NAS storage advice

[Ladislav]

Yesterday I returned from Tankfest with about 80GB of pictures and when trying to import them to Lightroom I realized that I don't have enough space on my hard drives to copy them to my computer. I have been thinking about buying a proper storage for quite some time but money went always to something more interesting (understand some new lens).

My current storage approach is really terrible but it worked for me so I used it for 5+ years. I'm using two 2TB drives (they may be about 6-7 years old now). One is master, second is backup. They are not in RAID. My computer is 10 years old and I didn't use its SW RAID provided by motherboard utilities. I'm doing backups manually since I'm also applying some logic in my backups (processed folders go to different place than those not processed yet). Those drives are mostly used for photo storage. Most of photos stored there are garbage which are waiting to be processed but that is another story - right now they have to be stored.

Since my computer is 10 years old (Windows desktop), it has other limitations - no USB 3.0, no SATA 3, etc. I could just put a new disk to my computer and continue with the way how I was doing things for past few years but I'm also considering replacing the computer this or next year and having photos stored on external device would simplify migration later. It would also open possibility to go for laptop instead of desktop.

I expect NAS storage to solve my problem with space and provide me very reliable automatic backup mechanism. I would also expect it to be significantly faster than just single disk but also significantly more expensive. I don't really care much about all the video transcoding and server features modern NAS storages provide. I think my requirements are:

• 4 bay
• 1Gb Ethernet (1 have 1Gb network at home) - 2 ports are better
• Support for M.2 SSD module - I will add it in the future as cache
• Not sure how performant it should be but most of devices in this category are 4 core and can have up to 8GB RAM
• It should have USB 3.0
• It should work with both Windows and Mac

It looks like best match are Synology DS918+ and QNAP TS-423Be although they seem to be bit overkill. They support many more features I don't need.

I would configure it with 4x4TB or 4x6TB WD Red or Seagate IronWolf drives. Even 16TB (about 8TB real storage) should cover me for years.

It is also good to point out, that this is not my business. I'm just enthusiasts and this is my hobby. I never made a penny by photography yet.

What are your experiences with NAS storage and accessing RAW photos from Lightroom over network?

Before someone asks why just not to use use cloud storage?

• I'm using cloud storage as backup for processed photos which are usually about 10-20% of what I shot.
• I would still want local copy.
• I have asymmetric Internet connection - fast downloads, slow uploads. Trying to upload 80GB would take ages and would be best way to end up with fair use policy clause in the contract.

 

[privatebydesign]

My experience of NAS is mixed, if I only had one computer I'd definitely swap it all out for a similar case that was a DAS (I have a four drive QNAP TS-453A), it is just so much simpler.

Don't get me wrong, as a NAS the QNAP is amazing, but configuration system wide is far from simple and it takes a lot of time to figure out what setup is best personally given the extreme array of options, and, whatever anybody else might say, Ethernet is slower to work with than DAS especially if you even think of doing video or big PS files.

 

[yeahright]

I bought a Synology DS918+ about half a year ago after I ran into similar problems: No more space on the internal hard drives to download photos from the memory card. I equipped it with two Seagate Ironwolf Pro 8 TB hard drives and have them in two bays of the NAS in a RAID 1 configuration. I have additional two 8 TB external hard drives on which I make regular backups and then store the disks off-site in different locations, so that at no time there are all backups physically located in the same place. Unforturnately, due to a miserable internet connection, cloud backup is not yet a real option. The NAS is in a Gigabit Ethernet and when I process photos using a wired connection the access speed is sufficient. Not instantaneous, but ok. Wireless access is too slow, but that is due to my old WiFi router and not due to the NAS. At first I thought that the amount of storage would be sufficient for years to come. But as it happens, I got a new EOS 5D IV shortly before, and its RAW files between 30 and 50 MB a piece are filling up the drives waaay faster than originally projected. I am also taking many more pictures on many more occasions than before, so I will soon have to think of either getting even larger drives to be put into the other two bays, or change something about the volume of my photography (quality over quantity perhaps).

In any case, I am very happy with the DS918+. We are two people in the household accessing and processing photos using multiple laptops and a desktop PC, and since the photos are stored centrally in the NAS and not locally in the desktop PC anymore, working on them is much easier than before. I only wish Lightroom would allow to store and share catalogs on NAS drives, then we could actually share not only the photos but also the processing on photos.

We perform backups using the supplied Synology HyperBackup, which is really easy to use. As, by the way, I found the whole setup of the NAS to be. It's not for experts only, but can be handled by the average computer literate person. But, if desired, the functionality of the Synology applications is quite advanced.

So I would recommend this setup, even if it's not exactly cheap.

 

[Ladislav]

My experience of NAS is mixed, if I only had one computer I'd definitely swap it all out for a similar case that was a DAS (I have a four drive QNAP TS-453A), it is just so much simpler.

Don't get me wrong, as a NAS the QNAP is amazing, but configuration system wide is far from simple and it takes a lot of time to figure out what setup is best personally given the extreme array of options, and, whatever anybody else might say, Ethernet is slower to work with than DAS especially if you even think of doing video or big PS files.

To be honest, I could probably use it as DAS but since my current PC has only USB 2.0, I don't think I would like it.

I in theory have 3 computers and an iPad Pro but I would need to find a reason why anything else apart from my main computer needs to access the NAS.

 

[LDS]

To be honest, I could probably use it as DAS but since my current PC has only USB 2.0, I don't think I would like it.

I in theory have 3 computers and an iPad Pro but I would need to find a reason why anything else apart from my main computer needs to access the NAS.

If you access disks (or better, a disk partition) only from a single PC, you could get better performance over a network using iSCSI instead of a network sharing protocol (SMB, NFS, etc.), but unluckily the setup is far from simple (and I'd use it only over a wired connection).

 

[yeahright]

My experience of NAS is mixed, if I only had one computer I'd definitely swap it all out for a similar case that was a DAS (I have a four drive QNAP TS-453A), it is just so much simpler.

Don't get me wrong, as a NAS the QNAP is amazing, but configuration system wide is far from simple and it takes a lot of time to figure out what setup is best personally given the extreme array of options, and, whatever anybody else might say, Ethernet is slower to work with than DAS especially if you even think of doing video or big PS files.

To be honest, I could probably use it as DAS but since my current PC has only USB 2.0, I don't think I would like it.

I in theory have 3 computers and an iPad Pro but I would need to find a reason why anything else apart from my main computer needs to access the NAS.

For me, some of the reasons for which I really like the NAS are:
* All data stored in one place, no more files distributed over the different computers. Everything is stored on the NAS and on the NAS only. No more looking for files on the different devices, and working on the files from whichever device I want. Not only photos of course, but all sorts of documents.
* Easy backup
* Scanner directly scans to the NAS
* Looking at photos on the TV
* Easily configurable access to the files from outside the home network with only a few necessary configurations

I would guess that this applies to most people that own more than one device, except if they only use their laptop computers to browse the internet. But even then, whenever I download anything from the internet - applications, images, videos - I would store it on the NAS

 

[ethanz]

I have a Netgear Readynas 314 with 6TB of real storage in Raid 1. Part of it is used for my time machine backup (Mac). The rest I use for storage of my pictures I can't keep on my laptop. It works well. Anything I am working on/processing I move to my laptop.

 

[CSD]

I expect NAS storage to solve my problem with space and provide me very reliable automatic backup mechanism. I would also expect it to be significantly faster than just single disk but also significantly more expensive. I don't really care much about all the video transcoding and server features modern NAS storages provide. I think my requirements are:

• 4 bay
• 1Gb Ethernet (1 have 1Gb network at home) - 2 ports are better
• Support for M.2 SSD module - I will add it in the future as cache
• Not sure how performant it should be but most of devices in this category are 4 core and can have up to 8GB RAM
• It should have USB 3.0
• It should work with both Windows and Mac

It looks like best match are Synology DS918+ and QNAP TS-423Be although they seem to be bit overkill. They support many more features I don't need.

I would configure it with 4x4TB or 4x6TB WD Red or Seagate IronWolf drives. Even 16TB (about 8TB real storage) should cover me for years.

It is also good to point out, that this is not my business. I'm just enthusiasts and this is my hobby. I never made a penny by photography yet.

What are your experiences with NAS storage and accessing RAW photos from Lightroom over network?

Before someone asks why just not to use use cloud storage?

• I'm using cloud storage as backup for processed photos which are usually about 10-20% of what I shot.
• I would still want local copy.
• I have asymmetric Internet connection - fast downloads, slow uploads. Trying to upload 80GB would take ages and would be best way to end up with fair use policy clause in the contract.

SSD cache isn't needed for most SMB case uses, it's only really useful for when you're in a large sharing environment and/or require minimal latency. I use a pair of Synology NAS boxes mirrored at different sites.

It should be noted that NAS isn't a backup in itself, it can form part of your back up plan. I'd recommend at least mirroring to another computer/drive or consider an alternative off-site storage such as another NAS, or better still tape or cloud both of which can get expensive.

I use my NAS on a managed switch allowing me to bond two of the RJ45 connections to increase throughput. I bond the connections on all my workstations, which I have a primary/back up (Z820 and a Z620) on the switch. Jumbo packets aren't worth it unless you've got a 10Gb/e or fibre connection and all traffic on the LAN is JP enabled. In any case I seriously recommend factoring in a decent managed switch to the cost of the NAS it'll pay dividends in throughput especially with multi-device LANs and future proofing.

 

[Frodo]

Ladislav, I was in a similar position to you except my computer was only 8 years old.
I am in the process of getting a new computer - it gets delivered today! This has been prompted through the purchase of a 5DsR, but I was well overdue for a computer upgrade. It took me 11 and a half minutes to export 59 images from LR!
I considered a range of options for storage and for backup, including NAS and DAS. I concluded quickly that NAS has few benefits for a single user, although its probably great for Yeahright where two people access one drive.
I will have a 500GB Samsung NVMe M.2 SSD as my boot drive. It also holds programmes and my LR catalog and will be used for my working files on current projects. When downloading, files are also copied to an internal Seagate 4TB Enterprise HDD. I will add further 4TB drives as storage needs increase - I've bought a bunch of interesting stuff (read cameras and flashes), hence not getting the extra storage now.
I keep backups on two external hard drives, with one off site (monthly backups). Working files will be removed from the SSD periodically.
I considered a second internal HDD (I have 4 SATA 3 slots and 2 M.2) in RAID 1 (mirroring), but this is not a backup and there are issues of errors being mirrored on both drives. My biggest risk is accidentally deleting files and a problem with the initial copying of files, so I am covered with copying simultaneously to the SSD and HDD.
If I were you, I'd invest in a new computer and save money on your file storage system I can post the specs of my new computer - It cost me $2100 (NZD - about $1500 in USD).

 

[helpful]

I've tried plenty of fancy solutions from A-Z from open source to Synology and have had very bad experiences failures and rebuilds etc. Finally out of desperation I just tried a DAS rather than a NAS and used software RAID, plus backed up everything to individual separate drives, and also do a third remote physical copy.

Never had a single glitch or problem since then.

 

[Zeidora]

I've had NAS drives some 10 years ago, but have switched to LaCie RAID1/RAID10 arrays. I have had a NAS controller fail on me, and then you are pretty dead in the water. Unless you need the network aspect, there is no upside of a NAS over regular external drives.

More then 2 drives are only necessary if you want total storage that exceeds available single drive versions. For photo-editing, transfer speeds even for 5DsR files are plenty via USB3. Multiple drives and higher speed come into play with video editing. Could you add a USB3 card to your old computer? When I batch convert RAW files in DxO from RAID1 via thunderbolt (Mac), the computer processor (6 core, 12 threads) is the limit, not transfer speed.

In theory, you could get better speed with 10GB ethernet, but your 10 year old computer can certainly not handle it. Currently, 10GB networks are quite tricky, as every component has to be 10GB rated, and that gets very pricey.

As others have said, redundant storage is not the same as back-up strategy.

 

[pwp]

There are some great NAS solutions available, I use a 5 bay Synology with Hitachi HDD's which has been 100% stable since 2012. What I do like most about Synology is its ease of use, its simplicity and almost Mac OS like GUI.

I'll be needing to expand capacity within the next 12 months, and for me another 5 bay Synology is a given.

OP, whatever you do don't be tempted by DROBO. I'm not the only one to have had an appalling experience with them. To their credit, DROBO have driven a highly effective, convincing marketing strategy. Sadly the promise is not matched by reality. Glacial transfer speeds that bear little resemblance to the specs, glitches and bugs galore are frequently reported. Support is terrible. Only with the reluctant backing of my local retailer, I actually managed a 100% refund on my DROBO. Just saying...

Also, getting ten years out of a PC is a remarkable achievement. But there is little value to you in trying to set any records for a long life PC. If the budget is there, really do consider updating your hardware to current spec. My experience has been to expect 3-5 years of top performance from a specced up new PC. Annoying little bugs and random weird stuff always happens. RAM can go bad, any of the myriad of connections can become unreliable, the board can deteriorate with impossible to diagnose component breakdowns, power supply instability, OS needing a full fresh install and so on. Even the best brains (not me) find diagnosis next to impossible. Macs seem to last longer, maybe because component compatibility is more achievable with their closed ecosystem. Not really sure why...

-pw

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I have a Qnap 6 drive and a Qnap 4 drive NAS, but I don't use them as primary storage drives,a 1gb ethernet is too slow for me, a internal drive is better. I use the NAS to copy my files from my two internal drives, a 1TB SSD and a 4TB Data hard drive. Large hard drives are now cheap, I bought a 8TB WD easy store drive for $170, its a external drive, but you can remove it from its case and put it into a PC. The 6 Drive NAS is for backing up the 4 Drive NAS.

 

[Ladislav]

Thank you all, you gave me a lot to think about:

• Experience with NAS is mixed - obviously, that is expected result when you ask broader range of people
• NAS may be slower than I think but DAS is still not an option unless I replace the computer
• My initial requirements may be too high, maybe Synology DS418 would do just well enough for what I need.
• I may also need a managed switch - why, what configuration will I need to do on the switch?
• Maybe I should just go for a new computer

As for backup vs storage - I got this. For me the biggest threat at the moment is HW failure considering the age of my computer and my drives. I'm backing up processed stuff to the cloud (I'm far behind with processing) but based on your advice I will buy another external drive and do backup of everything on monthly basis and keep the drive in the office.

 

[Mikehit]

If speed is your problem for DAS, you can buy PCIe cards that will add USB3 to a USB2 computer without having to upgrade your motherboard.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inateck-KTU3FR-5O2I-expansion-ports-black/dp/B00FPIMJEW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530615999&sr=8-1&keywords=Inateck+KTU3FR-5O2I+-+USB+3.0+expansion+card+%285+ports%29%2C+black+and+red%23

I noticed a definite increase in speed with that.

Also, will a USB-3 hub work? I am a bit of a techno-numpty but I understand that these allow 2 devices to communicate directly so if you have USB 3 card reader and USB3 drive, they talk while shortcutting some of the limitations in the computer (but I may be wrong)

 

[ethanz]

Also, will a USB-3 hub work? I am a bit of a techno-numpty but I understand that these allow 2 devices to communicate directly so if you have USB 3 card reader and USB3 drive, they talk while shortcutting some of the limitations in the computer (but I may be wrong)

USB 3 (as with all connections) has a finite bandwidth. So even with a USB 3 hub, you are still limited to fitting all that through one USB 3 connection. With just a card reader and external drive you will still get great speeds with USB 3.

 

[Mikehit]

Also, will a USB-3 hub work? I am a bit of a techno-numpty but I understand that these allow 2 devices to communicate directly so if you have USB 3 card reader and USB3 drive, they talk while shortcutting some of the limitations in the computer (but I may be wrong)

USB 3 (as with all connections) has a finite bandwidth. So even with a USB 3 hub, you are still limited to fitting all that through one USB 3 connection. With just a card reader and external drive you will still get great speeds with USB 3.

I know. But USB3 is still quicker than USB2 which was my point. And much quicker if my experience with the PCIe card is anything to go by.

 

[jolyonralph]

I know many people have had bad experiences with them, but I still like the Drobo NAS systems. In fact, I currently have 5 of them (2 Drobo FS, a Drobo 5N, a 5D and a brand new 5D3)

In several years of use I have never had any failure that has lost data. I had one device entirely stop working, and I was able to move the disk pack to another Drobo Unit and that worked perfectly first time.

I've had issues with corruption when power is lost, but this has always been recoverable with tools.

I did have to replace a dead fan in one of the older Drobos after it died, but it uses standard cheap PC case fans so that was easy.

I've had to talk to Drobo a few times, but I've always had things resolved.

The thing that's good about Drobo is that you don't have to mix and match the same types of drives. You throw in any* old SATA drive and you can mix them all together. You can replace lower capacity drives with higher capacity drives, one at a time, to increase the capacity of your RAID dynamically without even needing to stop using the device while it rebuilds.


* Certain 8TB+ drives use a system called "shingled" recording which isn't compatible with Drobo (and probably not reliably with other NAS systems. These drives die in a matter of days in a Drobo. So avoid any drives listed as SMR or Shingled. Also avoid any Seagate drive 8TB or higher except if it specifically says it is a PMR device (Barracuda *PRO* only I believe) because those are SMR without disclosing it, as I found out after killing two of them.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I use a windows pc, and am always fighting Microsoft upgrades which alternately loose the ability to see a NAS or other pc's using Windows explorer, so I have to specifically assign a drive letter to the folder on the NAS that I want to use.
I've given up fooling with it, I get it working and 3 months later, they break it again.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

There is no particular reason that I'm aware of to want a managed switch. I have a HP 24 port managed switch and a Cisco 24 port Managed switch as a backup, but I leave them at factory defaults, it just happens that they had other features I wanted.