now this is what Canon should have started ten years ago

[martti]

My Little Sony arrived by DHL. It is bigger than I thought with the Zeiss 16-70 f/4 zoom.
I am at work so I only managed to put the battery in and start charging.
The first impression is that of a quality instrument. Setting up the date and the place and playing around in the menus was a straightforward thing. It seems that Sony is learning simplicity.
The camera responds very fast.
I think this will be a rewarding relationship.

 

[martti]

Between rain showers. Zeiss 16-70 at "24mm" (16mm) f/11. RAW cropped and profile corrected LR5.

 

[Tinky]

if you use a face tracking feature for your autofocus you probably are not skilled enough to be using a $7k camera in the first place.

I remember when Canon said that autofocus had no interest at all as "their" photographers would never rely on such a feature. After Minolta started selling more SLRs than Nikon and Canon combined Canon somehow changed their mind...

Personally, I would love such a feature on my next DSLR.

Video is contiguous. In stills you talk about a keeper rate. In video, every frame needs to be a keeper. AF is great at getting things that should be in focus, in focus. Sometimes for creative reasons, the dop might want something else in focus.

when you bring in wide aperture lenses and large sensors your af system has a lot of tracking to do, ignoring foreground and background distortions.

A 7k camera is a serious tool, for people who want and are capable of manual control, I think that, rather than giving hobbyists a help, is the gripe. At least from me.

 

[NancyP]

Optical viewfinders and the SLR form are still ergonomic for hand-held action photography.

 

[martti]

The Metabones adapter arrived but it was already too dark to go outside to test it.
What I noticed just by playing around is that you do not get anything that you could call 'autofocus'.
The focus goes wildly back and forth and finally stops somewhere where everything is blurred.
This I tested with three different Canon lenses.

The interesting thing is using these lenses with manual focus indicator. You can actually set the peak focus exactly where you want it. The 100mm f/2 becomes a 150mm f/2 which is Very Nice for portraiture.
I think I'll keep this...

 

[martti]

Not exactly pocketable but the image quality is OK.
Yeah, I hear you: "what's the point?"

 

[zim]

Is that 'just' OK or 'great' OK?

 

[martti]

Quite amazing from an APS-c sensor, I have to admit. With the focus verification you can put the sharp point exactly where you want it which is fascinating. You are focusing with the actual sensor without any mirrors or calculations. Very cool if you want to isolate a non-moving subject. You get the eyelashes if that's what you are after.

In fact, this is what I would have wanted when the need of multifocal eyeglasses started to interfere with taking pictures and I could not really tell what was in focus through the viewfinder. They came up with the autofocus which obviously was the right move when you look at its current status. But this is not bad, not bad at all.

 

[mrsfotografie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYXwCGWb7Yg&spfreload=10

This BH photo/video is about the Sony a6000.
It is scary.
Sony is going to eat up the Canonists who have not been brainwashed as such as yet.
When I was talking about the UI (user interface) this is what I meant.
Sony is almost there but not quite yet. Close enough, though. I will shoot with the EF lenses with an adapter.
AF, AE with adapters...or...maybe I just get rid of the heavy glass.

An eye-opening video.

The a6000 is a very good camera and it is a LOT better to use than the NEX-6 that I owned previously, but the a6000 is still not quite as good to use as a Canon DSLR. Having said that, the NEX-6 had already replaced my old little 400D for those times when I wanted to travel light and still bring a good camera. The a6000 reaffirmed that decision tenfold. But still, my FF Canons deliver where it counts.

 

[martti]

A casual test with the EF 20mm f/2.8 + Metabones adapter fails: Camera either takes a picture or crashes. Either there is an f-stop indicator or not. Clearly, no reason to try to take pictures with this setup.
The 40mm pancake does not focus, of course not but it does not crash the camera either. Why should you want to lug around a 60mm-equivalent f/2.8 which does not autofocus and which is not especially compact either? No particular reason in my mind. Then I tried the 50mm f/1.4 which has a hopelessly shallow DOF. It communicates OK with the a6000 but then again, why should you ever use a combination like this?
Clearly, the 16-70mm f/4 Zeiss seems enormously agile and useful after these three attempts.

 

[mrsfotografie]

A casual test with the EF 20mm f/2.8 + Metabones adapter fails: Camera either takes a picture or crashes. Either there is an f-stop indicator or not. Clearly, no reason to try to take pictures with this setup.
The 40mm pancake does not focus, of course not but it does not crash the camera either. Why should you want to lug around a 60mm-equivalent f/2.8 which does not autofocus and which is not especially compact either? No particular reason in my mind. Then I tried the 50mm f/1.4 which has a hopelessly shallow DOF. It communicates OK with the a6000 but then again, why should you ever use a combination like this?
Clearly, the 16-70mm f/4 Zeiss seems enormously agile and useful after these three attempts.

I prefer to use my old FD/FL lenses, either with a Metabones optical adapter or with a plain adapter, and then use focus peaking. Disadvantage= no AF. Advantages however: cheap, good and mostly relatively small lenses (re-use old stuff), no compatibility issues. And when I need AF I will most definitely use native e-mount lenses as listed in my signature. (FWIW the 16-70 Zeiss is very much like the 24-105 Canon) I'm thinking about getting the 10-18 too, (and sell the 12mm Samyang) but not so sure because there's more glass I'd like for my EF system. Choices, choices....

 

[martti]

Please, mrsfotografie, tell me why are you not happy with the Rokinon 12 mm f/2.0?
It is supposed to be of very high optical quality and reasonably priced. In fact, I though I might actually get one.
As you said, there is so much more tempting stuff from Canon for the EF that you'd really have to be a Sony fanatic to buy a Zeiss Touit or whatever for 1000 dollars when you can get a 16-35 f/4 at that price and it is quand meme something else, totally. Value is something where Sony is seriously lagging behind.

 

[zim]

Quite amazing from an APS-c sensor, I have to admit. With the focus verification you can put the sharp point exactly where you want it which is fascinating. You are focusing with the actual sensor without any mirrors or calculations. Very cool if you want to isolate a non-moving subject. You get the eyelashes if that's what you are after.

In fact, this is what I would have wanted when the need of multifocal eyeglasses started to interfere with taking pictures and I could not really tell what was in focus through the viewfinder. They came up with the autofocus which obviously was the right move when you look at its current status. But this is not bad, not bad at all.

Interesting, I really do like this ability. I've never used ML but of course I'd love to use this through the viewfinder. It's funny with all the talk in another thread about face recognition I'd really much prefer to be able to do this through an optical viewfinder with some sort of HUD ability that switches off when not in use.

Regards

 

[mrsfotografie]

Please, mrsfotografie, tell me why are you not happy with the Rokinon 12 mm f/2.0?
It is supposed to be of very high optical quality and reasonably priced. In fact, I though I might actually get one.
As you said, there is so much more tempting stuff from Canon for the EF that you'd really have to be a Sony fanatic to buy a Zeiss Touit or whatever for 1000 dollars when you can get a 16-35 f/4 at that price and it is quand meme something else, totally. Value is something where Sony is seriously lagging behind.

martti, the 12mm is a very good optic and lives up to its reputation, there's some CA but that's easily corrected. Reason for selling it would be that it is a pain to correctly focus manually, even with focus peaking enabled and especially when stopped down. The focus peaking does not clearly enough identify what is in focus and what is not, when dealing with such a short focal length. This is not really a problem in itself because you can check the result on the screen or in the viewfinder, but it means that shooting with this lens is cumbersome if you want to shoot fast and move on. I don't see myself using this lens if I would have the zoom because the times when I need a fast aperture in such a wide angle lens are fairly limited (and for low light use I'd be shooting with my 5DMkIII anyway).

And yes I totally agree the Sony lenses are overpriced. I have the 16-70mm but comparing it to my 24-105L (size, weathersealing), the price just isn't right. The 10-18 is also a pricey piece of glass. And as for those Touit's, something like that deserves a full frame sensor.

 

[1800daniel]

Please, mrsfotografie, tell me why are you not happy with the Rokinon 12 mm f/2.0?
It is supposed to be of very high optical quality and reasonably priced. In fact, I though I might actually get one.
As you said, there is so much more tempting stuff from Canon for the EF that you'd really have to be a Sony fanatic to buy a Zeiss Touit or whatever for 1000 dollars when you can get a 16-35 f/4 at that price and it is quand meme something else, totally. Value is something where Sony is seriously lagging behind.

My experience with the Rokinon 12mm f/2 on the a6000 is very good. It has some CA but it's about what I expect from such a wide lens. Color is great.
It's very light weight and the focus ring is stiff but I have lots of practice with MF so it's not a problem for me.
Focus peaking is ok but I prefer to use focus magnification and I can nail the focus every time, easily.
The resolution is very good and works nicely with the high resolution sensor to produce great detail.
I gave my Canon gear away because I was so impressed with the results from the Sony system.


I'll upload some samples:
Note that the images were resized during upload, so some quality may be lost.
I always shoot in the "Neutral" profile, no HDR or heavy processing/manipulation.

This first one has no CA correction, -7 highlights, +11 shadows, +9 clarity, +15 saturation in Lightroom

(ISO 100; 1/50sec; f/5.6)

(ISO 400; 1/30sec; f/4ish)

(ISO 3200; 30sec; f/4ish)

 

[martti]

Thank you for your views and 1800Daniel, your pictures.
So basically the Rokinon/Samyong does exactly what it is supposed to do.
It is probably not the 'social event'-lens but rather the painfully sharp desert objective.
Looks good. At about 320 dollars...reasonable.

 

[Tinky]

Thank you Daniel for posting these, it's a lens I'm considering buying.

I'm between this in the EF-m mount or the 16mm f2.0 in the EF mount.

I already have the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 but the extra stop interests me, as does the quality wide open.
If i get the 12mm I'll probably dedicated one of my EOS M's to timelapse by installing ML.

 

[1800daniel]

Thank you Daniel for posting these, it's a lens I'm considering buying.

I'm between this in the EF-m mount or the 16mm f2.0 in the EF mount.

I already have the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 but the extra stop interests me, as does the quality wide open.
If i get the 12mm I'll probably dedicated one of my EOS M's to timelapse by installing ML.

It is a lens worth considering.
The wide aperture is great and I am never hesitant to use it at f/2 when I want to.
I also forgot to mention that the close-focus distance is great for interesting perspective. I've found it to be an extremely versatile lens and one that is a pleasure to use for a variety of subjects.

I think if you get one for your EOS M, you will want to take it everywhere.

 

[martti]

The best lense for the a6000 for taking pictures of a bottle of gas in the balcony is the Canon 85mm f/1.2 L

 

[mrsfotografie]

The best lense for the a6000 for taking pictures of a bottle of gas in the balcony is the Canon 85mm f/1.2 L

I'd like to challenge that but I don't have a bottle of gas in the balcony ;D

I might have given it a go with my Canon FL 135mm f/2.5, possibly using my metabones speed booster which turns it into a 144mm f/1.8...