Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

[Canon Rumors Guy]

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<p><strong>Lots of small things

</strong>The rumor mill has started to heat up as of late, most of the stuff seems pretty out there. However, stuff is appearing on other sites and in my inbox. I’m not sure how much of it is recycled speculation, but that does happen from time to time.</p>
<p>I’ll rate each bit of information on its own.</p>
<p><strong>3 new DSLR bodies this summer [CR1]

</strong>A mention of 3 new EOS bodies before Photokina in September. Only one of them being a full frame camera. It was suggested that an “entry level” full frame camera wouldn’t be announced and it would be an upper level EOS-1D style camera.</p>
<p><strong>7D Mark II to be full frame? [CR1]

</strong>I’ve seen this in my inbox a few times, and it has shown up on [<a href="http://www.canonwatch.com/rumor-eos-70d-will-be-top-of-aps-c-line-up-eos-7d-mark-ii-will-be-entry-level-full-frame/" target="_blank">cw</a>]. I’ve never really believed this one, I don’t think they can call it “7D Mark II” and change the sensor size from a marketing perspective. There are lots of EF-S lenses in the hands of 7D owners.</p>
<p>I have no doubt there will be a full frame camera under the 5D Mark III, but it can’t have all the prosumer features of the 7D to retain the moniker and stay around $2000. That just doesn’t seem like smart marketing. But hey, I’m not in marketing. :)</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 70D [CR1]

</strong><a href="http://www.canonwatch.com/rumor-eos-70d-will-be-top-of-aps-c-line-up-eos-7d-mark-ii-will-be-entry-level-full-frame/" target="_blank">More mentions</a> of the 70D moving up the ranks in the APS-C realm and becoming the flagship APS-C camera. We’ve heard similar things and think it’s entirely plausible.</p>
<p><strong>Adobe Photoshop CS6 Review

</strong>We have posted Ben Long’s review of the Adobe’s latest version of Photoshop, <strong><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/reviews/adobe-photoshop-cs6-review/" target="_blank">Read it here</a></strong>.</p>
<p><strong>Nikon D600

</strong>The speculated “entry level” full frame Nikon D600 looks to be quite real. <a href="http://nikonrumors.com/2012/06/14/first-leaked-nikon-d600-images.aspx/" target="_blank">Check the photo evidence here</a>.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[rsdofny]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Is this a major marketing screw-up for having only 5d3, 650D (June 19) available before Olympics?

 

[hammar]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I think it makes sense to move the 70D up to the level of 7D since the xxD series has been bumped up, with the xxxD series taking its place. I guess a 7D Mark II could become an entry level FF but as you said, it doesn't make much sense in a marketing perspective. With a D600 out, Canon will most definitely need a entry FF which is better than 5D2 (with a decent AF). Maybe "EOS 7D F".

 

[Gothmoth]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I have no doubt there will be a full frame camera under the 5D Mark III, but it can’t have all the prosumer features of the 7D to retain the moniker and stay around $2000. That just doesn’t seem like smart marketing. But hey, I’m not in marketing.

well that depends to some point on what nikon has to offer.

 

[pedro]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I think it makes sense to move the 70D up to the level of 7D since the xxD series has been bumped up, with the xxxD series taking its place. I guess a 7D Mark II could become an entry level FF but as you said, it doesn't make much sense in a marketing perspective. With a D600 out, Canon will most definitely need a entry FF which is better than 5D2 (with a decent AF). Maybe "EOS 7D F".

I would not call it 7D F. This might give way to the 6D as discussed earlier this year

 

[bp]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

IMHO, the only way a FF sensor on 7D2 would make sense, would be If they also gave it a crop sensor mode. Something to allow current APS-C shooters with lots of EF-S lenses continue to use their glass. This could also lead some of them to buy new EF lenses, to take advantage of the non-cropped full frame and get more out of their new camera, and sell more glass in the process. Could be a smart move. But then of course, the lack of a crop mode in other models would cause grumbling.

 

[Astro]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

IMHO, the only way a FF sensor on 7D2 would make sense, would be If they also gave it a crop sensor mode. Something to allow current APS-C shooters with lots of EF-S lenses continue to use their glass.

that is not possible with the EF mount and EF-S lenses.... or is it?

the cameras made for EF-S allowing lens elements to be closer to the sensor.
and if you put them on FF you would have troubles with the image circle of EF-S lenses.. not?
because they need to be farther away because of the larger mirror.

 

[ruuneos]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

If 7D2 is going to be full frame so yeah going to upgrade with those rumored specs!

IMHO, the only way a FF sensor on 7D2 would make sense, would be If they also gave it a crop sensor mode. Something to allow current APS-C shooters with lots of EF-S lenses continue to use their glass.

that is not possible with the EF mount and EF-S lenses.... or is it?

Well 7D to 1100D have already EF and EF-S mounts so why not?

 

[Astro]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

If 7D2 is going to be full frame so yeah going to upgrade with those rumored specs!

IMHO, the only way a FF sensor on 7D2 would make sense, would be If they also gave it a crop sensor mode. Something to allow current APS-C shooters with lots of EF-S lenses continue to use their glass.

that is not possible with the EF mount and EF-S lenses.... or is it?

Well 7D to 1100D have already EF and EF-S mounts so why not?

they are not FF.
the APS-C sensor has to cover a smaller image circle and needs a smaller mirror.

you can adopt nikon lenses on canon cameras but not the other way around (flange distance).
this is a different issue but shows you can not always expect a bi-directional compatibility.

The "S" in EFS stands for "Short back focus", which means the distance between the rearmost optical surface of the lens and the film (or in this case the digital sensor) is shorter than that of a normal Canon EF series lens. A shorter back focus does have some advantages when designing wide-angle lenses, but there's a limit to how short it can be in an SLR lens since it can't be so short that the SLR mirror hits it when it flips up. The lower limit on the size of the mirror depends on the size of the film (or sensor). Medium format SLRs need a big mirror, 35mm SLRs need a smaller mirror and SLRs with a digital sensor smaller than a full frame 35mm frame can use an even smaller mirror.

Since the sensor in the Digital Rebel is only 22.7mm x 15.1mm, smaller than the 24mm x 36mm full frame 35mm frame size, the SLR mirror can be (and is) smaller, so it can use a lens with a shorter back focus than full frame cameras, hence the EF-S lens.

Since the lens can have a shorter back focus distance, and it can also have a smaller image circle then a lens designed for full frame 35mm use, it should be possible to make a better, smaller, lighter lens for a lower cost than if it had a standard back focus and had to cover a full 43mm image circle.

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/efs-10d.html

 

[pedro]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Entry Level FF by Q1 2013?

 

[Daniel Flather]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Maybe with the mystical D600 and rumoured new entry ff from Canon, we'll see the beginning of the end of APS-C in everything but the rebel line. Really, if you have a ff camera and need more reach you probably can afford one of the TCs.

 

[pedro]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Maybe with the mystical D600 and rumoured new entry ff from Canon, we'll see the beginning of the end of APS-C in everything but the rebel line. Really, if you have a ff camera and need more reach you probably can afford one of the TCs.

I would like it to be that way again. The first DSLR I bought back in the film days was "FF" ;-) Call it 6D, 2k price tag, ISO 100-25.600, extensions ISO 50, ISO 51200, improved 18 MP sensor (feasable?), 4-5fps, 5D3 AF (don't have it yet, but I do not read lots of complaints). If you want more, pay more 8)

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Really, if you have a ff camera and need more reach you probably can afford one of the TCs.

Sure...if your variable-aperture or f/5.6 lens will AF with one...

 

[KyleSTL]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

If 7D2 is going to be full frame so yeah going to upgrade with those rumored specs!

IMHO, the only way a FF sensor on 7D2 would make sense, would be If they also gave it a crop sensor mode. Something to allow current APS-C shooters with lots of EF-S lenses continue to use their glass.

that is not possible with the EF mount and EF-S lenses.... or is it?

Well 7D to 1100D have already EF and EF-S mounts so why not?

they are not FF.
the APS-C sensor has to cover a smaller image circle.

you can adopt nikon lenses on canon cameras but not the other way around (flange distance). so it´s not always a bi-directional compatibility.

The "S" in EFS stands for "Short back focus", which means the distance between the rearmost optical surface of the lens and the film (or in this case the digital sensor) is shorter than that of a normal Canon EF series lens. A shorter back focus does have some advantages when designing wide-angle lenses, but there's a limit to how short it can be in an SLR lens since it can't be so short that the SLR mirror hits it when it flips up. The lower limit on the size of the mirror depends on the size of the film (or sensor). Medium format SLRs need a big mirror, 35mm SLRs need a smaller mirror and SLRs with a digital sensor smaller than a full frame 35mm frame can use an even smaller mirror.

Since the sensor in the Digital Rebel is only 22.7mm x 15.1mm, smaller than the 24mm x 36mm full frame 35mm frame size, the SLR mirror can be (and is) smaller, so it can use a lens with a shorter back focus than full frame cameras, hence the EF-S lens.


http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/efs-10d.html

Close, but EF-S lenses will not work on FF cameras for another reason. In the Canon system the EF-S stands for short back focus, meaning that the rear element is able to protrude further into the camera body than a 35mm lens. This is only allowed by decreasing the size of the reflex mirror.

In the Nikon system, they kept the mount and specifications for intrusion the same for their 'DX' lenses. Therefore, you can mount any DX lens onto an FX camera (full-frame). The only difference is DX lenses will not project an image on all parts of the FX sensor due to the smaller image circle. The D70 is an example of a Nikon camera with a mirror the same size as a 35mm film camera, despite having a smaller sensor size.

If you tried to mount an EF-S lens on a full-frame or 35mm camera, the reflex mirror would either prevent the lens from mounting, or would break the mirror when the shutter is pressed

 

[Astro]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Close, but EF-S lenses will not work on FF cameras for another reason. In the Canon system the EF-S stands for short back focus, meaning that the rear element is able to protrude further into the camera body that a 35mm lens. This is only allowed by decreasing the size of the reflex mirror.

well that is not close.. it is exactly what i have quoted from bobatkins an written in my first reply.

no need to repeat it

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

In the Canon system the EF-S stands for short back focus...

Actually, the -S in EF-S stands for small image circle. Yes, I know Wikipedia says it stands for short back focus, and Bob Atkins and lots of other sources do, too. But they're wrong.

 

[JEAraman]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Close, but EF-S lenses will not work on FF cameras for another reason. In the Canon system the EF-S stands for short back focus, meaning that the rear element is able to protrude further into the camera body that a 35mm lens. This is only allowed by decreasing the size of the reflex mirror.

well that is not close.. it is exactly what i have quoted from bobatkins an written in my first reply.

no need to repeat it

That's exactly what I was thinking

 

[KyleSTL]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

Close, but EF-S lenses will not work on FF cameras for another reason. In the Canon system the EF-S stands for short back focus, meaning that the rear element is able to protrude further into the camera body that a 35mm lens. This is only allowed by decreasing the size of the reflex mirror.

well that is not close.. it is exactly what i have quoted from bobatkins an written in my first reply.

no need to repeat it

That's exactly what I was thinking

Sorry for the repetition, I did not read the quoted text. What astro said about lens compatiblity between Nikon and Canon has nothing to do with DX/FX or EF/EF-S compatibility, only with FBD, which is a different story entirely.

In the Canon system the EF-S stands for short back focus...

Actually, the -S in EF-S stands for small image circle. Yes, I know Wikipedia says it stands for short back focus, and Bob Atkins and lots of other sources do, too. But they're wrong.

Citation? I know incorrect information gets disseminated pretty rapidly and thoroughly on the internet, but do you have any citation for the correct abreviation?

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

In the Canon system the EF-S stands for short back focus...

Actually, the -S in EF-S stands for small image circle. Yes, I know Wikipedia says it stands for short back focus, and Bob Atkins and lots of other sources do, too. But they're wrong.

Citation? I know incorrect information gets disseminated pretty rapidly and thoroughly on the internet, but do you have any citation for the correct abreviation?

Because I said so...

If you look at the Canon Technical Report for the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM, you'll see the notation, "*The "S" in "EF-S" comes from "Small image circle.""

Also, if you look at p. 128 of EF Lens Work III (it's in section 7, The Basics of Interchangeable Lenses...), there's a notation that, "* Some of the EF-S lenses does not employ a short back focus optical system." (yes, that's grammatically incorrect, but correctly quoted)

 

[WildBill]

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

I edited the wiki page complete with reference. We'll see if it stays.