Negative copying, FD Bellows and kit. Need help from those familiar with this gear please.

Valvebounce

EOS R5
CR Pro
Apr 3, 2013
4,515
420
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Isle of Wight
Hi Folks.
I am about to start copying a load of my negatives, I have the Canon FD copier setup
537476F6-43D0-43F7-A504-EB8F860477EB.jpeg


but not the roll film stage,

BBD8356E-2A66-49A4-B8F3-45F9242A86F3.jpeg



Will the roll film stage help with commercially developed (cut) strips of 4 frames, I have done a couple of tests and found that the strips want to tilt, the support pins are unable to support the end frames.
Does anyone know, will the roll stage help with that or not?

Thanks in anticipation for any help.

Cheers, Graham.
 
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Valvebounce

EOS R5
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Apr 3, 2013
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Hi YuengLinger.
You are welcome, I still don’t know if the Roll Film Stage will support the negative strips, but I soon will as I ended up buying the one I found!
I was watching it on eBay and the seller made me an offer! Should arrive Wednesday.

Cheers, Graham.

Thank you for reminding me that I really need to digitize some 20 year old film from a time and place far, far away.
 
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Valvebounce

EOS R5
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Apr 3, 2013
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Hi Folks.
I can now answer my own question.
Yes the Roll Film Stage does support the short negative strip correctly, however it is still slightly awkward as you have to curl the ends round and then they fight back trying to push the strip through the holder.
All in all a worthwhile addition if you don’t have one with your copier.

Cheers, Graham.

Hi YuengLinger.
You are welcome, I still don’t know if the Roll Film Stage will support the negative strips, but I soon will as I ended up buying the one I found!
I was watching it on eBay and the seller made me an offer! Should arrive Wednesday.

Cheers, Graham.
 

Rocky

EOS R
Jul 30, 2010
986
72
Hi Folks.
I can now answer my own question.
Yes the Roll Film Stage does support the short negative strip correctly, however it is still slightly awkward as you have to curl the ends round and then they fight back trying to push the strip through the holder.
All in all a worthwhile addition if you don’t have one with your copier.

Cheers, Graham.
If your goal is to copy and digitize your negetives, you might be better off spend $250 and get an Epson V600 photo scanner. I have one and I highly recommend it. It wil do negetives (up to 6cmX6cm), 35mm slides and photo ( up t0 8 1/2 " X 11 1/2 ")
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,475
3,856
Hi Graham,

I’m sorry I missed this thread as I have the exact setup and could have told you, but glad you found out anyway. I recently picked up a mint in box macro stage for it all too. They sure did make stuff properly back in the FD days!
 

Valvebounce

EOS R5
CR Pro
Apr 3, 2013
4,515
420
53
Isle of Wight
Hi PBD.
No worries, I was already deep in to learning the hard way, first thing I discovered is that a 1D series won’t fit, next I discovered that doing the math for the lens for a crop camera doesn’t work, then that taking 4 or 6 or 9 shots of each slide or negative with a crop camera is reeaaallll time consuming! Solved that with a real cheap (legitimate from a dealer boxed etc) 5DII with only 9000 shutter count in absolute mint condition, I have added another 4000 in a couple of months just shooting slides! :ROFLMAO:
Then I learned just how hard it is to get the exposure correct on a negative! When the positive is over exposed, you have to turn the flash power up! o_Oo_Oo_O Obvious when you work it out, but I spent waaay too long going the wrong way! :rolleyes::rolleyes:
I love this setup, but as I mentioned in another thread, dad took way too many “ISO 100 sunny day 250th @ f5.6 rule of thumb“ (I remember him telling me something but don’t remember the numbers!) type shots! Fortunately he did use a light meter for many / most of them, then he got the AE1 P with onboard metering!
I am having to adjust almost every shot individually in pp.
I was thinking of a macro stage if I find one for a reasonable price, and you are not wrong, what a lovely piece of kit!

Cheers, Graham.

Hi Graham,

I’m sorry I missed this thread as I have the exact setup and could have told you, but glad you found out anyway. I recently picked up a mint in box macro stage for it all too. They sure did make stuff properly back in the FD days!
 

Valvebounce

EOS R5
CR Pro
Apr 3, 2013
4,515
420
53
Isle of Wight
Hi Rocky.
Thanks for the advice, I have had scanners with slide / negative capability in the past. I never got on well with them and to cap it all the drivers would always go out of date rendering the scanner obsolete, this method uses things which I’m going to have other uses for, and will never be made obsolete by software! :ROFLMAO:

Cheers, Graham.

If your goal is to copy and digitize your negetives, you might be better off spend $250 and get an Epson V600 photo scanner. I have one and I highly recommend it. It wil do negetives (up to 6cmX6cm), 35mm slides and photo ( up t0 8 1/2 " X 11 1/2 ")
 

Rocky

EOS R
Jul 30, 2010
986
72
Hi Rocky.
Thanks for the advice, I have had scanners with slide / negative capability in the past. I never got on well with them and to cap it all the drivers would always go out of date rendering the scanner obsolete, this method uses things which I’m going to have other uses for, and will never be made obsolete by software! :ROFLMAO:

Cheers, Graham.
You can down load the software from Epson for the V600 ( 10 years old product??) that works perfect with windows 10. That is exactly what I have done. I got my V600 early this year. It have been ding an excellent Job automatically without my intervention. May be you should log onto the website of your scanner and see if there is any update for your scanner. If I remember it right, windows 10 can actually run legacy old software automatically. I have once run a 20 year old software out of my windows 10 system
 
Last edited:

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
1,847
654
Davidson, NC
Hi Rocky.
Thanks for the advice, I have had scanners with slide / negative capability in the past. I never got on well with them and to cap it all the drivers would always go out of date rendering the scanner obsolete, this method uses things which I’m going to have other uses for, and will never be made obsolete by software! :ROFLMAO:

Cheers, Graham.

VueScan works with lots and lots of old scanners and supports many more options than you could ever get with the original software. It is updated frequently for free if you get the pro license. I have an old Minolta Dimage Dual Scan III for 35mm slides and negatives. I've scanned in a lot of slides this year, and did a photo book of pictures from my trip 20 years ago. I have some negatives I want to scan as my next scanning project, but I have mislaid the strip film carrier. It is around here somewhere, because I saw it when I was getting the slide carrier out. I put it somewhere out of my way.

For grins I have tried using my 100mm macro to shoot slides, using the iPad as a light box. Results weren't bad, but it was more trouble than using the scanner.

The biggest problem with scanning slides I think is that it is too easy to get too much contrast.
 

Rocky

EOS R
Jul 30, 2010
986
72
The biggest problem with scanning slides I think is that it is too easy to get too much contrast.
I do not have excess contrast either with slide, negative or photo with the Epson V600. The real problem of scanning slide and negative is how to keep the original free of dust. The attached picture is from a slide that is over 30 years old.
lion.jpg
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,475
3,856
Hi PBD.
No worries, I was already deep in to learning the hard way, first thing I discovered is that a 1D series won’t fit, next I discovered that doing the math for the lens for a crop camera doesn’t work, then that taking 4 or 6 or 9 shots of each slide or negative with a crop camera is reeaaallll time consuming! Solved that with a real cheap (legitimate from a dealer boxed etc) 5DII with only 9000 shutter count in absolute mint condition, I have added another 4000 in a couple of months just shooting slides! :ROFLMAO:
Then I learned just how hard it is to get the exposure correct on a negative! When the positive is over exposed, you have to turn the flash power up! o_Oo_Oo_O Obvious when you work it out, but I spent waaay too long going the wrong way! :rolleyes::rolleyes:
I love this setup, but as I mentioned in another thread, dad took way too many “ISO 100 sunny day 250th @ f5.6 rule of thumb“ (I remember him telling me something but don’t remember the numbers!) type shots! Fortunately he did use a light meter for many / most of them, then he got the AE1 P with onboard metering!
I am having to adjust almost every shot individually in pp.
I was thinking of a macro stage if I find one for a reasonable price, and you are not wrong, what a lovely piece of kit!

Cheers, Graham.
I'm so sorry because I could definitely have saved you some of that learning curve! I knew the 1 series bodies don't fit, and that the added extension of the FD-EOS adapter limits the focus range, those are a couple of the reasons I am waiting for an R5 to do mine and the thousands of family ones I have committed to doing.... But also, as you point out, negative film has close to the DR of the digital sensors so if you get the exposure off slightly you can have issues, obviously no problem when using slide film as the DR is much smaller. I know DR is a touchy subject but I am hoping the R5 will give me a bit more latitude than the zero latitude the 1Ds III gave in testing.

I was really lucky with the Macro Stage, I found a new old stock copy in the box for $50 in an online camera store. I was keen to get one because a lot of the old family slides I have to copy have notations on them and I was keen to get the entire slide with notations which is why I am borderline magnification with the EOS setup and will need to use the RF to get less magnification.

1608446871290.jpeg



Like you I did try going the scanner route, I had a Pacific Image scanner years ago but the truth was it was so much hassle and the software never played nicely even when I went to third party drivers.

For those working with dust from scans a little known Photoshop filter, dust & scratches, is a scaning game changer. Here it is in the menu and a link to one of my favorite YouTube Photoshop educators on the filter.

1608447354792.png


 
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Valvebounce

EOS R5
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Apr 3, 2013
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Hi PBD.
Don’t fret it, you are sharing knowledge voluntarily, I have actually kind of enjoyed the learning curve. I have bracketed a lot of the exposures over 3 or 4 stops to get the best out of them, sometimes picking one shot, others blending a couple or 3 using hdr software.
That stage looks mint, I can’t even see one for sale in the UK at the moment! Not that I’m desperate to spend more money right at this time!:ROFLMAO:
Does the stage have any limitations that spring to mind, would I be just as well sorted to use the tripod to position the rack vertically over a subject, bearing in mind at the moment I’m probably not needing to backlight things (yet)! :rolleyes:
Just a thought, I have a shot of a factory fire close to my parents home, I tried to blend a shot to get the best detail from the flames and shadows, all I got was a blown out mess in hdr. I guess I need to go low dynamic range or something, any thoughts on getting what I’m trying to achieve please?
Thanks for sharing the tip on the dust and scratches filter, but I’m not using lightroom / photoshop, I do have Affinity Photo so will have a look see if that has a similar filter, I found a batch of shots with a hair on, once I noticed it a quick puff of air and it was gone from the diffuser! :mad:

Cheers, Graham.

I'm so sorry because I could definitely have saved you some of that learning curve! I knew the 1 series bodies don't fit, and that the added extension of the FD-EOS adapter limits the focus range, those are a couple of the reasons I am waiting for an R5 to do mine and the thousands of family ones I have committed to doing.... But also, as you point out, negative film has close to the DR of the digital sensors so if you get the exposure off slightly you can have issues, obviously no problem when using slide film as the DR is much smaller. I know DR is a touchy subject but I am hoping the R5 will give me a bit more latitude than the zero latitude the 1Ds III gave in testing.

I was really lucky with the Macro Stage, I found a new old stock copy in the box for $50 in an online camera store. I was keen to get one because a lot of the old family slides I have to copy have notations on them and I was keen to get the entire slide with notations which is why I am borderline magnification with the EOS setup and will need to use the RF to get less magnification.

View attachment 194656


Like you I did try going the scanner route, I had a Pacific Image scanner years ago but the truth was it was so much hassle and the software never played nicely even when I went to third party drivers.

For those working with dust from scans a little known Photoshop filter, dust & scratches, is a scaning game changer. Here it is in the menu and a link to one of my favorite YouTube Photoshop educators on the filter.

View attachment 194657

 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,475
3,856
Hi PBD.
Don’t fret it, you are sharing knowledge voluntarily, I have actually kind of enjoyed the learning curve. I have bracketed a lot of the exposures over 3 or 4 stops to get the best out of them, sometimes picking one shot, others blending a couple or 3 using hdr software.
That stage looks mint, I can’t even see one for sale in the UK at the moment! Not that I’m desperate to spend more money right at this time!:ROFLMAO:
Does the stage have any limitations that spring to mind, would I be just as well sorted to use the tripod to position the rack vertically over a subject, bearing in mind at the moment I’m probably not needing to backlight things (yet)! :rolleyes:
Just a thought, I have a shot of a factory fire close to my parents home, I tried to blend a shot to get the best detail from the flames and shadows, all I got was a blown out mess in hdr. I guess I need to go low dynamic range or something, any thoughts on getting what I’m trying to achieve please?
Thanks for sharing the tip on the dust and scratches filter, but I’m not using lightroom / photoshop, I do have Affinity Photo so will have a look see if that has a similar filter, I found a batch of shots with a hair on, once I noticed it a quick puff of air and it was gone from the diffuser! :mad:

Cheers, Graham.
The stage is pretty limited and really is designed for the two dedicated Canon macro lenses, the 20mm and the 35mm. http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/fdlenses/fdmacro/2035macro.htm
I used to have the 35mm but sold it a few years ago.

But the stage has a pretty small footprint so it really doesn't work well as a stand in copy stand, and a tripod whilst utilizing the bellows mount rail is the most effective way of achieving the magnification and focus needed for multiple tasks.

As for difficult negatives with detail across the DR that get too close to the cameras DR, I'd try bracketed shots and luminosity masks as I find them far more realistic looking than HDR even though technically they are very similar.

If you wanted to send me a link to two RAW files with the normal and highlight exposures I'll do a blend for you to see what results I could get for you to compare.
 
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Valvebounce

EOS R5
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Hi PBD.
Thank you for the offer, it is very kind of you. I did get a result for the fire that I find acceptable and I’m trying to just move through the masses of shots.
As for the masks, I have tried in ACDsee and Affinity Photo, I just don’t seem to be able to grasp it, I’ve watched the tutorials for both and they both seem comparable, but I always seem to end up in a mess! o_O o_O It might be the old dog new tricks thing!

Thank you for the info on the macro stage, perhaps I will give that a miss for now, it seems like the tripod positioning is the way to go. If one comes up cheap I might take a punt!

Cheers, Graham.

The stage is pretty limited and really is designed for the two dedicated Canon macro lenses, the 20mm and the 35mm. http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/fdlenses/fdmacro/2035macro.htm
I used to have the 35mm but sold it a few years ago.

But the stage has a pretty small footprint so it really doesn't work well as a stand in copy stand and a tripod whilst utilizing the bellows mount rail is the most effective way of achieving the magnification and focus needed for multiple tasks.

As for difficult negatives with detail across the DR that get too close to the cameras DR, I'd try bracketed shots and luminosity masks as I find them far more realistic looking than HDR even though technically they are very similar.

If you wanted to send me a link to two RAW files with the normal and highlight exposures I'll do a blend for you to see what results I could get for you to compare.
 
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