Lightroom "Classic" New Features Real World Experience

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I confused the issue with my uploading comments.

LR CC uploads images to the cloud.

With LR Classic CC, you determine which images to upload by placing them in a collection that you set to sync with LR CC cloud. I think that all Lightroom cloud images sync with LR Classic CC when you do this.

Thats how I use it, so my tablet and phone images sync to my pc via the cloud. I have not found a way to get images from my cameras to automatically sync to LR CC Cloud, maybe Jeffrey Friedl will write a app? I can, of course sync to the Canon cloud.

 

[docsmith]

Is anyone else finding LR "Classic" buggy? It is freezing up on me, screen is going green or other multi-colors. At times it seems faster, but if it is already exporting, it does not want to do anything else, something I was able to do with the previous LR version.

I could be a fan if it starts operating smoother, but right now, I feel like I am working with software from the 1990's....

 

[Frodo]

I'm a confused user since LR 1.0. I "refreshed" my 7 year old Windows 10 machine and went to reintall LR. This was not helped by a "technical problem" at Adobe.com that did not have a record of my registrations. Anyway it prompted me to "update" to Lightroom Class CC, which I understand is the subscription model. With a lot of searching I finally found a place where I could download LR 6.13. So all is sweet.
By the way, I find that my PC (old i7 quad core 2.8 cpu and 6GB RAM) is okay, even with 5Ds files. But my expectations are probably lower than most of you. I'd like a faster PC but my priorities were camera, display and printer....

 

[martti]

Where I live, I have to choose whether I watch garbage TV series on Netflix or download upgrades.
There is not enough bandwidth to do both.
Even having the LR catalog on Dropbox gives hiccups to Netflix.
I wonder if people living in the 1st world realize what they have.


Well I have what they (you?) don't have.
The Indian Ocean, for instance.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Where I live, I have to choose whether I watch garbage TV series on Netflix or download upgrades.
There is not enough bandwidth to do both.
Even having the LR catalog on Dropbox gives hiccups to Netflix.
I wonder if people living in the 1st world realize what they have.


Well I have what they (you?) don't have.
The Indian Ocean, for instance.

I'm rural, so its a choice of a wireless ISP, Satellite or maybe a modem? I chose Wireless ISP, service is slow, but reasonable. The tower that transmits ices up in the winter and can knock out service.

About 3 weeks ago, they replaced my radio with a less powerful 5 ghz band unit, and my downloads shot up to over 30 Mbps, so I've been very happy.

 

[Talys]

Where I live, I have to choose whether I watch garbage TV series on Netflix or download upgrades.
There is not enough bandwidth to do both.
Even having the LR catalog on Dropbox gives hiccups to Netflix.
I wonder if people living in the 1st world realize what they have.


Well I have what they (you?) don't have.
The Indian Ocean, for instance.

Most people in North America, even when they have relatively slow internet connections, don't get slower internet speeds based on what they watch on "cable" TV, even when that TV is provided over the Internet (like DSL). Here, the internet uses a side channel with quality of service, reserved bandwidth just for TV, so that a Windows update doesn't screw up your television. The TV also doesn't slow down the Internet, because otherwise, nobody would ever buy services like DSL (they would get cable).

Except for people who are fortunate enough to have fiber, most people here will have cable or DSL, which means an asymmetric connection, and specifically, much faster downloads than uploads. Still, in most cases, uploading photos up to the cloud should not affect downstream traffic in any noticeable way.

And finally, if it's important for you to do so, you can always constrain the upload bandwidth (and just take longer to upload your files).

However, all that said, I only briefly had Lightroom CC (no classic) installed. I'm not sure, on the desktop, why as a photographer I would ever choose it over regular Lightroom CC Classic. It wouldn't work anyways, because my historical files go on a long time, over many hard drives, and I'd have to upload 10 terrabytes of photos up to the cloud.

 

[LDS]

Still, in most cases, uploading photos up to the cloud should not affect downstream traffic in any noticeable way.

It could. Some protocols are bidirectional, you receive data, but need also to send some data back to signal the transmission is happened as expected. If the upload channel is fully used by a connection, as it often happens with bulk uploads of large files like photos or videos, other connections may have issue to send those packet within the required time, and the source may slow down transmission or re-transmit data thinking the destinations can't cope or didn't receive the data.

ADSL upload channels are deliberately limited by the standard, you can get 3Mb only with special setups, otherwise it's 1Mb. VDSL and fiber allows for much higher upload speed. Some mobile standards are better, as long as the local radio capacity is not exceeded by many users.

The solution is to limit the bandwidth used by the upload channel - or get a connection with better upload speed.

Many cloud storage offerings will be hampered by the lack of adequate speed until they are improved, and it could become soon a driver to invest in faster networks.

 

[Talys]

Still, in most cases, uploading photos up to the cloud should not affect downstream traffic in any noticeable way.

It could. Some protocols are bidirectional, you receive data, but need also to send some data back to signal the transmission is happened as expected. If the upload channel is fully used by a connection, as it often happens with bulk uploads of large files like photos or videos, other connections may have issue to send those packet within the required time, and the source may slow down transmission or re-transmit data thinking the destinations can't cope or didn't receive the data.

ADSL upload channels are deliberately limited by the standard, you can get 3Mb only with special setups, otherwise it's 1Mb. VDSL and fiber allows for much higher upload speed. Some mobile standards are better, as long as the local radio capacity is not exceeded by many users.

The solution is to limit the bandwidth used by the upload channel - or get a connection with better upload speed.

Many cloud storage offerings will be hampered by the lack of adequate speed until they are improved, and it could become soon a driver to invest in faster networks.

Actually, TELUS ADSL is 5Mbps up/25Mbps down. Prior to fiber, I had both cable and dsl, and the upload speeds on both were pretty good (4.3+ sustained uploads on ADSL).

The solution, however, as I mentioned, is to constrain your upload channel to a lower speed, or, better, configure QoS on your network hardware.

 

[martti]

@MountSpokane: Our rate limiting step is the cable where we are at the very end. Another factor is that all trafic from here is routed by Paris. True, they sell fiber connections here but even though you get lightin fast connections within the Réunion Island, once you go overseas you are looking at 800k.


@Talys: Adobe did not supply LR CC here at all for a while. They did not want to sell the 'Classic' either. I went through all kinds of things to get it downloaded, finally with the help of a guy in Finland working for Adobe. The French guy was even more ignorant than I. Cloud based services are for the First World. Here they are of no use.Or what if you go to China? the connections are totally unpredictable there, the private customer being at the bottof of the feeding chain.

 

[Talys]

@Talys: Adobe did not supply LR CC here at all for a while. They did not want to sell the 'Classic' either. I went through all kinds of things to get it downloaded, finally with the help of a guy in Finland working for Adobe. The French guy was even more ignorant than I. Cloud based services are for the First World. Here they are of no use.Or what if you go to China? the connections are totally unpredictable there, the private customer being at the bottof of the feeding chain.

By the way, please don't get me wrong; I'm not advocating for the cloud-only LR. I am not a fan, simply because I think that 30MB-100MB files are way to freaking huge to put up to the cloud automatically. At least, not until fiber as fast as SSDs are common and people can get a tens or hundreds of terabytes of cloud storage as an affordable service.

In the absence of that, cloud services for something like Lightroom should be, at most, "sync these specific folders". Whether your upload speed is 1, 3, 5 or 15 megabits really doesn't make a difference. A 128GB SD card will take forever to upload. I mean, it's brutal even at 200 megabits, which is blazing fast for the internet, and still relatively slow for local storage.

In that context, I'm curious. In your region, if Adobe wasn't supplying Lightroom CC (cloud version) and also not Classic (the one we're used to)... were they promoting any kind of Lightroom at all?

 

[LDS]

Actually, TELUS ADSL is 5Mbps up/25Mbps down. Prior to fiber, I had both cable and dsl, and the upload speeds on both were pretty good (4.3+ sustained uploads on ADSL).

ITU G.992.3 Annex J e G.992.5 Annex M have a theoretical max speed of 3.5 Mb/s - and you also need to be close enough to the DSLAM (and have good copper between).

I'm not denying you're getting those speed, but it doesn't look a plain ADSL2/ADSL2+ connection over phone copper wires, unless bonding is used. I've never seen those speeds offered over ADSLx, but only where DOCSIS or VDSL are employed (or symmetric solutions).

You're lucky, for most people on ADSL connections, the upload speed is or will become an issue to upload to cloud storage a lot of data.

 

[Don Haines]

@MountSpokane: Our rate limiting step is the cable where we are at the very end. Another factor is that all trafic from here is routed by Paris. True, they sell fiber connections here but even though you get lightin fast connections within the Réunion Island, once you go overseas you are looking at 800k.


@Talys: Adobe did not supply LR CC here at all for a while. They did not want to sell the 'Classic' either. I went through all kinds of things to get it downloaded, finally with the help of a guy in Finland working for Adobe. The French guy was even more ignorant than I. Cloud based services are for the First World. Here they are of no use.Or what if you go to China? the connections are totally unpredictable there, the private customer being at the bottof of the feeding chain.

I live in a rural area, about 70K outside Ottawa, capitol city of Canada. While those in town enjoy download speeds of 50 Mbits/sec and uploads around 8, I have downloads at 500K and uploads at 100K. Then we have the remote communities up north, where the entire community is sharing a 20Mbps satcom link, complete with the associated delay.... high speed internet is not universal, even in the so called first world

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

@MountSpokane: Our rate limiting step is the cable where we are at the very end. Another factor is that all trafic from here is routed by Paris. True, they sell fiber connections here but even though you get lightin fast connections within the Réunion Island, once you go overseas you are looking at 800k.


@Talys: Adobe did not supply LR CC here at all for a while. They did not want to sell the 'Classic' either. I went through all kinds of things to get it downloaded, finally with the help of a guy in Finland working for Adobe. The French guy was even more ignorant than I. Cloud based services are for the First World. Here they are of no use.Or what if you go to China? the connections are totally unpredictable there, the private customer being at the bottof of the feeding chain.

I live in a rural area, about 70K outside Ottawa, capitol city of Canada. While those in town enjoy download speeds of 50 Mbits/sec and uploads around 8, I have downloads at 500K and uploads at 100K. Then we have the remote communities up north, where the entire community is sharing a 20Mbps satcom link, complete with the associated delay.... high speed internet is not universal, even in the so called first world

I would have thought you could get Hughes Gen 5, but I looked at a map of the spot beams and there is a gaping hole at Ottawa. I hope they decide that they can cover the area. I wouldn't wish satellite internat on anyone who had a reasonable alternative, I've been there. It is great if you have 500K though. Gen 5 has 30 MB/sec downloads, but the high latency makes many tasks miserable.

My WISP has reasonable latency of 7-11 ms. Not great, but far better than the satellite internat.

 

[Don Haines]

@MountSpokane: Our rate limiting step is the cable where we are at the very end. Another factor is that all trafic from here is routed by Paris. True, they sell fiber connections here but even though you get lightin fast connections within the Réunion Island, once you go overseas you are looking at 800k.


@Talys: Adobe did not supply LR CC here at all for a while. They did not want to sell the 'Classic' either. I went through all kinds of things to get it downloaded, finally with the help of a guy in Finland working for Adobe. The French guy was even more ignorant than I. Cloud based services are for the First World. Here they are of no use.Or what if you go to China? the connections are totally unpredictable there, the private customer being at the bottof of the feeding chain.

I live in a rural area, about 70K outside Ottawa, capitol city of Canada. While those in town enjoy download speeds of 50 Mbits/sec and uploads around 8, I have downloads at 500K and uploads at 100K. Then we have the remote communities up north, where the entire community is sharing a 20Mbps satcom link, complete with the associated delay.... high speed internet is not universal, even in the so called first world

I would have thought you could get Hughes Gen 5, but I looked at a map of the spot beams and there is a gaping hole at Ottawa. I hope they decide that they can cover the area. I wouldn't wish satellite internat on anyone who had a reasonable alternative, I've been there. It is great if you have 500K though. Gen 5 has 30 MB/sec downloads, but the high latency makes many tasks miserable.

My WISP has reasonable latency of 7-11 ms. Not great, but far better than the satellite internat.

One of the things that I do at work is satellite ground stations.....hmmmmmm...... We aren't using that 13.5 meter dish....... I wonder if anyone would notice? That would give me 160MB bidirectional link if I could afford to pay for the entire X-band transceiver on the satellite.... Probably about 10 dollars a minute if I can negotiate a discount.....

Or I could just wait until the land coms get upgraded.... Fiber is now about 8K away.....

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Or I could just wait until the land coms get upgraded.... Fiber is now about 8K away.....

It might cost less to setup a relay from a hilltop where fiber is located. You could share it with others and get yours free by charging the others.

Out here in the country, fiber is strange. A local rural power utility setup fiber to all its customers at no cost to them. The utilities are prevented by law from selling internet or phone services to users but can wholesale it, so you buy the service from a retail dealer for about the same price as cable internet.

The utility serves only the neighboring county, so it goes about 7 miles from me and stops. Our utility is not interested in providing Internet, they include quite a bit of city areas so the Rural folks get ignored.

 

[LDS]

I'm curious. In your region, if Adobe wasn't supplying Lightroom CC (cloud version) and also not Classic (the one we're used to)... were they promoting any kind of Lightroom at all?

That could become another absurdity of the subscription/cloud model when they feel the need to divide customers among "regions" - because of prices segregation and other silly amenities - and people living in some special locations risk to be excluded, or have anyway big issue to use software that has no reason not to be easily available there too.

With old licensing methods in you could have a CD shipped or download the installer without much issues.

The issue I'm afraid is marketing people see "exotic" locations only as holiday destinations where "locals" are there only to be at your service for your personal entertainment...

 

[Talys]

Out here in the country, fiber is strange. A local rural power utility setup fiber to all its customers at no cost to them. The utilities are prevented by law from selling internet or phone services to users but can wholesale it, so you buy the service from a retail dealer for about the same price as cable internet.

The utility serves only the neighboring county, so it goes about 7 miles from me and stops. Our utility is not interested in providing Internet, they include quite a bit of city areas so the Rural folks get ignored.

One thing I really have to commend TELUS for, is that they've extended PureFibre to many rural communities, some of them with barely four-digit populations in the middle of nowhere (and I think the plan is to have nearly all of them on fiber). They've also added rural communities concurrent with the metro rollout, so even though many rural areas are waiting for fiber, so are a lot of urban communities.

 

[martti]

Talys:
In that context, I'm curious. In your region, if Adobe wasn't supplying Lightroom CC (cloud version) and also not Classic (the one we're used to)... were they promoting any kind of Lightroom at all?



"Promote" is not the correct word.
The French Adobe shop had no idea how I could get the "Classic" version of LR.
In Helsinki (where I come from) there was a professional person on the phone who helped me to get to the page where the SW was available. Such a possibility was not visible on the French pages at all.
The problems with Photoshop made me download and learn Affinity Photo.
Now, quite recently, I was able to download PS CC but I have not been using it at all.
This is how you lose clients but who cares as long as you master the market share.

 

[jayjay88]

The problems with Photoshop made me download and learn Affinity Photo.

That was a blessing in disguise, Martti I also use Affinity and don't regret dumping Photoshop at all