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UPDATE
The forum will be moving to a new domain in the near future (canonrumorsforum.com). I have turned off "read-only", but I will only leave the two forum nodes you see active for the time being. I don't know at this time how quickly the change will happen, but that will move at a good pace I am sure. ------------------------------------------------------------
Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
Depends entirely on what/how you shoot.
Despite the years of trolling on the subject here and everywhere else on the www, as far as I can see, high low ISO DR only really helps if you're in the habit of drastically under-exposing images and have to drag shadows up by multiple stops (ie - you're not a very capable photographer - if you know how to expose a shot properly, it's an irrelevance
).
(I'm only half joking here: there is some argument that gobs of low ISO DR allows for more flexibility in generating HDR/tonemapping-style imagery without the need for multiple exposures, but by definition, in order to see the benefits of low ISO DR, you have to wrangle the shadows of a file order to manifest the difference).
But if you routinely shoot in low light, FF light gathering makes for significantly lower ISOs at any given shutter speed, and (in theory, anyway) better image quality.
But this last is hugely dependent on the cameras under discussion - many current crop sensors are miles better at high ISO than older FF sensors.
StudentOfLight said:
Depends entirely on what/how you shoot.
Despite the years of trolling on the subject here and everywhere else on the www, as far as I can see, high low ISO DR only really helps if you're in the habit of drastically under-exposing images and have to drag shadows up by multiple stops (ie - you're not a very capable photographer - if you know how to expose a shot properly, it's an irrelevance
).(I'm only half joking here: there is some argument that gobs of low ISO DR allows for more flexibility in generating HDR/tonemapping-style imagery without the need for multiple exposures, but by definition, in order to see the benefits of low ISO DR, you have to wrangle the shadows of a file order to manifest the difference).
But if you routinely shoot in low light, FF light gathering makes for significantly lower ISOs at any given shutter speed, and (in theory, anyway) better image quality.
But this last is hugely dependent on the cameras under discussion - many current crop sensors are miles better at high ISO than older FF sensors.
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
As someone who bought a 5d4, that 6d2 spec list is amazing for almost half the money.
You could have 2 of them almost for 1 5d4. Thats crazy.
This thing is going to sell like crazy. I can see it denting 5d4 sales.
As someone who bought a 5d4, that 6d2 spec list is amazing for almost half the money.
You could have 2 of them almost for 1 5d4. Thats crazy.
This thing is going to sell like crazy. I can see it denting 5d4 sales.
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
The 5D released in 2005 outperforms the EOS M released in 2012 in terms of IQ while having less resolution
... if
* you shoot above ISO 200 in terms of noise / silkiness of transitions
* you shoot low contrast scenes where you have to make things visible by adding extreme contrast
during post processing (moving black and white point) - think about fog, clouds, etc.
(The 5D brought back Kodachrome clarity for low contrast scenes to me!)
* you are in need for shallow depth of field
* you need very good per pixel quality from the center to the edges / corners of the image -
5D with e.g. 2.8 40 / 2.8 100 non-IS / 4.0 70-200 IS gives stellar image quality
While just the EOS M can deliver great images under the right conditions the 5D is superior in nearly all respects except live view (not available), weight (its a brick) and size. So I expect a large improvement in terms of per pixel IQ from the 6Dii compared to the 80D.
Maybe I will order the 6D ii ... if the IQ gain is important for my photography. But ... using the studio scene comparisons of dp review where they added the 5D classic shows to me that there are only marginal improvements in sheer IQ if you do not NEED a megapixel monster. (Besides from DR improvements).
StudentOfLight said:
The 5D released in 2005 outperforms the EOS M released in 2012 in terms of IQ while having less resolution
... if
* you shoot above ISO 200 in terms of noise / silkiness of transitions
* you shoot low contrast scenes where you have to make things visible by adding extreme contrast
during post processing (moving black and white point) - think about fog, clouds, etc.
(The 5D brought back Kodachrome clarity for low contrast scenes to me!)
* you are in need for shallow depth of field
* you need very good per pixel quality from the center to the edges / corners of the image -
5D with e.g. 2.8 40 / 2.8 100 non-IS / 4.0 70-200 IS gives stellar image quality
While just the EOS M can deliver great images under the right conditions the 5D is superior in nearly all respects except live view (not available), weight (its a brick) and size. So I expect a large improvement in terms of per pixel IQ from the 6Dii compared to the 80D.
Maybe I will order the 6D ii ... if the IQ gain is important for my photography. But ... using the studio scene comparisons of dp review where they added the 5D classic shows to me that there are only marginal improvements in sheer IQ if you do not NEED a megapixel monster. (Besides from DR improvements).
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
It seems to me that 1.999$ is a better entry point for the 6DII than the original 6D price. We are getting more camera for less USD - looking good.
I still expect a fairly rapid price drop in the street price with maybe ~150-200$ after a 2-3 months as we saw for the 5DIV and the 5DS/R before that.
6D did not do well at the beginning as it was seen as overpriced. After a few months the prrice came somewhat down and sales seemingly picked up. I think I got mine for ~1.200 USD and I've seen 6D as low as ~1.000 USD. That was great value for sure.Famateur said:
It seems to me that 1.999$ is a better entry point for the 6DII than the original 6D price. We are getting more camera for less USD - looking good.
I still expect a fairly rapid price drop in the street price with maybe ~150-200$ after a 2-3 months as we saw for the 5DIV and the 5DS/R before that.
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
I think that's just the dollar effect. It's stronger vs. the Yen than when the 6D was introduced. I'm expecting the euro price to be a little higher than the 6D's introduction price in euro.
Maiaibing said:
I think that's just the dollar effect. It's stronger vs. the Yen than when the 6D was introduced. I'm expecting the euro price to be a little higher than the 6D's introduction price in euro.
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
Didn't say anything about leaving Too many lenses to leave - i'd rather say no further investment in the future and passing the old equipment to my interns or assistants ... the sensor of the 5d iv can compete, it's really good and finally has a nice enough (stilll not the best) dynamic range and a good enough lowlight iso - the auto focus is giving me some headache during some light conditions, 4k is terrible (i don't need it anyway) and silent mode is somehow louder than on my 5d3 - af points are also kind of "big" and sometimes I wish they were smaller and hard to set accurate. If the focus is right there where i want it to be - its a good camera - but overprized (worth 2500 euro - not 3700). I'd by one more if it was cheaper.
The 6D M2 with 2 SD card slots would have been a nice camera to invest some more money in to replace our old 6ds (biggest problem is the lag of a 2nd sd card slot, thats why i am looking for a replacement) - two 5d ivs are just too much money i am paying for features i don't need ...
The problem is that they won't be able to compete in the future if they continue like nothing changed.. Tried a sony a year ago .. image quality is awesome, af was on the level of my 5d IV. Didn't balcance to good in my hands, also no 2 memory card slots, terrible menue.. didn't get one yet - but sony is on the market just for a few years and overtook nikon in the US. I want canon to compete harder with other brands .. I don't want to bash canon, they did such an amazing job in the past .. just recently i am kind of disappointed .. thats why I might have sound a bit disappointed .. sorry for bashing, hope dies last, so please canon step up in the game.
So one day i might have so much gear which is not canon, that I might change to an other brand, yes. But i am still hoping for the "princess" to wake up ..
cheers .
neuroanatomist said:
Didn't say anything about leaving
Too many lenses to leave - i'd rather say no further investment in the future and passing the old equipment to my interns or assistants ... the sensor of the 5d iv can compete, it's really good and finally has a nice enough (stilll not the best) dynamic range and a good enough lowlight iso - the auto focus is giving me some headache during some light conditions, 4k is terrible (i don't need it anyway) and silent mode is somehow louder than on my 5d3 - af points are also kind of "big" and sometimes I wish they were smaller and hard to set accurate. If the focus is right there where i want it to be - its a good camera - but overprized (worth 2500 euro - not 3700). I'd by one more if it was cheaper.The 6D M2 with 2 SD card slots would have been a nice camera to invest some more money in to replace our old 6ds (biggest problem is the lag of a 2nd sd card slot, thats why i am looking for a replacement) - two 5d ivs are just too much money i am paying for features i don't need ...
The problem is that they won't be able to compete in the future if they continue like nothing changed.. Tried a sony a year ago .. image quality is awesome, af was on the level of my 5d IV. Didn't balcance to good in my hands, also no 2 memory card slots, terrible menue.. didn't get one yet - but sony is on the market just for a few years and overtook nikon in the US. I want canon to compete harder with other brands .. I don't want to bash canon, they did such an amazing job in the past .. just recently i am kind of disappointed .. thats why I might have sound a bit disappointed .. sorry for bashing, hope dies last, so please canon step up in the game.
So one day i might have so much gear which is not canon, that I might change to an other brand, yes. But i am still hoping for the "princess" to wake up ..
cheers .
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
I feel your pain and I'm here for ya, bro! Get the stuff below and you should be set:
https://www.adorama.com/isoa9gk.html
Und!
https://www.adorama.com/fdeosnexp.html
)
timglowik said:Didn't say anything about leavingneuroanatomist said:
I feel your pain and I'm here for ya, bro! Get the stuff below and you should be set:
https://www.adorama.com/isoa9gk.html
Und!
https://www.adorama.com/fdeosnexp.html
)
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
It seems to me that there are at least three pieces to question of what the 6DII might be able to do for you that the 80D can't. At this point, the answers are somewhat theoretical, and there is something less than unanimity on these theoretical answers among those of us who post on this forum.
First Question: How big do you want to print? Up to a certain print size, there isn't much practical difference, depending on the eyesight and the tolerance of the observer. At some print size, however, theoretically, a FF camera will produce prints that are significantly better than a crop, even if the sensors of the two cameras have the same number of pixels. We may have endless hours of fun debating this after the 6DII makes its appearance, but my guess is that there won't be much practical difference below 12"by 18", at least at lower ISO levels, which leads to--
Second Question: What ISO levels are important to you? Again in theory, the print quality from a crop camera will deteriorate faster than the print quality from a FF camera, as ISO's increase, and this leads us back to the question of how large do you want to print. If you want to print large at high ISO's, the FF will have an advantage over the crop. I'm not going to make a guess at what print sizes we would be talking about as ISO is increased.
Another Question: What lenses do you want to use? Basically, this applies to the normal through ultrawide ranges. For FF, there are many very good options in the normal through ultrawide ranges, both zooms and primes. For crop, the choices may be more limited, and several posters on this forum believe that there are critical gaps in the primes that meet the needs of crop users. On the other hand, over the past few years, Canon has developed some very good, inexpensive zooms for use with crop cameras.
StudentOfLight said:
It seems to me that there are at least three pieces to question of what the 6DII might be able to do for you that the 80D can't. At this point, the answers are somewhat theoretical, and there is something less than unanimity on these theoretical answers among those of us who post on this forum.
First Question: How big do you want to print? Up to a certain print size, there isn't much practical difference, depending on the eyesight and the tolerance of the observer. At some print size, however, theoretically, a FF camera will produce prints that are significantly better than a crop, even if the sensors of the two cameras have the same number of pixels. We may have endless hours of fun debating this after the 6DII makes its appearance, but my guess is that there won't be much practical difference below 12"by 18", at least at lower ISO levels, which leads to--
Second Question: What ISO levels are important to you? Again in theory, the print quality from a crop camera will deteriorate faster than the print quality from a FF camera, as ISO's increase, and this leads us back to the question of how large do you want to print. If you want to print large at high ISO's, the FF will have an advantage over the crop. I'm not going to make a guess at what print sizes we would be talking about as ISO is increased.
Another Question: What lenses do you want to use? Basically, this applies to the normal through ultrawide ranges. For FF, there are many very good options in the normal through ultrawide ranges, both zooms and primes. For crop, the choices may be more limited, and several posters on this forum believe that there are critical gaps in the primes that meet the needs of crop users. On the other hand, over the past few years, Canon has developed some very good, inexpensive zooms for use with crop cameras.
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
I am also one among those who complain Canon is not competing enough when compared to Sony in terms of specs but there are other aspects. I tried Sony and still have a6500, Here are my problems with Sony
In spite of all the glaring reviews a6000 was a terrible camera when compared to a Rebel t5i I had at that time. I would get a 2/3 of shots in focus on the t5i Vs 1/3 on the a6000 given the same lighting conditions.
I do not like the picture quality of Sony. The black appears greenish to me. The colors are better in Canon
Sony build quality is just ok. If you search in the internet you will find stories of G master lenses that break apart from lens mount, cameras with weird errors, etc.
Sony lenses are overpriced compared to Canon equivalents.
Copy to copy variation is really bad with Sony. So the chances of getting a very good copy of any given equipment is 50:50 may be even worse.
Customer service is pretty much non-existent. I have dealt with Canon and Sony customer service. At least the people who I talked to in Canon seems to be knowledgeable Vs Sony experience felt like I am talking to someone clueless and reading their scripts over and over.
Canon has a excellent warranty and post warranty service. I had to service one of my Canon lens and the experience was really nice.
Lens collection - I know Sony is closing in on this but with questionable product quality
So to be fair there are pros and cons. To me Sony is not good enough to make a complete switch over yet.
I am also one among those who complain Canon is not competing enough when compared to Sony in terms of specs but there are other aspects. I tried Sony and still have a6500, Here are my problems with Sony
In spite of all the glaring reviews a6000 was a terrible camera when compared to a Rebel t5i I had at that time. I would get a 2/3 of shots in focus on the t5i Vs 1/3 on the a6000 given the same lighting conditions.
I do not like the picture quality of Sony. The black appears greenish to me. The colors are better in Canon
Sony build quality is just ok. If you search in the internet you will find stories of G master lenses that break apart from lens mount, cameras with weird errors, etc.
Sony lenses are overpriced compared to Canon equivalents.
Copy to copy variation is really bad with Sony. So the chances of getting a very good copy of any given equipment is 50:50 may be even worse.
Customer service is pretty much non-existent. I have dealt with Canon and Sony customer service. At least the people who I talked to in Canon seems to be knowledgeable Vs Sony experience felt like I am talking to someone clueless and reading their scripts over and over.
Canon has a excellent warranty and post warranty service. I had to service one of my Canon lens and the experience was really nice.
Lens collection - I know Sony is closing in on this but with questionable product quality
So to be fair there are pros and cons. To me Sony is not good enough to make a complete switch over yet.
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
If you already have FF cameras, then I wouldn't even consider replacing the 80D with a 6D. When I bought my original 6D, there were many shots that I could not satisfactorily get on FF compared to crop. So I bought a new crop as well. The versatility of having both was a big plus, in my opinion. I know the FF is always better crowd will jump up and down in disagreement, but it depends a lot on what you shoot. Unless you are looking to replace an older FF with the new 6D (which sounds like a great upgrade to me), then keep what you have.
StudentOfLight said:
If you already have FF cameras, then I wouldn't even consider replacing the 80D with a 6D. When I bought my original 6D, there were many shots that I could not satisfactorily get on FF compared to crop. So I bought a new crop as well. The versatility of having both was a big plus, in my opinion. I know the FF is always better crowd will jump up and down in disagreement, but it depends a lot on what you shoot. Unless you are looking to replace an older FF with the new 6D (which sounds like a great upgrade to me), then keep what you have.
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
I am genuinely upset about the fact that it only has a single card slot. Nikon has it from the D7000 up and Canon even put it in the 7d2. Seems so stupid that they would omit it from a camera that is higher end than the 7d2!
I am genuinely upset about the fact that it only has a single card slot. Nikon has it from the D7000 up and Canon even put it in the 7d2. Seems so stupid that they would omit it from a camera that is higher end than the 7d2!
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
Cellphones don't *need* a GSM signal to have coordinates. They don't *need* maps to have coordinates neither.
Some applications need maps to show data. But it is a problem releted to the application. Most of the time the applications *like* to have a data connexion to ease the *** fix: with a cold start, a *** needs a continuous 30 seconds stream from one satellite to get the ephemeris of the whole constellation. If the choosen satellite is lost during this stream, it choose an other one and retry, ... and again... With a data connection, you can get AGPS data. AGPS will download from the internet a "fresh" ephemeris table which avoid the initial – long – download, then the table is updated together with the positionning data. See: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
I've never heard that the M6 *** is "cellphone based"... Even if the chip is the same as in a cellphone, a M6 doesnt have a SIM card and neither a GSM receiver.
Regards
Jean-Luc
goldenhusky said:
Cellphones don't *need* a GSM signal to have coordinates. They don't *need* maps to have coordinates neither.
Some applications need maps to show data. But it is a problem releted to the application. Most of the time the applications *like* to have a data connexion to ease the *** fix: with a cold start, a *** needs a continuous 30 seconds stream from one satellite to get the ephemeris of the whole constellation. If the choosen satellite is lost during this stream, it choose an other one and retry, ... and again... With a data connection, you can get AGPS data. AGPS will download from the internet a "fresh" ephemeris table which avoid the initial – long – download, then the table is updated together with the positionning data. See: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
I've never heard that the M6 *** is "cellphone based"... Even if the chip is the same as in a cellphone, a M6 doesnt have a SIM card and neither a GSM receiver.
Regards
Jean-Luc
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
I have been shooting film a lot more these days, and recently got an EOS 1N, to use with my current Canon lenses. I've never used a film camera like that before, and I'll be honest, I keep thinking, why can't a DSLR be more like it? It's basic, very fast to use, and has all I need in terms of functionality. Even the 5 AF points in a horizontal line seem to be just about enough. What a great camera! But I do need digital most of the time, and the 6DII sounds great to me (touch AF and articulating screens are what make a camera modern today, and I like them both a lot).
Chaitanya said:
I have been shooting film a lot more these days, and recently got an EOS 1N, to use with my current Canon lenses. I've never used a film camera like that before, and I'll be honest, I keep thinking, why can't a DSLR be more like it? It's basic, very fast to use, and has all I need in terms of functionality. Even the 5 AF points in a horizontal line seem to be just about enough. What a great camera! But I do need digital most of the time, and the 6DII sounds great to me (touch AF and articulating screens are what make a camera modern today, and I like them both a lot).
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
Of course the 6D is a higher end camera.... that's why the weather sealing.... and the 65 point AF system.... and the dual processors.... and 10FPS.... oh wait, it doesn't have any of those......
rrcphoto said:
Of course the 6D is a higher end camera.... that's why the weather sealing.... and the 65 point AF system.... and the dual processors.... and 10FPS.... oh wait, it doesn't have any of those......
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