How best to post-process CR2 files of white flowers

rpt

Mar 7, 2012
2,787
21
India
Hi all, I have tried hard (as hard as I could...) but post processing of white flowers is really hard for me. There is a flower (the flower lasts just one night so in a few hours it will be "was"...) that is very beautiful. It is the Epiphyllum oxypetallum (Brahmakamal) an Orchid Cactus. I have taken pictures and posted them on Flickr at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rustom/sets/72157652997437403

One of the pictures is here:

RPT_9729 by Rustom Taraporevala, on Flickr

So when I edit, it either turns bluish or yellowish. When I get it to look white, I loose contrast and so the contours on the petals disappear. Not just this flower. There are other white flowers that I have a similar issue with.

Your suggestions and critique welcome.
 

rpt

Mar 7, 2012
2,787
21
India
Mt Spokane Photography said:
It depends on what you used for light. Lighting from LED's can be variable depending on the unit, light from a flash has lots of blue, if you are using a led flashlight, you are probably getting mixed colors that are hard to balance. In Lightroom, you can balance each color, that helps.
I used a halogen light for some and my 600-RT for others. The pic above I used a flash.
 
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Mar 25, 2011
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rpt said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
It depends on what you used for light. Lighting from LED's can be variable depending on the unit, light from a flash has lots of blue, if you are using a led flashlight, you are probably getting mixed colors that are hard to balance. In Lightroom, you can balance each color, that helps.
I used a halogen light for some and my 600-RT for others. The pic above I used a flash.

The one above looks white on my monitor, some of the ones you linked to have a bit rosey color, a halogen light can be warm, depending on the light. I try to use 5500K or close to it, since it approximates noon sun. I try to balance colors as I saw them rather than making them the color they might be in bright daylight, but what ever you like is the right choice.
 
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rpt

Mar 7, 2012
2,787
21
India
Mt Spokane Photography said:
rpt said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
It depends on what you used for light. Lighting from LED's can be variable depending on the unit, light from a flash has lots of blue, if you are using a led flashlight, you are probably getting mixed colors that are hard to balance. In Lightroom, you can balance each color, that helps.
I used a halogen light for some and my 600-RT for others. The pic above I used a flash.

The one above looks white on my monitor, some of the ones you linked to have a bit rosey color, a halogen light can be warm, depending on the light. I try to use 5500K or close to it, since it approximates noon sun. I try to balance colors as I saw them rather than making them the color they might be in bright daylight, but what ever you like is the right choice.
Thanks. I'll try over the weekend too. Probably it is time I invested in a screen calibration tool :)
 
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Maximilian

The dark side - I've been there
CR Pro
Nov 7, 2013
5,665
8,492
Germany
rpt said:
...
Probably it is time I invested in a screen calibration tool :)
I always recommend a screen calibration tool like "spyder pro" or else to anybody getting deeper into photography.
People spend lots of $ into equipment and are not willing to spend some $100 into a tool so usefull?
It does not have to be a full AdobeRGB autocalibrating monitor ;) That's even too much for me.
But you'll be surprised about the results fo those calibration tools because the sceen makers do prefer factory settings that "pop to sell". And those are wrong for good color and WB management.

Back on topic:
I honestly don't know if a calibration tool would help you to cope with your white color problem. This is quite tricky. But it would help you to feel more secure about your PP and results. And I am 100% at Mt Spokane's opinion:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
I try to balance colors as I saw them rather than making them the color they might be in bright daylight, but what ever you like is the right choice.
 
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rpt

Mar 7, 2012
2,787
21
India
Maximilian said:
rpt said:
...
Probably it is time I invested in a screen calibration tool :)
I always recommend a screen calibration tool like "spyder pro" or else to anybody getting deeper into photography.
People spend lots of $ into equipment and are not willing to spend some $100 into a tool so usefull?
It does not have to be a full AdobeRGB autocalibrating monitor ;) That's even too much for me.
But you'll be surprised about the results fo those calibration tools because the sceen makers do prefer factory settings that "pop to sell". And those are wrong for good color and WB management.

Back on topic:
I honestly don't know if a calibration tool would help you to cope with your white color problem. This is quite tricky. But it would help you to feel more secure about your PP and results. And I am 100% at Mt Spokane's opinion:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
I try to balance colors as I saw them rather than making them the color they might be in bright daylight, but what ever you like is the right choice.
Thanks. I will practise more. Thankfully I have CR2s with the flash and with the halogen light. The next couple of weekends will be booked :)
 
Upvote 0
Mar 25, 2011
16,848
1,835
rpt said:
Maximilian said:
rpt said:
...
Probably it is time I invested in a screen calibration tool :)
I always recommend a screen calibration tool like "spyder pro" or else to anybody getting deeper into photography.
People spend lots of $ into equipment and are not willing to spend some $100 into a tool so usefull?
It does not have to be a full AdobeRGB autocalibrating monitor ;) That's even too much for me.
But you'll be surprised about the results fo those calibration tools because the sceen makers do prefer factory settings that "pop to sell". And those are wrong for good color and WB management.

Back on topic:
I honestly don't know if a calibration tool would help you to cope with your white color problem. This is quite tricky. But it would help you to feel more secure about your PP and results. And I am 100% at Mt Spokane's opinion:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
I try to balance colors as I saw them rather than making them the color they might be in bright daylight, but what ever you like is the right choice.
Thanks. I will practise more. Thankfully I have CR2s with the flash and with the halogen light. The next couple of weekends will be booked :)

If you put the raws on a place like drop box, a few members might try their hand at correcting them. The issue can be missing colors in the spectrum of the illumination, and boosting them causes noise (usually blues). That's why warmer lights are more difficult to correct, the blues must be boosted more. Its a good test of a camera to use dim yellowish incandescent light and try to correct the colors.
 
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rpt

Mar 7, 2012
2,787
21
India
Mt Spokane Photography said:
rpt said:
Maximilian said:
rpt said:
...
Probably it is time I invested in a screen calibration tool :)
I always recommend a screen calibration tool like "spyder pro" or else to anybody getting deeper into photography.
People spend lots of $ into equipment and are not willing to spend some $100 into a tool so usefull?
It does not have to be a full AdobeRGB autocalibrating monitor ;) That's even too much for me.
But you'll be surprised about the results fo those calibration tools because the sceen makers do prefer factory settings that "pop to sell". And those are wrong for good color and WB management.

Back on topic:
I honestly don't know if a calibration tool would help you to cope with your white color problem. This is quite tricky. But it would help you to feel more secure about your PP and results. And I am 100% at Mt Spokane's opinion:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
I try to balance colors as I saw them rather than making them the color they might be in bright daylight, but what ever you like is the right choice.
Thanks. I will practise more. Thankfully I have CR2s with the flash and with the halogen light. The next couple of weekends will be booked :)

If you put the raws on a place like drop box, a few members might try their hand at correcting them. The issue can be missing colors in the spectrum of the illumination, and boosting them causes noise (usually blues). That's why warmer lights are more difficult to correct, the blues must be boosted more. Its a good test of a camera to use dim yellowish incandescent light and try to correct the colors.
Sure. I will share the images.
 
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You might consider what I often do for white dresses/shirts and teeth: local brush, de-saturate to desired level.

That said, on my calibrated IPS monitor, the flower you posted seems pretty white to me. I would not have noticed any off-putting colors had this been a "Post your best flower shots" thread. :) The yellow spill seems to go well with (and probably comes from) the pollen. Of course, I wasn't there and have no idea what it looked like in person. :p

Will be fun to fool with the RAW files if you post them...
 
Upvote 0
Apr 24, 2011
1,105
12
How "white" is it supposed to be? Been to a paint store lately? Lots of stuff called "white".

The image in the posting looks OK (lots of detail and crisp), but I don't like the lighting.

The first two images on flckr look "whiter", but they also look blown out.

Using a greycard in the frame and with your lighting may be the only way to fine tune it and get it "right".

Have you tried a custom white balance?

Because you are using CR2 files, have you tried the "auto tone" button in DPP?
 
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What I'm going to suggest is to start with proper exposure using the manual mode method...
The image that pops up in LV mode is based on the camera's jpeg rendition of the image, therefore,
start by neutralizing all of your cameras picture style settings. Move all the sliders to the left. Then,
expose to the right in manual mode, using a combination of SS, ISO, and f/stop...
your goal is to move the histogram, displayed in LV, to the right without touching the right edge.

Then, using a color picker, set your white balance in a shadowed area of the flower/snow/white bird/whatever.
Next set your RGB colors to no more than 245 or 96% using curves/levels/whatever to retain some texture in the subject.

It matters not a whit what you use for lighting providing you choose the WB in PP and manually expose initially
and display that histogram while in LV mode...that's the key.

In the event that a white object is not present in the scene, you should rely on some sort of gray card.
Remember that proper WB is a discretionary tool, ala, the eye of the photographer.

I use that method on 100% of my photography.
 
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.
Thanks, Chauncey. This is very helpful, to me anyway.

And the proof is in your gorgeous work. Thanks!!



chauncey said:
What I'm going to suggest is to start with proper exposure using the manual mode method...
The image that pops up in LV mode is based on the camera's jpeg rendition of the image, therefore,
start by neutralizing all of your cameras picture style settings. Move all the sliders to the left. Then,
expose to the right in manual mode, using a combination of SS, ISO, and f/stop...
your goal is to move the histogram, displayed in LV, to the right without touching the right edge.

Then, using a color picker, set your white balance in a shadowed area of the flower/snow/white bird/whatever.
Next set your RGB colors to no more than 245 or 96% using curves/levels/whatever to retain some texture in the subject.

It matters not a whit what you use for lighting providing you choose the WB in PP and manually expose initially
and display that histogram while in LV mode...that's the key.

In the event that a white object is not present in the scene, you should rely on some sort of gray card.
Remember that proper WB is a discretionary tool, ala, the eye of the photographer.

I use that method on 100% of my photography.
 
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Mar 25, 2011
16,848
1,835
rpt said:
Hi, sorry to be so late, my daughter is home for the weekend...

Here is the link to the .CR2 files.
https://www.dropbox.com/l/KsXeG3arhdnlCiI86htxNq

Here are some quick color balances in lightroom. I changed exposure and a couple of other parameters. About 30 sec per photo or less.

The issue is different colors in the lighting, and probably a mix of different colors. I just used the auto color in Lightroom and then tweaked the sliders to correct what I saw as error.

I'd bet that someone with better color vision could do very well. I don't even come close to passing the color vision tests.
 

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