Industry News: Fujifilm to launch the GFX 100S this month

cayenne

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The original GFX 100 seems like a great camera let down by some very questionable ergonomics. That portrait grip looks painful as does the tiny joystick. Hopefully Fuji addresses complaints in this new smaller body. An 80mm 1.7 combined with the great 110mm f2 would make a great system.


I ended up getting the Really Right Stuff L-Bracket, and I really have no problem with the 2nd grip, especially with this on.

I don't find the joystick to be a problem, no more so than the joystick on my older canon 5D3.

The original GFX100 IS big...but seems to be in the range of the Canon 1DX.....it too is large but folks still seem to sling it around.

I've not found the ergonomics to be a problem. But then again, I'm so used to my 5D3 where I Just turn the whole camera for portrait mode but keep my hands on those controls, that I do the same with the gfx...I don't change grips.....so, maybe that's it.

I'm spent on money, but I will be anxious to see what this new smaller form factor of the GFX100 offers. With it being smaller, I wonder if overheating, especially with video would be a concern?

C
 
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cayenne

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Photons to photos shows a less than 1 stop advantage over the R5 (similar age and resolution) at most iso's and never more than 1 stop, so nothing that extensive.

Increased resolution? I have heard that argued before but I don't understand the reasoning for it and from the sample images I have found it seems very similar to a comparable resolution sensor with a bayer array but no AA filter.

From a technical point there really isn't much justification for the monochrome, BUT, this isn't just a technical art form. I'd love to have the disposable income for an M10 Monochrome to play with and it would take me back to my roots of hundreds of rolls of B&W developed in my bedroom and, to the consternation of my mum, bathroom and sometimes kitchen!

As it is I find the B&W Picture Style pretty effective at getting the occasional B&W fix as that is what it shows on the camera preview and, as I said earlier, would find the color channel adjustability of desaturated color images in RAW much more useful, effective and artistically interesting than out of the box B&W captures.

I can see a viable market for monochrome Leica's, I can't see the same for Canon R5's.

Hey PBD.

The M10M is truly a fun experience.

If you get a chance, maybe on a free weekend, I'd highly recommend you maybe rent one and give it a try....see for yourself.

I poopooed the $$$$ Leica "experience" myself for years reading about these things...but I have to admit, it has turned out to be a fun shooting experience, and this is the camera I tend to just grab and carry everywhere for casually shooting....

But anyway, with the many discussions you and I have had over the years....I think you'd really get. a kick out of it, so do maybe rent one for a long weekend and give it a test drive.
:)

cayenne
 
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Sporgon

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Well, a few months ago, I hocked a kidney and got a Leica M10 Monochrom.

From shooting it so far, I believe the advantages they tout about a monochrome sensor.


Yes, you do have to watch to make sure you don't blow your highlights out, but if you've ever shot color negative film, you're used to this...not that big a deal.

So, expose to keep your highlights sane....and so far, I've found I have HUGE latitude in post to bring up and recover shadows if need be.

Hey ! @cayenne, colour neg film has really robust highlights, in fact with some it's virtually impossible to over expose it ! Positive film on the other hand, that's a very different story.

I think somewhere in one of your posts you said that the M10M makes you think in B&W, and I agree that for really good B&W you have to look at the world in that way. Having colour constantly at your disposal is a distraction. This is proved by the fact that one way to kill an image is to show both B&W and colour versions side by side, yet some people (who should know better IMO) in their portfolios do just this. Also I don't think that colour filter simulations in software have quite the same effects as the actual colour filters used over the lens on a B&W film / sensor. I know that this shouldn't be the case, but in practice that's what I find. However having said that, if a normal Canon digital sensor is good enough in B&W for the likes of Salgado, then who am I to argue ? :) He does go through a very convoluted process of writing the digital image back to 5x4 film negative, adding film grain simulation and then enlarging and wet developing on silver halide paper in the traditional way, so it's hardly like us doing a B&W conversion and inkjet printing, but even so I find it interesting that a B&W king like Salgado has given up film and gone to a conventional Bayer array sensor, and not, to the best of my knowledge, to a Leica monochrome, despite the fact he was very much a Leica man in the days of film.

The Fuji DMF do seem to be interesting cameras but looking at it from a totally focused output point of view, I can't see that the modest increase in size of the sensor area is worth the extra cost and inflexibility compared with such a mature and comprehensive system such as FF Canon EOS.


I know it is new to me, but lately I'm really starting to think Paul Simon had it wrong....I"m starting to think the world looks better in Black and White!!!
:D
cayenne

I think you're right !
 
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cayenne

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Hey ! @cayenne, colour neg film has really robust highlights, in fact with some it's virtually impossible to over expose it ! Positive film on the other hand, that's a very different story.

I think somewhere in one of your posts you said that the M10M makes you think in B&W, and I agree that for really good B&W you have to look at the world in that way. Having colour constantly at your disposal is a distraction. This is proved by the fact that one way to kill an image is to show both B&W and colour versions side by side, yet some people (who should know better IMO) in their portfolios do just this. Also I don't think that colour filter simulations in software have quite the same effects as the actual colour filters used over the lens on a B&W film / sensor. I know that this shouldn't be the case, but in practice that's what I find. However having said that, if a normal Canon digital sensor is good enough in B&W for the likes of Salgado, then who am I to argue ? :) He does go through a very convoluted process of writing the digital image back to 5x4 film negative, adding film grain simulation and then enlarging and wet developing on silver halide paper in the traditional way, so it's hardly like us doing a B&W conversion and inkjet printing, but even so I find it interesting that a B&W king like Salgado has given up film and gone to a conventional Bayer array sensor, and not, to the best of my knowledge, to a Leica monochrome, despite the fact he was very much a Leica man in the days of film.

The Fuji DMF do seem to be interesting cameras but looking at it from a totally focused output point of view, I can't see that the modest increase in size of the sensor area is worth the extra cost and inflexibility compared with such a mature and comprehensive system such as FF Canon EOS.




I think you're right !

Oops..yes, I got my terminology backwards...I mean the color positive film....I seem do that term swap way too often.
:O

Hmm...isn't the DMF sensor about 70% larger than FF? While it isn't as large as what would be equivalent to true MF film, it does seem to offer distinct advantages over the FF sensor.

I"ve done the zooming in on the GFX100 images and it is is pretty amazing how much info that thing captures.

Not for everyone, but I am hopeful it becomes a bit more mainstream.

With the new 100MP GFX100S....coming in possibly at the $5999 range....well, that might get folks thinking that it isn't THAT much more than a R5 and maybe save and spring for that for some truly PRO needs....?

Their lenses for the DMF are in the same basic ballpark price range as newer RF lenses...so, it isn't that much a stretch....

Just some thoughts.
C
 
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ReflexVE

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I hardly believe in that NEW sensor. Most likely the same gfx 100 , in another form factor. May be they have made ibis smaller this time and therefore ommit grip.
The sensor is not a secret, Sony offers it as part of their catalog. It would be strange for Fuji to offer a new GFX and stick to the 6 year old sensor in the current one.
 
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Sporgon

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With the new 100MP GFX100S....coming in possibly at the $5999 range....well, that might get folks thinking that it isn't THAT much more than a R5 and maybe save and spring for that for some truly PRO needs....?

Their lenses for the DMF are in the same basic ballpark price range as newer RF lenses...so, it isn't that much a stretch....

Just some thoughts.
C
It is interesting that with Canon upping the premium on the higher-end RF bodies and lenses it is moving their prices closer to the lower DMF systems. I seem to remember that in the days of film the bottom-end MF cameras (mainly 645) were only slightly more expensive than the top tier 35mm cameras, so not much has changed there except that then there was a significant IQ uplift, whereas now I wouldn't call it significant.

However having spent four years with 5DS cameras I think that 50mp is pushing the boundaries for FF format, and if I was really needing a 100mp system and it was a choice between something like this DMF Fuji or a FF Canon R5S, both priced reasonably close to each other, I'd go for the DMF without any hesitation.
 
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The sensor is not a secret, Sony offers it as part of their catalog. It would be strange for Fuji to offer a new GFX and stick to the 6 year old sensor in the current one.

Wow i did not know, gfx 100 , released 2019, had 4 year old sensor by then ...

would you throw some proof / links, sony having a new 102mpx , and the one in gfx100 is 6 years old.

In my opinion the real bottleneck is still the motherbord / chipset and not the sensor. If fuji can make more powerful processor abd faster motherboard , then we might get extra 0.5 stops or smthing out of old sensor. Do you remember how long canon 18 mpx was on the market and every time they upgraded processor we got a hair better perpormance.
 
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ReflexVE

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Wow i did not know, gfx 100 , released 2019, had 4 year old sensor by then ...

would you throw some proof / links, sony having a new 102mpx , and the one in gfx100 is 6 years old.
Feel free to dig through the FujiRumors archives, they've talked about it extensively. The sensors in both the GFX100 and the 50S/R are fairly old which is why they were able to even get them cheap enough to put in prosumer grade cameras (I believe they were 27k at release). The 50MP ones don't even have phase detect AF and none of them are BSI which is normally a Fuji standard.

The 100S is supposedly using a modern BSI, fully phase detect capable 100MP sensor. It should be a substantial upgrade over what came before.
 
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cayenne

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Feel free to dig through the FujiRumors archives, they've talked about it extensively. The sensors in both the GFX100 and the 50S/R are fairly old which is why they were able to even get them cheap enough to put in prosumer grade cameras (I believe they were 27k at release). The 50MP ones don't even have phase detect AF and none of them are BSI which is normally a Fuji standard.

The 100S is supposedly using a modern BSI, fully phase detect capable 100MP sensor. It should be a substantial upgrade over what came before.

It appears the older GFX100 in fact does have BSI and also phase detect capable 100MP sensor too....

GFX100 Specs listed here

It will be interesting to see what they do add to the GFX100S....or take away to make it cheaper....

cayenne
 
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ReflexVE

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It appears the older GFX100 in fact does have BSI and also phase detect capable 100MP sensor too....

GFX100 Specs listed here

It will be interesting to see what they do add to the GFX100S....or take away to make it cheaper....

cayenne
My comparison was intended to be against the 50S, not the GFX100. The 50S was not BSI or phase detect and suffers for it. I have a 50R and honestly AF is not good at all and due to the high resolution manual focus is a lot tougher than on my APS-C cameras.
 
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dolina

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In future I would not be surprised that FujiFILM GFX medium format bodies will hit these price points occupied by full frame bodies

$4k

- 2016 Canon EOS-1D X Mark II
- 2021 Fujifilm GFX 50S II ($3.5k summer promo price)

$3.9k

- 2020 Canon EOS R5

$3.7k

- 2019 Panasonic Lumix DC-S1R

$3.5k

- 2019 Panasonic Lumix DC-S1H
- 2020 Sony a7S III

$3k

- 2020 Nikon Z7 II
- 2021 Sony a7R IVA

$2.5k

- 2019 Panasonic Lumix DC-S1
- 2020 Canon EOS R6
- 2021 Sony a7 IV
- 2022 Fujifilm X-H2S (APS-C body is highest-end X-mount body)

$1.5k

- 2015 Canon EOS 5DS R (Cheapest 50+ megapixel body)
 
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EOS 4 Life

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In future I would not be surprised that FujiFILM GFX medium format bodies will hit these price points occupied by full frame bodies

$4k

- 2016 Canon EOS-1D X Mark II
- 2021 Fujifilm GFX 50S II ($3.5k summer promo price)

$3.9k

- 2020 Canon EOS R5

$3.7k

- 2019 Panasonic Lumix DC-S1R

$3.5k

- 2019 Panasonic Lumix DC-S1H
- 2020 Sony a7S III

$3k

- 2020 Nikon Z7 II
- 2021 Sony a7R IVA

$2.5k

- 2019 Panasonic Lumix DC-S1
- 2020 Canon EOS R6
- 2021 Sony a7 IV
- 2022 Fujifilm X-H2S (APS-C body is highest-end X-mount body)

$1.5k

- 2015 Canon EOS 5DS R (Cheapest 50+ megapixel body)
$2.5K and $1.5K would surprise me.
That would go up against their APS-C lineup.
 
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dolina

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$2.5K and $1.5K would surprise me.
That would go up against their APS-C lineup.

I agree.

I mentioned the 2022 Fujifilm X-H2S as it is the highest-end X-mount body. It could also mean it is the the lowest price of any future GFX body before the 2030s.

This could be done by repricing the 2021 Fujifilm GFX 50S II to ~$2.5k when its replacement comes out or a new GFX boy SKU could come out approaching that price point.

On 11 Sept 2022 FujiFILM PH store on Lazada PH offered the 2021 Fujifilm GFX 50S II + 2021 Fujifilm GF 35-70mm F4.5-5.6 WR lens kit for $3,811.78 12% VAT inc. The lens is a $1k 12% VAT ex value and minus 12% VAT the body-only drops down to $2.4k.

I mention the 2015 Canon EOS 5DS R as its release price of $3.9k was the cheapest way to get 50+ megapixels 7 years ago.

Today at $1.5k it is the cheapest body to get 50+ megapixels.

The 2014 Sony a7 II is currently the cheapest full frame body at $900.
 
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ReflexVE

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I have serious doubts GFX will come down to a MSRP of $2.5k anytime in the next decade, although I could see sales occasionally reaching that level. I do think the entry point will get to around $3k body only, especially as they keep speeding up the system with better processing and faster sensors. The 100S performs very well now, I can only imagine how well it would do coupled with the CPU in the X-H2. My guess is mid-range FF territory for photos (significantly less for video).

I don't think the gap is that wide between GFX and FF options now, depending on which you choose to compare with. R3/A1/Z9 are on another level, but vs some of the resolution focused FF options GFX offers better image quality for a bit slower performance. A trade many of us would make.
 
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cayenne

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I have serious doubts GFX will come down to a MSRP of $2.5k anytime in the next decade, although I could see sales occasionally reaching that level. I do think the entry point will get to around $3k body only, especially as they keep speeding up the system with better processing and faster sensors. The 100S performs very well now, I can only imagine how well it would do coupled with the CPU in the X-H2. My guess is mid-range FF territory for photos (significantly less for video).

I don't think the gap is that wide between GFX and FF options now, depending on which you choose to compare with. R3/A1/Z9 are on another level, but vs some of the resolution focused FF options GFX offers better image quality for a bit slower performance. A trade many of us would make.
Yeah...some of the GFX lenses are in the $2K+ range....haha.

I have both systems, and they definitely have their uses. For when I have time to shoot...products, art stuff, landscapes...I love my GFX.
But for action, concert shooting, etc...I still bring my Canon. I do, often now, however, use a Holdfast harness for 2x cameras and will hang my GFX on one side and Canon on the other...using my 70-200 f/2.8 lens as my long lens and just a 50mm on the GFX, to shoot wide, and I know I can crop a hell of a lot if I need on that one too if something need more close up love. But I don't depend on it for action shots.

Every job has a tool.

Hell, when I'm not part of the concert staff and just an audience member, on night shows, I just bring my M10M in, with some longer lenses...since that thing can almost see in the dark....so, whatever fits the job!!
 
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ReflexVE

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What is surprising to me is the reviews I've been reading not being happy with the ISO performance.

IIRC larger photosites on the image sensor means more exposure to light.

As the image sensor has a crop factor of 0.79x then shouldn't it suck in light with little noise?
It depends on what you are doing with the image. If you are 1:1 pixel peeping at 100MP it will not have any better high ISO than an equivalent density sensor of another size. For the sensor used in the 100S (and the new Hasselblad) the pixel density is identical to the 26MP APS-C sensor used in the X-Trans IV bodies like the X-T4. As a result you aren't going to get better high ISO performance, the pixels are the same size and just as dense.

That said, there is little production value for a 100MP image file, typically it would be down sampled and in that situation more data gives better results, it'll look much nicer than that same 26MP image once scaled to a similar resolution.
 
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cayenne

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What is surprising to me is the reviews I've been reading not being happy with the ISO performance.

IIRC larger photosites on the image sensor means more exposure to light.

As the image sensor has a crop factor of 0.79x then shouldn't it suck in light with little noise?

So far, I have had no complaints on the ISO performance.

I have the GFX100, not the 100S, but I believe they have the exact same sensor....

cayenne
 
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