Lens choice for airshows

[Scott_McPhee]

I have a Canon 5D MARK III body and have been shooting air shows using my 70-200 f2.8L IS II with a Canon 2 x III extender.

This works pretty well but I could be doing with some extra reach so I am looking at a new lens or lens/EX combination without selling body parts to finance it.

I have come down to the following options:

Canon 400mm f5.6 L with a 1.4 TC - this will get me just under 600mm but at f8.
This worries me in low light situations and I am unsure how the 5D3's AF will suffer - it might not be good for airshows.

Canon EF 300mm f4 L IS USM with either a 1.4 or 2 x TC - this gives me IS and with the 1.4 TC a 420mm lens with f/5.6 and IS. I could also use the lens with a 2X converter to get a 600mm lens with f/8 and IS.
Once again though I am concerned about image quality and AF performance, particularly as I will be focusing fast jets.

Does anyone have a similar combination and can help with the performance of this body/lens and the image quality I can expect?

Sharpness is king for me, I was looking at the new Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD but I have ruled it out due to the poor image quality above 500mm.

 

[Loswr]

If sharpness is king for you, putting a TC behind anything other than a 'great white' will result in a pretty significant IQ hit. For example, comparing the 400/5.6L to the Tamron 150-600, they are similar in sharpness at 400mm, and the Tamron is slightly sharper at 500mm and only slightly softer at 600mm than the 400/5.6 + 1.4x. For the 300/4L IS, the Tamron is sharper at 400mm than the 300/4 + 1.4x, and also sharper at 600mm than the 300/4 + 2x. The Tamron is also sharper at 400mm than the 70-200 II + 2xIII that you have been using (that comparison is shown here, you can use the drop-down menus to compare various options).

In all those cases, the AF can be an issue. However, Bryan (TDP) indicates that the AI Servo performance of the Tamron is pretty good. Putting a TC on a Canon lens slows down the AF - by 50% with a 1.4x TC and by 75% with a 2x TC. Plus, the Tamron would allow you to use all your f/5.6 cross-type points whereas with the 560/600mm f/8 Canon combos, you're limited to the center point with 4 surrounding expansion points.

Prior to the release of the Tamron 150-600mm, I'd have said the 100-400L was arguably the best lens for an air show. The flexibility of the zoom is quite useful, and the IQ is very good. Honestly, given the above, in your place I'd have another look at the Tamron - it's as good or better up to 500mm than the other options you're considering, and at 600mm it's actually quite simliar in sharpness to the 70-200 II + 2xIII.

The unfortunate reality is that if you want longer than 400mm with excellent sharpness and fast AF, you really need to be looking at the big supertele lenses. If that means selling body parts and you're unwilling to part with a kidney or a lung, you'll have to compromise - and the Tamron is actually a pretty good compromise, IMO.

 

[Scott_McPhee]

Excellent points Neuro, Makes perfect sense to me.
Having shot with the 70-200 f2.8L II? 2 x TC III combination at a few airshows last year I was pleased with the quality, but having to frequently crop at 100% I was always going to get image degradation.

I had my eye on the Tamron but Tool reviewed it and the 500-600mm shots he posted were very poor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fmMG5jgDwk

Also, due to the lack of worldwide stock I am struggling to get hold of one of them, even to try, but it may be better to wait and see what I think when I actually get hold of one.

An actual airshow will be the ultimate test though!

If sharpness is king for you, putting a TC behind anything other than a 'great white' will result in a pretty significant IQ hit. For example, comparing the 400/5.6L to the Tamron 150-600, they are similar in sharpness at 400mm, and the Tamron is slightly sharper at 500mm and only slightly softer at 600mm than the 400/5.6 + 1.4x. For the 300/4L IS, the Tamron is sharper at 400mm than the 300/4 + 1.4x, and also sharper at 600mm than the 300/4 + 2x. The Tamron is also sharper at 400mm than the 70-200 II + 2xIII that you have been using (that comparison is shown here, you can use the drop-down menus to compare various options).

In all those cases, the AF can be an issue. However, Bryan (TDP) indicates that the AI Servo performance of the Tamron is pretty good. Putting a TC on a Canon lens slows down the AF - by 50% with a 1.4x TC and by 75% with a 2x TC. Plus, the Tamron would allow you to use all your f/5.6 cross-type points whereas with the 560/600mm f/8 Canon combos, you're limited to the center point with 4 surrounding expansion points.

Prior to the release of the Tamron 150-600mm, I'd have said the 100-400L was arguably the best lens for an air show. The flexibility of the zoom is quite useful, and the IQ is very good. Honestly, given the above, in your place I'd have another look at the Tamron - it's as good or better up to 500mm than the other options you're considering, and at 600mm it's actually quite simliar in sharpness to the 70-200 II + 2xIII.

The unfortunate reality is that if you want longer than 400mm with excellent sharpness and fast AF, you really need to be looking at the big supertele lenses. If that means selling body parts and you're unwilling to part with a kidney or a lung, you'll have to compromise - and the Tamron is actually a pretty good compromise, IMO.

 

[Loswr]

I had my eye on the Tamron but Tool reviewed it and the 500-600mm shots he posted were very poor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fmMG5jgDwk

Have a look at this post: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=20668.msg391571#msg391571

 

[Scott_McPhee]

I had my eye on the Tamron but Tool reviewed it and the 500-600mm shots he posted were very poor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fmMG5jgDwk

Have a look at this post: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=20668.msg391571#msg391571

Mr Northrup may not be the photographer he claims to be

Impressive!

 

[expatinasia]

As Airshows are normally over a couple or more days, have you considered renting? You could rent them both and see which you prefer before you buy one for the next Airshow.

I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for, and while I have been at events where I am next to guys using the Tamron, the build quality of Canon's super whites is second to none imho.

 

[wickidwombat]

biggest negatives of the tamron are

no panning mode IS (probably not an issue for airshows)

the throw of the zoom ring is ridiculously long

the zoom ring goes the wrong way the canon zoom direction is ergonomically much better than the nikon direction especially for starting at the long end and zooming wider as the object approaches. You do get used to it but its an annoyance.

the zoom ring is also quite stiff at the wide end I think its loosening up over time though.

Benefits of the tamron

ITs bang for buck is unequalled

it has stunning IQ from 150 to 500 and 600 is still excellent (there is WAY too much internet hype about 600mm being "Soft")

The AF is amazingly good it is fast and tracks superbly it leave any other lens i have used with TC in its dust including the 70-200 II with 2XTC mk3

Its VC is good and works well if you are not panning

105mm B&W UV filters cost 25% of the price of the lens itself...

Build quality feels excellent IMO its alot of plastic but the good sort and feels similar to my 100 f2.8L IS macro

Its easily hand holdable for long periods

 

[Scott_McPhee]

Brilliant post mate - tells me everything from someone who actually owns the lens.

I was worried about the scaremongering with regards to the softness at 600mm and the focusing problems - especially as I will be shooting at airshows, but you have cleared this up.

The focal length is perfect for me on the 5D3 as I have such a zoom range I can leave the lens on the camera constantly.

I just need to get my hands on one, they are impossible to get just now.

Did you find that you are able to correct any 600mm softness in post?

biggest negatives of the tamron are

no panning mode IS (probably not an issue for airshows)

the throw of the zoom ring is ridiculously long

the zoom ring goes the wrong way the canon zoom direction is ergonomically much better than the nikon direction especially for starting at the long end and zooming wider as the object approaches. You do get used to it but its an annoyance.

the zoom ring is also quite stiff at the wide end I think its loosening up over time though.

Benefits of the tamron

ITs bang for buck is unequalled

it has stunning IQ from 150 to 500 and 600 is still excellent (there is WAY too much internet hype about 600mm being "Soft")

The AF is amazingly good it is fast and tracks superbly it leave any other lens i have used with TC in its dust including the 70-200 II with 2XTC mk3

Its VC is good and works well if you are not panning

105mm B&W UV filters cost 25% of the price of the lens itself...

Build quality feels excellent IMO its alot of plastic but the good sort and feels similar to my 100 f2.8L IS macro

Its easily hand holdable for long periods

 

[wickidwombat]

Tonight I'll dig out some 600 zoo shots I think you will see its a non issue at 600 the tamron is about the same as the 70-200 mk 2 with the 2x tc mk 3 on I own both and have shot with both the panning mode of the 70-200 combo is it's main advantage. I find the AF of the tamron to be superior to this combo too

 

[wickidwombat]

Oh I also have the 300f4L IS and with the 2x tc it doesn't come close to the tamron
In IQ or AF

 

[wickidwombat]

ok here is a random 600mm shot from the zoo
full size undedited
100% crop unedited
100% crop edited with clarity and sharpness
full size edited

 

[Scott_McPhee]

Great pics mate - I have one on order so fingers crossed I get it soon - before the airshow season anyway!

 

[Scott_McPhee]

My Tamron arrived - first shots with it at the local airport:

(The forum has cropped the right side of the shot off so click on it to view it on my Flickr in full size.)

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

 

[Menace]

My Tamron arrived - first shots with it at the local airport:

(The forum has cropped the right side of the shot off so click on it to view it on my Flickr in full size.)

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Glasgow Airport 2014 by Scott_McPhee, on Flickr

Well done mate - enjoy.

 

[2n10]

Congrats on the arrival. Great shots both of you. I am seriously considering this lens for birding thanks to the great looking 600mm shots.

 

[jhpeterson]

Might I suggest a used 300mm f:2.8, perhaps one of the non-IS models. I've had two of them over the last 20+ years and they've served me well.
It's an incredibly sharp piece of glass and still gives awesome images with the 1.4x and 2x iii converters.

And, no, I'm not selling mine!

 

[Scott_McPhee]

From what I have experienced with it so far, nothing comes close to the Tamron at this price.

Excellent lens and superb reach for the money, if you can get hold of one.

 

[wickidwombat]

From what I have experienced with it so far, nothing comes close to the Tamron at this price.

Excellent lens and superb reach for the money, if you can get hold of one.

Haha told you so

glad its working for you
seriously good bang for buck isn't it?

 

[Scott_McPhee]

From what I have experienced with it so far, nothing comes close to the Tamron at this price.

Excellent lens and superb reach for the money, if you can get hold of one.

Haha told you so

glad its working for you
seriously good bang for buck isn't it?

Yes my friend, really impressed with it, quality is superb.
Got a surprise call from the camera store to say there was one waiting for me so took the 5D3 in and tried it out.
Bought it 5 minutes later.
To get this quality and reach at the price is unbelieveable.

Now, can it track a Eurofighter? Let's find out!

 

[bholliman]

I think the Tamron 150-600 would be an excellent airshow lens. Probably the best available option for less than $6K. I ordered one from B&H several weeks ago am an still waiting. I'm hoping it will arrive before our vacation to Alaska in mid June.

I had my eye on the Tamron but Tool reviewed it and the 500-600mm shots he posted were very poor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fmMG5jgDwk

I've read or watched most of the on-line reviews of the Tamron 150-600 and Tool's review is the only one that is mostly negative in regards to sharpness. Maybe he received a poor copy of the lens?