How tightly do you frame your shots & and do you crop?

[Marsu42]

Some time ago, I've been told by an alleged pro photog that real photogs don't crop, or at least only do minor angle correction. I am wondering if this is true, or it is an old-school fairy tale from the analog age that falls into the category "real photogs don't use auto iso and only shoot in full m".

I've gotten much better framing my shots, but I wonder if squeezing the last pixels out of your camera makes sense all the time. If I have a hard time framing a wildlife shot just right to get max. resolution, the Nikon guy next to me just shoots 24 or 36 mp and then crops some, gaining flexibility (aspect ratio, different framing) while probably not loosing much iq for usual print/screen sizes.

When shooting raw stock you cannot crop, or with 1000+ shots of an event you of course don't want to crop some pixels from every one - so a 100% vf (which my 6d doesn't have) makes sense in these cases. But I also have recently experienced some situations where a couple of pixels to one side could have really helped in postprocessing, but I always have this nagging feeling that leaving more space around a subject simply isn't considered "proper".

Thus the question: How do you do it - better safe than sorry, or go for the full "no cropping, please" experience?

 

[Loswr]

It's there for a reason, and I use it without hesitation.

 

[Marsu42]

It's there for a reason, and I use it without hesitation.

By now, I'm also tending towards this - esp. since the 6D has the af points much more in the center than the 60d, so getting anything perfect framing means either mf or more focus & recompose = loosing more shots due to "thin dof out of focus" and "subject flew away" problems.

On the other hand, getting the framing right in camera does save postprocessing time and has a big training effect since you learn to compose in place and really have to know your equipment - so I'm undecided which way to jump.

 

[Loswr]

On the other hand, getting the framing right in camera does save postprocessing time and has a big training effect since you learn to compose in place and really have to know your equipment - so I'm undecided which way to jump.

Why do you have to 'jump'? You can crop some shots, not crop others. Note that if you frame perfectly, you'd also better get your camera perfectly level, since rotation results in cropping. Automatic lens corrections often result in some cropping, too.

 

[Marsu42]

Why do you have to 'jump'? You can crop some shots, not crop others.

Sure, there's not question about large series of event shots getting right in camera - I'm mostly wondering about the wildlife stuff.

Note that if you frame perfectly, you'd also better get your camera perfectly level, since rotation results in cropping.

Indeed, that's the very issue why I've written this thread and am wondering if leaving more space - no matter what alleged pro photogs might say - isn't a smart idea.

I recently have done a lot of wildlife macro in awkward angles and positions (like standing waist-high in cold water with my €3000 gadget 1cm above water level), and because I missed the level the framing got to tight and the shot was lost after rotation. Btw. I've now installed the Eg-D screen for that, it's great, very unobtrusive unless I want to see it.

 

[Random Orbits]

Indeed, that's the very issue why I've written this thread and am wondering if leaving more space - no matter what alleged pro photogs might say - isn't a smart idea.

I recently have done a lot of wildlife macro in awkward angles and positions (like standing waist-high in cold water with my €3000 gadget 1cm above water level), and because I missed the level the framing got to tight and the shot was lost after rotation. Btw. I've now installed the Eg-D screen for that, it's great, very unobtrusive unless I want to see it.

This was a bigger issue with lower MP cameras. With 1, 2, or 4 MP, every pixel counted more than it does now. I also try to leave a little space for rotations, perspective corrections. That was one nice thing about my previous camera. It didn't have a 100% VF, and I knew that if saw it in the VF, I'd have a little margin around the edges. Now I have to be more careful because that margin is gone. There have been occassional cases where I couldn't correct it as much as I'd like because I'd be making the image worse compositionally if I corrected it fully.

 

[Marsu42]

There have been occassional cases where I couldn't correct it as much as I'd like because I'd be making the image worse compositionally if I corrected it fully.

I agree, and for this reason & what I'm doing I like the 6d & 60d <100% vf - but I am almost always too fearful to write it, because this will make sure you'll get flamed to a crisp from people with "real" cameras :-o

 

[jdramirez]

that's silly. i have my trust 50 mm lens and I want to take a picture of that lion when he yawns... but I left my 400mm at home... so I guess I should walk right up to the lion and wait for him to yawn.... because cropping is taboo.

 

[Marsu42]

that's silly. i have my trust 50 mm lens and I want to take a picture of that lion when he yawns... but I left my 400mm at home... so I guess I should walk right up to the lion and wait for him to yawn.... because cropping is taboo.

I admit cropping 10% out of 20mp will just result "remembrance" shot, and one might decide to skip it and not clutter the hd with the raw file...

... but I've been told even better - the alleged pro photog I'm ranting about in this thread told me not only that real photogs never crop, but also that of course he never needs to do it. And he was using a prime lens but almost never moved a foot! That's when I realized the guy is an idiot and I'd better double-check whatever he tells/told me

 

[Skirball]

On the other hand, getting the framing right in camera does save postprocessing time and has a big training effect since you learn to compose in place and really have to know your equipment - so I'm undecided which way to jump.

I'm sure this could be true for big wedding/event photogs, but I'd guess that for the majority of people reducing their time spent cropping won't have a huge impact on their PP times. Press C/R (Photoshop/LR), adjust, accept. If it takes more than 15 seconds there probably isn't a "right" framing anyway.

 

[jdramirez]

that's silly. i have my trust 50 mm lens and I want to take a picture of that lion when he yawns... but I left my 400mm at home... so I guess I should walk right up to the lion and wait for him to yawn.... because cropping is taboo.

I admit cropping 10% out of 20mp will just result "remembrance" shot, and one might decide to skip it and not clutter the hd with the raw file...

... but I've been told even better - the alleged pro photog I'm ranting about in this thread told me not only that real photogs never crop, but also that of course he never needs to do it. And he was using a prime lens but almost never moved a foot! That's when I realized the guy is an idiot and I'd better double-check whatever he tells/told me

there's a Louis ck joke... I found the secret to having the body you want.. you just have to want a really bad body.

I guess the same goes for bad photography.

 

[takesome1]

that's silly. i have my trust 50 mm lens and I want to take a picture of that lion when he yawns... but I left my 400mm at home... so I guess I should walk right up to the lion and wait for him to yawn.... because cropping is taboo.

It would be better for you to walk up and get the close up without cropping.

At least it would be for us still in the jeep that didn't forget our 400mm's.
We in the jeep might get some shots that can go viral on the internet of you and the lion.

 

[Eldar]

it is of course OK to crop, rotate and fiddle with all the things PS and the others let you fiddle with. But I still believe you´ll become a better photographer if you try to frame things right from the start. Wildlife, sports and other activities, where you don´t control the distance and your subjects are all over the place, the new tools we got with high mega pixle digital cameras are great. Accompanied with big range zooms, like an 18-270mm etc. you can sit on your ass and get an image of most things. But they will not be great (most likely).

I don´t claim to be a great photographer, but I´m working on it. I try to work with whatever natural light I have and avoid flash. I try to avoid firing away, because images are for free and I got 12 fps available, but instead think the image through and push the shutter when I believe its right. To some extent I know it´s silly, but on the other hand, it gives me great pleasure when I nail it. That is also one of the reasons why I, on average, shoot better images with primes than with zooms. Primes makes me work, whereas zooms makes me lazy.

But again, I think everyone should think for them selves and figure out what works best for them. Condescending snobs, who know all the answers are in general a PITA and should be treated as such.

 

[Marsu42]

there's a Louis ck joke... I found the secret to having the body you want.. you just have to want a really bad body. I guess the same goes for bad photography.

) that's a good one, I'll remember that

It would be better for you to walk up and get the close up without cropping.

Zoo. Lion. Fences. Long, sharp teeth.

 

[takesome1]

Why do you have to 'jump'? You can crop some shots, not crop others.

Sure, there's not question about large series of event shots getting right in camera - I'm mostly wondering about the wildlife stuff.

For the most part, your best shots of wildlife will be those that do not require cropping.

Cropping is something we have to do because we do not have a long enough lens or we can not get close. It is something to do because we have to not because we want to.

 

[takesome1]

It would be better for you to walk up and get the close up without cropping.

Zoo. Lion. Fences. Long, sharp teeth.

How about sticking your hands through the fence so you can get a closer shot. That would be good.

 

[Marsu42]

How about sticking your hands through the fence so you can get a closer shot. That would be good.

Surprisingly, there seem to be a lot of serious injuries by this very method - all in the cause of perfect p&s or mobile phone shots, of course :->

I take it you must be using a zoom of some sort.

I'm thinking of macro wildlife here, you can adjust the framing a lot by moving a few inches with the prime macro lens. But yes, for the rest I use a 70-300L zoom and often zoom around until getting the best framing, and if it's at the long or short end I move myself.

 

[Sporgon]

I don't think a real pro photographer would tell you never to crop, at least not since digital cameras have become greater than about 4mp as another poster has just said. Also in the days of film we really didn't want to crop 35mm much, but boy have times changed with the digital 35mm type of camera.

If it is possible to maximise the scene you're taking on the sensor then do, but as Neuro has pointed out even a small degree of out of level horizon ( say 0.5 degrees ) crops the frame a lot when you straighten. As photographic artists we are all attempting to maximise the technical results from our equipment so I wouldn't habitually want to have allot of wasted space on the sensor, but reality is that you can crop a 20mp FF in half and still get a sizeable enlargement from it.

Just a personal note: I really wouldn't get hung up about 100% viewfinders vs 97%. it's no issue as long as you are aware of it IMO.

 

[pensive tomato]

I'm all for careful framing and composition, but my edges are not sacred (LR/CR "messes" them up all the time with lens corrections).

Also what about aspect ratios? Are we then supposed to be slaves to our cameras' sensor size? Or perhaps change the settings before taking a picture with a different aspect ratio? For example, I've found that squares worked better for some of my pictures, and I like having a bit of flexibility on where to put the square via cropping (fancy schmancy photog be damned!).

 

[dstppy]

I'm pretty much with everyone else:
Crop if you have to

As I got better, I found I have to do a lot less cropping and less frequently . . . that's basic experience once you get to know what you want in the frame.

I *DO* get irritated when I loan out my camera to a family member and have to constantly crop in PP. It's like: what were you TRYING to take a picture of?