I got defeated :(

[CanonGuy]

I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(

I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerence limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.

Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy

 

[BasXcanon]

Ok! Have a nice day with your camera!

BTW, what would you like to have that is not on the current 5Dm4?

 

[Ryananthony]

Way to stick it to Canon.

 

[mb66energy]

I understand your complaints ... and a not too extensive but larger lens set I am very satisfied with held me back to change the boat.

3 years ago I was willing to buy a FF body. The 5DsR was a possible candidate but I was not shure, if FF is for me. So I bought a 5D classic to check that. What an upgrade compared to 600D or EOS M in terms of IQ down to the pixel level - o.k. there weren't a lot of pixels compared to e.g. a 5Ds(R). And the 70-200 focal length range was no longer 110-320 equiv. so this zoom tend to feel a little boring.

5D classics DR is limited to roughly 11 stops that was annoying in a lot of (possible) photographs. And I waited for a medium priced FF body (2k EUR / USD).

At the end I bought the second cheapest interchangeable lens body from canon, the 200D / SL2 as the next body - low price, low risk. While a little bit restricted in terms of AF points & speed, physical controls, AFMA, a lot of other features it has some real advantages:
Very good IQ for an APS-C body, very good ergonomics, spot on exposure metering, DPAF and flippy screen as a real problem solver for weird compositions, much higher DR compared to my older cameras (while 18 stops would be more satisfying, as physicist I want the best and most comprehensive data possible).

No chance to make larger profits by Canon from me at the moment.

Still interested in FF body and waiting for 6D iii / 5D v / FF mirrorless for landscape / macro ...

 

[CanonGuy]

Ok! Have a nice day with your camera!

BTW, what would you like to have that is not on the current 5Dm4?

D850 is a much much better camera than 5d4 IMHO. 5D5 wont be here for another 3/4 years. A7rii is also a much better camera (sony lens selection was a bit turn off for me) in a number of ways. Imagine what will sony bring in next 3 years while Canon shooters will have to stick to 6d2/5d4 for next 3 years. These will look like dinosaur in 2 years. I wonder how long canon will have to play 'our products works' card and keep innovations in the locker! No company survived being this lazy and arrogant (Kodak, Blackberry, Nokia). Canon is simply falling behind IMHO. And this is their last chance from me. Absolute last chance.

If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.

 

[cellomaster27]

Ok! Have a nice day with your camera!

BTW, what would you like to have that is not on the current 5Dm4?

D850 is a much much better camera than 5d4 IMHO. 5D5 wont be here for another 3/4 years. A7rii is also a much better camera (sony lens selection was a bit turn off for me) in a number of ways. Imagine what will sony bring in next 3 years while Canon shooters will have to stick to 6d2/5d4 for next 3 years. These will look like dinosaur in 2 years. I wonder how long canon will have to play 'our products works' card and keep innovations in the locker! No company survived being this lazy and arrogant (Kodak, Blackberry, Nokia). Canon is simply falling behind IMHO. And this is their last chance from me. Absolute last chance.

If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.

Okay, so I'm NOT holding Canon up here! They are absolutely falling back spec and tech wise with their dslr lineup. I think the only reason they are in the market is due to their lens lineup.. To whoever reads this and for the general photo community:

With that being said, unless you need to do something that the camera does not offer (i.e. 4K, frame rates, DR..sure, aliasing filter, etc) your photo is not going to be any better or worse than another persons. On paper, sure, but in reality, hardly noticeable. Look, if you know what you're doing, who cares what camera you have because your photo is what matters. I've seen soooo many people with expensive gear and really nice gear but their photos are just trash. It's better to shoot with an iPhone at that point - waste of money. If you know what you're doing, then you could have a point and shoot and still come out with something wayyy better. And DR, I'm kind of sick of that... get your photos somewhat decently shot and you'll get the detail. I know the arguments there so I'll leave it at that.

With that being said, newer gear is going to be better and there's going to be a camera that can do something that yours can't. But instead of sitting in front of a computer and feeling like your camera isn't good enough, get out and improve on your photography. I'll bet 99% of the issues mentioned here doesn't have to do with not being able to get solid keepers. For me, when I get keepers, that's what matters. Whatever gear you have, I'll say, "show me what you got".

 

[Talys]

Congratulations on your camera! For me, the #1 thing missing on the 5DIV is a flippy screen. I don't know if I'd buy a 5DIV-priced camera if they had one, but I certainly won't until they do.

On the bright side, the user satisfaction of everyone I've known who has owned a 5DIV has been very high. I can't say the same about Sony A7RII -- there are always grumblings -- and I don't know anyone with a D850 yet.

If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.

Specs do matter, but diminishing returns from technical advancements are also a reality.

In actual usage, I think an A7RII is horrible. Technical enhancements be damned, pick a pro lens, and the body feels totally unbalanced -- even a 16-35/2.8 -- with the grip being god-awful. The camera actually feels really nice with the smaller kit lenses. But in reality, a top end lens will do a lot more for you than anything else, and that's not going to be short, light, or have a tiny diameter.

I won't lie, I'm jealous of a lot of D850 features, as I am of certain A7RII features (4k video not being among them, lol). However, things will change at some point, and it will be the other way around. And, I'm still very happy with my Canon glass, much more so than I would be with Nikon or Sony glass. And at the end of the day, an A7RII gives me much fewer keepers with wildlife, and I doubt the D850 would mean significantly more or fewer keepers, or, really, much different photos.

The things I need to improve with my hobby have nothing to do with the camera -- mostly it's field skills to get closer to the subject and to get better composed shots, and well, more time to become more practiced.

 

[Ian_of_glos]

It is a real shame that you feel that way. The 5D mark 4 is an expensive camera and you should not be feeling disappointed or thinking that you could have made a better choice.
When I bought my 5D mark 4 I too thought that perhaps I had made the wrong decision but now, after using it for 6 months I am really delighted with it. It doesn't really matter if another camera brand can do something that my 5D mark 4 can't do. It does everything I want it to do and it is a significant improvement on the 5D mark 3 so that is enough for me. I now can't wait for the weekend to arrive so I can go out and take some pictures. The excitement has returned and it feels just like when I bought my very first camera.
A friend of mine is studying photography at college and she uses a Canon 1100D with the 18-55 lit lens because that is all she is able to afford. Yet you should see the pictures she takes with it. They are absolutely brilliant and she has never once complained that she is unable to afford a better camera.

 

[Hector1970]

You'll probably end up being satisfied with the 5D IV
It's a very capable camera.
It was not an exciting upgrade.
It looked a feeble effort by Canon to stay close to competitors. Spec wise it's already outdated.
It is still however a great camera from a photograph perspective.
If your photos are not good with it , it's not the cameras fault. It's the user or the lens.
Canon may not be producing new exciting cameras but it's L lens are still top notch.

 

[tomscott]

Jesus... what a first world problem to have...

Pull yourself together.

 

[Maximilian]

Ok! Have a nice day with your camera!

BTW, what would you like to have that is not on the current 5Dm4?

D850 is a much much better camera than 5d4 IMHO. 5D5 wont be here for another 3/4 years. A7rii is also a much better camera (sony lens selection was a bit turn off for me) in a number of ways. Imagine what will sony bring in next 3 years while Canon shooters will have to stick to 6d2/5d4 for next 3 years. These will look like dinosaur in 2 years. I wonder how long canon will have to play 'our products works' card and keep innovations in the locker! No company survived being this lazy and arrogant (Kodak, Blackberry, Nokia). Canon is simply falling behind IMHO. And this is their last chance from me. Absolute last chance.

If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.

Wow! That's a really detailed description and Canon R&D will go to their department and process this requirement specification. :
"Much better" is the only thing I could read out of this. Much better - even if - is not very precise and very subjective. :

For your interest:
a German photo magazine came out with its D850 test and the OOC JPEGs of 5D4 did win over the Nikon.
Of course they did not do a RAW comparisons but "much better" seems to be much overstated.

So thank you for your rant over some spec lists, have fun and get used to your new - and very good - toy and tell us later, what's really missing. Thank you.

Jesus... what a first world problem to have...

Pull yourself together.

+1

 

[9VIII]

Ok! Have a nice day with your camera!

BTW, what would you like to have that is not on the current 5Dm4?

D850 is a much much better camera than 5d4 IMHO. 5D5 wont be here for another 3/4 years. A7rii is also a much better camera (sony lens selection was a bit turn off for me) in a number of ways. Imagine what will sony bring in next 3 years while Canon shooters will have to stick to 6d2/5d4 for next 3 years. These will look like dinosaur in 2 years. I wonder how long canon will have to play 'our products works' card and keep innovations in the locker! No company survived being this lazy and arrogant (Kodak, Blackberry, Nokia). Canon is simply falling behind IMHO. And this is their last chance from me. Absolute last chance.

If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.

You didn’t even try to answer the question.

What do you need that the D850 does and the 5D4 doesn’t do?

As far as I can tell “4K” is still basically the only major complaint, and even that is mostly a matter of file size.
Not everyone wants 45MP either.
Really it’s hard to imagine what Canon would have to do to get people to like the 5D4 any more because at this point they’re doing almost everything that you see on the competition.
Is it the lack of a Flippy Screen?

The default specs on the 5D4 are great, not amazing but people are overhyped for the D850 just because it’s an A7R that can actually autofocus.
Watch what happens with the 5DSR MkII.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Way to stick it to Canon.

Yeah, being unhappy with Canon but still buying Canon products.

That will learn 'em.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Lol. :

 

[BasXcanon]

The default specs on the 5D4 are great, not amazing but people are overhyped for the D850 just because it’s an A7R that can actually autofocus.
Watch what happens with the 5DSR MkII.

I had to think twice before I snagged the 5dm4, because it was a bit over budget.
I didn't want to buy a 6D and 5Dm3 because of missing touchscreens and the inability to use M mode with auto iso.
I didn't want the 5DSR because the files are too large.
I didn't want the 6Dm2 because of the weaker Auto white balance
I didn't want the 1DX because there are no discreet bags on the market for those cameras, (although I still own a 1DS).
I didn't want the 1DXm2 because of $$$$
I didn't want the A9 because of $$$, missing Flicker detection and DP+ Highlight protection, have no Sony lenses =(
I didn't want the A7Rii because of too large files and focus difficulties indoor.
I don't want Nikons because all of their zoom lenses and Teleconverters are optically less than Canon. (Sold my last Nikkor prime lens 6 months ago)

At the moment Canon came with the C-log change, I would rather had Canon discontinued the 5Dm4 and came with 5Dm4 II without: 30 fps frame grap/video/dual pixel BS for 500$ less and 5DC with 7 Digic processor, C-log, 6,5K video and focus peaking for 5000$ more.

But the real thing is, in the Nikon world you can get the D810 which has lesser larger files and the D850 that has large files an modern features. In the Canon it is the opposite, the 5Dm4 with all the novelties and the 5DSR with the largest detailed files.

On paper all those Sony and Nikons look good, because they can change their Raw files from 14b to 12b /and or Medium/small etc. In those situation the A6500 and D500 look like they have a buffer of 1500 photos and 10 times outperform the 7Dm2 (35 RAW). But once you need to dial Iso up to 800, and set focus priority and 14b Raw, it is more like 7Dm2 20 raw pictures vs D500/A6500 55 raw pictures.

The A7RII and D850 are not really that much above the 5Dm4.

My biggest 3 disappointments with the 5Dm4 are:
+The manual dial near the shutter cannot change the AF area selection like the 6DII and 80D. Thats what they want you to use the Area selection dial for, but I use that one for exposure compensation.
+The shutter release button in the Canon app to trigger you camera via WIFI is too small. I always try to hide my phone when doing self-portraits, but my fingers keep missing the tiny button in the App.
+The feature: lens drive when AF impossible was set ON by default, which mades my older Canon EF lenses 28-85mm and 400mm F5.6 failed focus too much. Should have been OFF by default in my oppinion.

 

[tron]

...

My biggest 3 disappointments with the 5Dm4 are:
+The manual dial near the shutter cannot change the AF area selection like the 6DII and 80D. Thats what they want you to use the Area selection dial for, but I use that one for exposure compensation.
+The shutter release button in the Canon app to trigger you camera via WIFI is too small. I always try to hide my phone when doing self-portraits, but my fingers keep missing the tiny button in the App.
+The feature: lens drive when AF impossible was set ON by default, which mades my older Canon EF lenses 28-85mm and 400mm F5.6 failed focus too much. Should have been OFF by default in my oppinion.

Smoe thoughts about your ... biggest disappointments.
1. You can use the rear dial for exposure compensation. But since you mentioned my preference: M mode with exp compensation there is a very helpful way to setup exp compensation: You configure the SET button for exp compensation to use when in Manual Auto ISO mode. So you press the SET button and turn the main dial accordingly. It is a very powerful/helpful feature. I suggest you try it.
2. Although a Canon app issue it is not a 5D4 specific one. They can fix it by upgrading the Android/IOS app. OK maybe the correct wording here should be "if upgrading" and not "when upgrading" but still not a 5D4 issue.
3. You can easily set the setting to OFF when you buy a new camera. It is not a big deal. Still even at the OFF setting you may encounter no autofocus issues when the lens focus ring is way off (the image is very blurred). In that case you can help it by turning the ring manually a little. These are rare cases but do happen even with modern lenses. On another topic since you bought such an expensive camera maybe you could upgrade the 28-85 lens say to a 24-105L

 

[BasXcanon]

...

My biggest 3 disappointments with the 5Dm4 are:
+The manual dial near the shutter cannot change the AF area selection like the 6DII and 80D. Thats what they want you to use the Area selection dial for, but I use that one for exposure compensation.
+The shutter release button in the Canon app to trigger you camera via WIFI is too small. I always try to hide my phone when doing self-portraits, but my fingers keep missing the tiny button in the App.
+The feature: lens drive when AF impossible was set ON by default, which mades my older Canon EF lenses 28-85mm and 400mm F5.6 failed focus too much. Should have been OFF by default in my oppinion.

Smoe thoughts about your ... biggest disappointments.
1. You can use the rear dial for exposure compensation. But since you mentioned my preference: M mode with exp compensation there is a very helpful way to setup exp compensation: You configure the SET button for exp compensation to use when in Manual Auto ISO mode. So you press the SET button and turn the main dial accordingly. It is a very powerful/helpful feature. I suggest you try it.
2. Although a Canon app issue it is not a 5D4 specific one. They can fix it by upgrading the Android/IOS app. OK maybe the correct wording here should be "if upgrading" and not "when upgrading" but still not a 5D4 issue.
3. You can easily set the setting to OFF when you buy a new camera. It is not a big deal. Still even at the OFF setting you may encounter no autofocus issues when the lens focus ring is way off (the image is very blurred). In that case you can help it by turning the ring manually a little. These are rare cases but do happen even with modern lenses. On another topic since you bought such an expensive camera maybe you could upgrade the 28-85 lens say to a 24-105L

Thanks Tron,
but my Set button is for the quick flash menu option. The way the 80D/6Dm2 can toggle between 1 point AF and 9 points combined is the best there is for me.

The app is indeed not camera related, but I use the smart app a lot more for live view than I did with the 80D because of the missing vari-angle screen. But I got all my EFS sold, and have a G1Xm3 on pre order.

I have considered the 24-70mm F4, but I would only use that one as a 'on the go lens'. Which is what the G1Xm3 is gonna do for me. If I can find one that offers 100$ for the 28-85 I would rather get the 28mm F2.8 IS again.

 

[AlanF]

My biggest 3 disappointments with the 5Dm4 are:
+The manual dial near the shutter cannot change the AF area selection like the 6DII and 80D. Thats what they want you to use the Area selection dial for, but I use that one for exposure compensation.
+The shutter release button in the Canon app to trigger you camera via WIFI is too small. I always try to hide my phone when doing self-portraits, but my fingers keep missing the tiny button in the App.
+The feature: lens drive when AF impossible was set ON by default, which mades my older Canon EF lenses 28-85mm and 400mm F5.6 failed focus too much. Should have been OFF by default in my oppinion.

If they are your biggest disappointments, then the 5DIV must be a terrific camera.

 

[Orangutan]

If you argue specs don't matter, then no company should release new cameras. Because you know specs don't matter lol.

No one argues that. The question is to what degree those specs will translate into better photos and a more enjoyable experience for you.

 

[scottkinfw]

I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(

I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerence limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.

Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy

You are not defeated. Was the purchase a need like breathing, or a want like a Porsche vs. a Chevy or Ford? If your current kit wasn't limiting you, and you didn't like the offerings, just wait, or get a 1DXII or a 5Dsr or something.

Most of us have GAS and we all know that Canon has long product cycles, but their gear works great.

Just my 2 cents, not criticism.

scott