Patent: Canon presents some interesting fast zoom lens optical formulas

Canon Rumors Guy

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    Canon appears to be working on some very fast zoom lenses for the RF mount. I’m not sure any of these optical formulas will lead to actual products, but it’s likely that these are part of the R&D for a more traditional zoom range with a fast aperture.
    These designs could be for the Cinema EOS line and not for RF. The backfocus distances are all over the place in this patent.
    Canon 30-90 f/1.5

    Focal Length: 31.20-89.85
    F-value: 1.51
    Half angle of view: 25.38-9.35
    Total length: 284.23
    Back focus: 39.00

    Canon 21-80 f/1.5

    Focal length: 21.00-80.57
    F-value: 1.51
    Half angle of view: 35.17-10.41
    Total length: 288.03
    Back focus: 39.00

    Canon 18-45 f/1.5

    Focal length: 18.01-45.01
    F-value: 1.51
    Half angle of view: 39.422-18.20
    Overall length: 308.88
    Back focus: 39.00

    Canon 40-100 f/1.5

    Focal Length: 40.00-99.97
    F-value: 1.51
    Half angle of view: 20.31-8.42
    Overall length: 282.55
    Back focus: 39.62

    Canon 45-130 f/2.2

    Focal length: 45.00-129.00
    F-value: 2.25
    Half angle of view...

    Continue reading...


     
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    entoman

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    All jolly exciting I'm sure, but I really do wish Canon and certain other manufacturers would get over their obsession with ridiculously wide aperture lenses. With one or two exceptions (e.g. 70-200mm F4), we only have two choices - either ludicrously expensive ultra-wide aperture L lenses, or cheapo budget lenses with barely usable apertures such as the RF 600mm and 800mm F11. It's one extreme or the other. Whatever happened to high quality middle-of-the-road lenses with modest maximum apertures?
     
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    dolina

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    All jolly exciting I'm sure, but I really do wish Canon and certain other manufacturers would get over their obsession with ridiculously wide aperture lenses. With one or two exceptions (e.g. 70-200mm F4), we only have two choices - either ludicrously expensive ultra-wide aperture L lenses, or cheapo budget lenses with barely usable apertures such as the RF 600mm and 800mm F11. It's one extreme or the other. Whatever happened to high quality middle-of-the-road lenses with modest maximum apertures?

    My guess is your wanted outcome will come out by 2024 when the EF system ceases being produced.

    Since 2012 the digital still camera market is shrinking as smartphones have been eating into it.

    vZrfIyZ.png


    We're in year 4 of the RF system as such they're prioritizing new products with good margins 1st that gets headlines.

    This resulted in 5 full frame RF bodies & 2 APS-C RF bodies.

    On BH Photos' Best Selling RF lenses among the top 30 listed, 16 are non L lenses from both Canon & 3rd party.

    RF 600mm and 800mm F11 are targeted at users who have

    - mobility issues and want a light & compact long focal length
    - limited discretionary spending

    If my 2008 self saw those two 1kg lenses as an alternative over a 4.5kg EF 800mm & 5.4kg EF 600mm then odds are I'd get the f/11 copies as I am lazy in carrying things and the risk of being hassled over the gear is reduced to near nil.
     
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    David - Sydney

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    Some of those focals seems like can fit in APS-c RF system, trying to do something similar and more lightweight than the 28-70 f2. Probably I'm wrong, but would be great to see options of this kind!
    The missing link for RF-S lenses is ultra wide. Yes, you can adapt EF-S lenses but otherwise there is no native UWA lens eg 10-~20mm
     
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    David - Sydney

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    My guess is your wanted outcome will come out by 2024 when the EF system ceases being produced.
    Can you point to where Canon has stated that EF lens production will cease in 2024? I believe that Canon will continue to make EF lenses as long as there is demand for them - which makes commercial sense. The batch size for the manufacturing run may decrease though and perhaps they will make a final run to fill up inventory for warranty/replacement etc then but we won't see that decision from a consumer side of things

    RF 600mm and 800mm F11 are targeted at users who have
    - mobility issues and want a light & compact long focal length
    - limited discretionary spending
    And also for occasional users who can easily afford these lenses. If I had a sometimes use for 800mm then this would be the lens I would buy rather than add a TC to my RF100-500mm.

    There is a massive difference in "discretionary spend" between USD900 and USD13,000 for EF800 and USD17,000 for RF800mm
     
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    dolina

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    Can you point to where Canon has stated that EF lens production will cease in 2024? I believe that Canon will continue to make EF lenses as long as there is demand for them - which makes commercial sense. The batch size for the manufacturing run may decrease though and perhaps they will make a final run to fill up inventory for warranty/replacement etc then but we won't see that decision from a consumer side of things


    And also for occasional users who can easily afford these lenses. If I had a sometimes use for 800mm then this would be the lens I would buy rather than add a TC to my RF100-500mm.

    There is a massive difference in "discretionary spend" between USD900 and USD13,000 for EF800 and USD17,000 for RF800mm
    Did I not mention that it was my guess? :D

    If it is occasional use then why not rent?

    Here's another guess, 2024 is also the year I expect the R1, R5 Mark II & R6 Mark II to be released.
     
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    David - Sydney

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    Did I not mention that it was my guess? :D

    If it is occasional use then why not rent?

    Here's another guess, 2024 is also the year I expect the R1, R5 Mark II & R6 Mark II to be released.
    Perhaps grammatical but I have seen that you mentioned it in another post.
    Rent is not always easy or cheap like it is in the US/Canada. You can rent in Australia but it is expensive and has minimum rental periods. Canon Australia did try a system where owners could rent their own lenses to other people via a website where Canon paid for the insurance but it was closed within a couple of years.
    https://kyoyu.canon.com.au/
    I have a passing interest from a technical rather than purchase perspective for the R1 but not for the R5ii/R6ii... Maybe for the R5iii :)
    I have more of an interested for a RPii (ff base level body) though.
     
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    dolina

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    Perhaps grammatical but I have seen that you mentioned it in another post.
    Rent is not always easy or cheap like it is in the US/Canada. You can rent in Australia but it is expensive and has minimum rental periods. Canon Australia did try a system where owners could rent their own lenses to other people via a website where Canon paid for the insurance but it was closed within a couple of years.
    https://kyoyu.canon.com.au/
    I have a passing interest from a technical rather than purchase perspective for the R1 but not for the R5ii/R6ii... Maybe for the R5iii :)
    I have more of an interested for a RPii (ff base level body) though.

    I strive to avoid confusion by using very specific language.

    By 2024 RF system would be 6 years old.

    I know some countries have already ceased imports of further EF products to avoid slow moving & non-moving items.
     
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    David - Sydney

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    I strive to avoid confusion by using very specific language.

    By 2024 RF system would be 6 years old.

    I know some countries have already ceased imports of further EF products to avoid slow moving & non-moving items.
    Then perhaps be specific....
    I expect what you want to happen to occur by year 2024 when I expect the EF system to cease production.
    My guess is your wanted outcome will come out by 2024 when the EF system ceases being produced.
    Given that EF system will be phased out by mid 20s


    I don't have an issue with Canon choosing to cease production or reduce the number of EF lenses they actively sell but they will be available to buy for a long time to come. There just isn't any clear reason to stop if Canon is still making money from them.
    Their R&D costs have been amortised to zero (except maybe the EF400/600mm)
    There shouldn't be any manufacturing learning curve for their manufacturing cost
    Parts costs should have been optimised by now but supply issues could impact this

    Canon has and will surprise me and others with their decisions when it didn't seem logical to us but they haven't (to my knowledge) given any timeline indications for phasing out or stopping EF production.

    Can you point to data for the countries that have stopped importing EF lenses? They may already have excess stock on hand to cover warranty and repairs but that would generally be at an individual lens level. EF-S lenses have reduced in range but are still essential whilst APS-C DLSRs are being sold and are the only option for UWA (adapted) focal range for the R7/10 today.
     
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    dolina

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    Then perhaps be specific....
    I expect what you want to happen to occur by year 2024 when I expect the EF system to cease production.
    My guess is your wanted outcome will come out by 2024 when the EF system ceases being produced.
    Given that EF system will be phased out by mid 20s


    I don't have an issue with Canon choosing to cease production or reduce the number of EF lenses they actively sell but they will be available to buy for a long time to come. There just isn't any clear reason to stop if Canon is still making money from them.
    Their R&D costs have been amortised to zero (except maybe the EF400/600mm)
    There shouldn't be any manufacturing learning curve for their manufacturing cost
    Parts costs should have been optimised by now but supply issues could impact this

    Canon has and will surprise me and others with their decisions when it didn't seem logical to us but they haven't (to my knowledge) given any timeline indications for phasing out or stopping EF production.

    Can you point to data for the countries that have stopped importing EF lenses? They may already have excess stock on hand to cover warranty and repairs but that would generally be at an individual lens level. EF-S lenses have reduced in range but are still essential whilst APS-C DLSRs are being sold and are the only option for UWA (adapted) focal range for the R7/10 today.

    My most recent posts are rather specific.

    RF & last EF 400 & 600 are identical in lens formula. What makes them distinct would be the built-in flange adapter (painted in silver) on the EF SKU.

    IIRC Canon offered a service to FD L lens owners to convert to EF mount L lens when EF system was starting out. That may be offered in the future for the last EF L lens SKUs. Would not be surprised if Canon removes it for a fee or free.

    vZrfIyZ.png


    Above is a line chart with worldwide shipping data from CIPA that shows the history of both dSLR & MILC bodies from year 2003-onwards.

    Last 2 years have dSLRs selling less than MILCs. Give it 2 more years and it would be nearing zero.

    I also said EF products and not lenses.

    No importer will publicly disclose that they stopped importing as it would cause an Osborne effect on whatever new old stock they have on hand. ;)
     
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    David - Sydney

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    My most recent posts are rather specific.

    RF & last EF 400 & 600 are identical in lens formula. What makes them distinct would be the built-in flange adapter (painted in silver) on the EF SKU.

    IIRC Canon offered a service to FD L lens owners to convert to EF mount L lens when EF system was starting out. That may be offered in the future for the last EF L lens SKUs. Would not be surprised if Canon removes it for a fee or free.

    Above is a line chart with worldwide shipping data from CIPA that shows the history of both dSLR & MILC bodies from year 2003-onwards.

    Last 2 years have dSLRs selling less than MILCs. Give it 2 more years and it would be nearing zero.

    I also said EF products and not lenses.

    No importer will publicly disclose that they stopped importing as it would cause an Osborne effect on whatever new old stock they have on hand. ;)
    You are using logic and conjecture as if it is fact.

    As little as 2 weeks ago, Canon made this statement:
    "Q5. What is your outlook for the camera market going forward? Additionally, will you continue to offer both Mirrorless and DSLR cameras?
    A5. The camera market has largely bottomed out at its current size. Going forward, we expect the professional and advanced amateur segment to expand further and that products will become more highly developed. Accordingly, we expect the overall market to grow from now on. As for DSLR cameras, we will continue to supply products as long as there is demand."

    Yes the chart shows the trend but Canon's statement contradicts your assertion about ceasing production for either DLSR bodies or EF/EF-S lenses any time soon. To say that demand would go "nearing zero" is assumption and not borne out by any facts. Even if you assume a bell curve then it still doesn't go to zero.

    My conjecture is that Canon will continue to make EF-S DLSRs and associated lenses until there is a RF equivalent product at the same price level. The RF ecosystem is nowhere near a Rebel T100 with kit lens for USD379. It could be that Canon retires either the EF-S system or the M ecosystem but they seem content to keep both for the moment.

    "I know some countries have already ceased imports of further EF products to avoid slow moving & non-moving items."
    If you know but it is not public then say so but until there is external information then it is your conjecture.

    I don't think that the Osbourne effect is of value for this discussion. Canon has announced products that have taken some time to be available - certainly available in significant volume but I haven't seen any figures showing current products are suffering sales because of this.
    Do you have an example to share?
     
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