft behind the focus target)
10ft & F4 = 19.4 ft DOF (3.8ft in front of the focus target and 15.6ft behind the focus target) *Overkill Zone

Really you could get away with F1.4 for group shots pretty nicely. F2.8 is def going to work, F4 is overkill at 24mm The reason i know this is i just got a 24 f1.4 and wanted to know just what to expect before real world wedding situations.

Lets compare the 50 F1.2 on FF
10ft & F1.4 = 1 ft DOF (0.5ft in front of focus target and 0.5 behind the focus target) *TCAPP Zone
10ft & F2.8 = 2 ft DOF (0.9ft in front of the focus target and 1.1ft behind the focus target)
10ft & F4 = 2.8 ft DOF (1.2ft in front of the focus target and 1.6ft behind the focus target) *Everyone should be close to the same row.

Tcapp do you use 24mm F1.4 for group shots? Do you use 24mm for group shots often? What is your experience?

 

[Tcapp]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm just interested in very clear and in focus shots. With the 2.8 and say a focal length of 24mm of a FF camera, will people in group shots be completely in focus? I thought more a 4.0 situation. I understand using thin DOF in many situations at events or wedding for the individuals or 2 people but what about for getting the sweet-spot of then lens and most clarity for group shots?

24mm on a 5d FF at
10ft & F1.4 = 4.5 ft DOF (1.8ft in front of focus target and 2.7 behind the focus target) *TCAPP Zone
10ft & F2.8 = 10.4 ft DOF (3ft in front of the focus target and 7.4ft behind the focus target)
10ft & F4 = 19.4 ft DOF (3.8ft in front of the focus target and 15.6ft behind the focus target) *Overkill Zone

Really you could get away with F1.4 for group shots pretty nicely. F2.8 is def going to work, F4 is overkill at 24mm The reason i know this is i just got a 24 f1.4 and wanted to know just what to expect before real world wedding situations.

Lets compare the 50 F1.2 on FF
10ft & F1.4 = 1 ft DOF (0.5ft in front of focus target and 0.5 behind the focus target) *TCAPP Zone
10ft & F2.8 = 2 ft DOF (0.9ft in front of the focus target and 1.1ft behind the focus target)
10ft & F4 = 2.8 ft DOF (1.2ft in front of the focus target and 1.6ft behind the focus target) *Everyone should be close to the same row.

Tcapp do you use 24mm F1.4 for group shots? Do you use 24mm for group shots often? What is your experience?

Sweet, I have my own zone!

I actually just got my 24 1.4 and have only used it on one wedding, but I did some group shots with it. Because I had to stand far enough back, 1.4 actually did work, and the shallower Dof made the photo pop. But to be safe I kinda of bracketed my aperture, so I took the same photo at 1.4, 2.0, and 4.0. For some reason, there were some that were just plain oof, so i don't know what exactly happened there... But they came out pretty good overall. If you are doing a group at 1.4, they HAVE to be in one single line, no layers. And the have to be straight. I only shot at 1.4 as an experiment to see what would happen, hence the bracketing. Usually, at dark receptions, I'll be shooting at F2.0 for a lot of shots, even groups, because preserving the ambient light is more important to me than if someone is just a tiny bit fuzzy in a group. You just have to make sure to flatten the group out, as people always have a tendency to come forwards and make a half circle when posing.

But yea, like i said, i just got my 24 prime, i had been using a the 24-70 zoom if i needed that length, and I don't think i ever stopped that lens down past 2.8... ever. But thats just me. I value the brighter light and subject isolation higher than maximum sharpness. I think everyone gets way too concerned about sharpness. There is more to an image than sharpness. As long as its in focus, it's fine. Its all about relative sharpness.

But anyway, since im doing all primes now (except my 70-200 2.8 is L), ill be using my 24 for large groups, my 50 for mid sized groups, and the 85 for 1-2 person shots. All my apertures will be between 2.0 and 2.8, unless its a multi layered group.