R5 'Exposure Simulation' behavior with and without hotshoe trigger.

privatebydesign

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Could an R5 owner confirm the way the Exposure Simulation works when a Canon and an off brand flash trigger are hotshoe mounted? I have been told that when there is a trigger in the hotshoe the Exposure Simulation defaults to 'Enable' which seems very counter intuitive to me because it is when you are using flash that the camera can't simulate the exposure, if this is true I would expect it to be classed as a bug.

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zonefocus

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See my thread


I have discovered a workaround.
 

privatebydesign

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See my thread


I have discovered a workaround.
So are you are saying it doesn’t matter which of the three settings it is on the viewfinder is always dark and pressing the DOF button makes it light? If so that is a bug as that is not how it is supposed to work.

Or are you saying it works exactly as it is supposed to, plus the fact that if you have remapped the DOF button it needs a long press?
 
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I just tested it with my R5 and Godox brand flash trigger. I went into the menu and disabled exposure simulation. Everything worked as it should. The image on the LCD screen automatically adjusted to the light level. Is this what you mean?
 

privatebydesign

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I just tested it with my R5 and Godox brand flash trigger. I went into the menu and disabled exposure simulation. Everything worked as it should. The image on the LCD screen automatically adjusted to the light level. Is this what you mean?
Hi Chris, yes thanks for that. I need it to work as it should but was told by an owner that it works like it should on theirs until they put a trigger in the hot shoe, then the viewfinder and back screen default to exposure simulation which makes everything go dark.
 
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Hi Chris, yes thanks for that. I need it to work as it should but was told by an owner that it works like it should on theirs until they put a trigger in the hot shoe, then the viewfinder and back screen default to exposure simulation which makes everything go dark.

That's interesting. I generally put the trigger in the hot shoe first and then change the exposure simulation mode to disabled afterwards. So I haven't noticed it switching to exposure simulation on as a default like that.
 

privatebydesign

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That's interesting. I generally put the trigger in the hot shoe first and then change the exposure simulation mode to disabled afterwards. So I haven't noticed it switching to exposure simulation on as a default like that.
My situation would be for product photography where I rely on ambient light, strobe modeling lights, to compose and focus but that ambient light plays no part in the actual exposure. So in the ‘Enable’ position the screens should be dark but in the Disable and During it should be light enough to compose and focus.

With my current camera I normally use During so I can do my focus and compose with the ambient but then press the DOF button to confirm my ambient isn’t impacting the real exposure.
 
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zonefocus

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So are you are saying it doesn’t matter which of the three settings it is on the viewfinder is always dark and pressing the DOF button makes it light? If so that is a bug as that is not how it is supposed to work.

Or are you saying it works exactly as it is supposed to, plus the fact that if you have remapped the DOF button it needs a long press?

Here is what I have tested:
  1. Leave expo sim enabled
  2. Assign the dof preview button to change aspect ratio.
  3. Set an exposure say, two stops under. The screen /evf dims.
  4. Attach and turn on flash.
  5. The screen /evf brightens
  6. Press dof button. The change aspect ratio selection appears. Don't select anything. Release button
  7. Press again and screen /evf shows the actual exposure.
 

privatebydesign

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I just tested it with my R5 and Godox brand flash trigger. I went into the menu and disabled exposure simulation. Everything worked as it should. The image on the LCD screen automatically adjusted to the light level. Is this what you mean?
Hi Chris, what Godox trigger were you using? The guy I know swears his does not behave like that.
 

privatebydesign

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Here is what I have tested:
  1. Leave expo sim enabled
  2. Assign the dof preview button to change aspect ratio.
  3. Set an exposure say, two stops under. The screen /evf dims.
  4. Attach and turn on flash.
  5. The screen /evf brightens
  6. Press dof button. The change aspect ratio selection appears. Don't select anything. Release button
  7. Press again and screen /evf shows the actual exposure.
Hi zonefocus, that is exactly the way I expect it to work and think it should work. What trigger model are you using?
 
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zonefocus

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Hi zonefocus, that is exactly the way I expect it to work and think it should work. What trigger model are you using?

Godox X-proc

What I have discovered is that as long as you assign ANY function that pops up a dialog on the evf or screen, it will work. But if you assign something like DOF preview that doesnt pop up a dialog, it doesnt work!! Thats why it feels like a hack!!
 
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privatebydesign

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Godox X-proc

What I have discovered is that as long as you assign ANY function that pops up a dialog on the evf or screen, it will work. But if you assign something like DOF preview that doesnt pop up a dialog, it doesnt work!! Thats why it feels like a hack!!
That’s really interesting, so if you don’t assign another function to the DOF button in any of the exposure simulation modes the screen is dark?
 

zonefocus

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That’s really interesting, so if you don’t assign another function to the DOF button in any of the exposure simulation modes the screen is dark?

I always keep exp sim "enabled" that's how I normally shoot. So when adding a flash I change nothing. But it seems when I connect a flash or trigger, although the camera wants to automatically turn off exposure sim regardless of my "enable" setting, when the evf or screen tries to display a function selector, it reverts back to exposure sim enabled.
 
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Hi Chris, what Godox trigger were you using? The guy I know swears his does not behave like that.
Hi, I'm using the Godox X1T-C.

So your friend is saying that you can't disable exposure simulation with a hot shoe trigger mounted? Very strange
 

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YuengLinger

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This is a great discussion. It took me a while to get used to the R's EVF when flash was attached, because it defaulted to Exp. Sim. Disabled, which, compared to OVF, seemed disorienting because everything was always bright in dim rooms. (So looking through EVF kind of threw off my visual cues for settings and bounce direction.)

I've always been disappointed with the R in this regard. I've just tried all the relevant options. The instructions are the same as for the R5 (or very close). See page 248 of the EOS R Advanced User Guide. But please note/remember that the R does not have a dedicated DoF Preview button. (In my case, all the DOF Preview does is make things more grainy and jerky, plus show DoF.)

No matter which option I try with the R, when a Canon Speedlite is attached and powered on, the EVF seems to compensate for what I'd call "visual comfort." In other words, as I move it from dark to dim to brighter areas in a poorly lit room, the EVF adjusts to let me see clearly, but it has no connection to my camera settings whatsoever. No change of camera exposure settings does anything to the EVF brightness. The EVF becomes a simple tool to let me see and compose, but offers no help with ambient exposure while flash is attached.

I always thought this is some kind of bug, and I've learned to just get my visual cues for flash settings without depending on the viewfinder. In fact I've come to trust the R in these situations, as things work out and it does seem to have great ETTL going with Speedlites. But it is a jarring adjustment coming from a 5DIV.

So I'm reading in this thread that the behavior of the EVF with flash attached is still not as expected.
 
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Feb 15, 2020
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This is a great discussion. It took me a while to get used to the R's EVF when flash was attached, because it defaulted to Exp. Sim. Disabled, which, compared to OVF, seemed disorienting because everything was always bright in dim rooms. (So looking through EVF kind of threw off my visual cues for settings and bounce direction.)

I've always been disappointed with the R in this regard. I've just tried all the relevant options. The instructions are the same as for the R5 (or very close). See page 248 of the EOS R Advanced User Guide. But please note/remember that the R does not have a dedicated DoF Preview button. (In my case, all the DOF Preview does is make things more grainy and jerky, plus show DoF.)

No matter which option I try with the R, when a Canon Speedlite is attached and powered on, the EVF seems to compensate for what I'd call "visual comfort." In other words, as I move it from dark to dim to brighter areas in a poorly lit room, the EVF adjusts to let me see clearly, but it has no connection to my camera settings whatsoever. No change of camera exposure settings does anything to the EVF brightness. The EVF becomes a simple tool to let me see and compose, but offers no help with ambient exposure while flash is attached.

I always thought this is some kind of bug, and I've learned to just get my visual cues for flash settings without depending on the viewfinder. In fact I've come to trust the R in these situations, as things work out and it does seem to have great ETTL going with Speedlites. But it is a jarring adjustment coming from a 5DIV.

So I'm reading in this thread that the behavior of the EVF with flash attached is still not as expected.

I thought I would revive this thread, because I have also encountered this issue. Exposure simulation is always off when my Godox trigger is attached. Even if I go into the menu and enable exposure compensation, the behaviour stays exactly the same.

In the past this has not been an issue for me, but on my most recent photo shoot it was a bit of a pain. The entire set was pure white while also being partially backlit with some light coming through some white curtains behind the subject. Because of all the white in the frame, the exposure automatically adjusted to be darker than I would like and the subject also looked darker than I would like. In this instance I was mixing the ambience with flash and aiming for a more high key look so had the camera set to actually let a lot of ambient light into the exposure. I wasn’t too concerned about this ‘dark image’ behaviour initially but I did notice that auto focus performance wasn’t as razor sharp as usual when reviewing images (mostly those with a wider lens as more white was in the frame and the image was made darker). I was in single shot AF mode, so was expecting the camera to do it’s usual brightness adjustment to help achieve focus. In this instance the camera did nothing and was trying to achieve focus with an image that was darker than I would have liked. Perhaps it was all just a coincidence? But usually when shooting natural light without a trigger on the hot shoe the camera would brighten the image as needed to achieve accurate focus. Surprised it wasn’t happening on this shoot based on past behaviour.

Having said all this the Autofocus performance was still acceptable and certainly didn’t ruin the shoot.. it just wasn’t up to the super high usual standards I have come to expect from the camera.

I am also still on firmware 1.2.0.. not sure if that makes any difference?

How is everyone else getting along with mixing ambient with flash, particularly in backlit situations or with a lot of white in the frame??

cheers
 

Viggo

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I do what I’ve always done. C1 with Exp. Sim off. Take a test shot of my ambient looking at the EV scale. Usually takes one or two shots. Turn on flash and that’s it.
 
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I do what I’ve always done. C1 with Exp. Sim off. Take a test shot of my ambient looking at the EV scale. Usually takes one or two shots. Turn on flash and that’s it.

For sure, In my case I use a similar method to you and had no trouble achieving the correct exposure and balance between flash and ambient. My interest was on the (potential) affect on AF performance in a partially backlit, white room. The subject becomes quite dark because the camera is adjusting the live view image to be darker (because of the white and backlighting etc.). The camera also did not brighten the image to achieve focus like it usually would which was strange. It would be nice to be able turn exposure simulation on with a hotshoe trigger attached to the camera (in specific situations)... but it doesn’t look like you can

Edit: Just read in another thread on this same topic that it is possible to set the DOF preview button to momentarily show the ambient exposure (even with trigger on the hotshoe)
 
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