R5: No 4K RAW video?

cayenne

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 28, 2012
2,307
312
It appears that while we have 8K RAW video, there doesn't seem to be 4K RAW video....or am I missing something?

If no 4K RAW...any ideas why it isn't there?

Think it will be added later with a firmware update?

I'd think it would be a no brainer to have 4K and maybe even 1080p RAW.....?

Thoughts?

cayenne
 

SteveC

R5
Sep 3, 2019
1,178
942
It appears that while we have 8K RAW video, there doesn't seem to be 4K RAW video....or am I missing something?

If no 4K RAW...any ideas why it isn't there?

Think it will be added later with a firmware update?

I'd think it would be a no brainer to have 4K and maybe even 1080p RAW.....?

Thoughts?

cayenne
But does it have 24 p? :D
 

Axilrod

EOS R
May 12, 2011
1,383
0
I know like on a RED Helium 8K if you shoot 4k there is a massive crop, like 3x (and like 5x+ in 1080p) since 4k size is only a small portion of the sensor. Maybe thats the same issue here. From what it looks like if you want to shoot RAW with the R5 you're gonna have to shoot 8K unfortunately, it needs to use the entire sensor I guess. In theory they could add it later but it's going to have a big crop.

Honestly I'm kinda leaning towards the R6 because of this at this point, it does better in low light and still does 10-Bit and 4K60.
 

Codebunny

EOS RP
Sep 5, 2018
478
425
Echoing others, unless a 2x crop it would not be RAW. RAW video to me means you want every last bit of information out of that sensor and then'll you'll process it yourself to 4k via cropping or downsampling.
 
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cayenne

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 28, 2012
2,307
312
Echoing others, unless a 2x crop it would not be RAW. RAW video to me means you want every last bit of information out of that sensor and then'll you'll process it yourself to 4k via cropping or downsampling.
Well, I thought the definition of RAW was data taken from the pixels more or less directly.

So, if they took data from less of the sensor to make the 4K RAW file...to me, that would still be RAW?

C
 

koenkooi

EOS R
Feb 25, 2015
1,173
963
Well, I thought the definition of RAW was data taken from the pixels more or less directly.

So, if they took data from less of the sensor to make the 4K RAW file...to me, that would still be RAW?
Medium-rare to rare?
 
Nov 3, 2014
698
507
I don't know of any cameras that do raw from less then the entire sensor. That doesn't mean there aren't any. I'm not sure there aren't other issues with how the raw data is read. In any event. Most Raw shooters wouldn't be happy with giving up 3/4th of the sensor so what's the point? Shoot 8K raw and then crop it later,
 

Axilrod

EOS R
May 12, 2011
1,383
0
It may be possible for one of the external recorder manufacturers to come up with something that will record 4K Raw, we'll have to wait and see I suppose.
 

Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
1,924
1,267
It appears that while we have 8K RAW video, there doesn't seem to be 4K RAW video....or am I missing something?

If no 4K RAW...any ideas why it isn't there?

Think it will be added later with a firmware update?

I'd think it would be a no brainer to have 4K and maybe even 1080p RAW.....?

Thoughts?
I think 5.5K RAW is more logical to be added via a firmware update.
 

cayenne

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 28, 2012
2,307
312
I think 5.5K RAW is more logical to be added via a firmware update.
That would be cool.

And again, I'm asking from a very NOOB point of view, I don't know what sensor/MP sizes translate into what xK video......

I was just thinking of a smaller RAW....that you could just take sensor data and make it whatever size you wanted.....

Still so much to learn.

C
 

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,019
651
No, it does not have it. And yes, it is marketing segmentation and it won't have it later either. RAW = 8K30p FF only.
Otherwise they would have promised it with a future firmware update like they told people at the EOS R launch.

The camera is likely fully capable of 5.1K RAW video up to 60p in the APS-C crop mode, but they won't do it (it probably has enough limitations with the heat as-is).
Internal 10-bit 4:2:2 is still impressive, to be honest, as long as the hardware+software support becomes good enough for the codec.
 

cayenne

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 28, 2012
2,307
312
No, it does not have it. And yes, it is marketing segmentation and it won't have it later either. RAW = 8K30p FF only.
Otherwise they would have promised it with a future firmware update like they told people at the EOS R launch.

The camera is likely fully capable of 5.1K RAW video up to 60p in the APS-C crop mode, but they won't do it (it probably has enough limitations with the heat as-is).
Internal 10-bit 4:2:2 is still impressive, to be honest, as long as the hardware+software support becomes good enough for the codec.
But what about to something external...like the Atomos Ninja V. ?

Could they do 4K or 5.1K RAW out to an external unit?

C
 

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,019
651
But what about to something external...like the Atomos Ninja V. ?

Could they do 4K or 5.1K RAW out to an external unit?

C
They are not designed to output RAW signal in any given form, they can only process and send that to the internal media.
They can only output 10-bit 4:2:2 4K60p signal via HDMI (no 8K or 4K120p obviously), so the main benefits are the Prores codec being less taxing on the editing or cheaper SSD recording media (and possibly a little less overheating, needs more testing).

I may be wrong, but as far as I know, from their current lineup only their most expensive cinema camera, the Canon C700 which has support for external RAW output, they are relying on recording it internally.

Nikon, Panasonic and Sony rely more on external recording, but they won't offer internal RAW in any form and it still always hanging outside the camera.

The EOS R5 can record in 8K for short periods, and it can still remain quite unassuming, fully handheld, without any kind of support.
That's quite something, if you think about it.

Pros and cons to both.
 

cayenne

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 28, 2012
2,307
312
They are not designed to output RAW signal in any given form, they can only process and send that to the internal media.
They can only output 10-bit 4:2:2 4K60p signal via HDMI (no 8K or 4K120p obviously), so the main benefits are the Prores codec being less taxing on the editing or cheaper SSD recording media (and possibly a little less overheating, needs more testing).

I may be wrong, but as far as I know, from their current lineup only their most expensive cinema camera, the Canon C700 which has support for external RAW output, they are relying on recording it internally.

Nikon, Panasonic and Sony rely more on external recording, but they won't offer internal RAW in any form and it still always hanging outside the camera.

The EOS R5 can record in 8K for short periods, and it can still remain quite unassuming, fully handheld, without any kind of support.
That's quite something, if you think about it.

Pros and cons to both.
The reason I ask, is that the Fuji GFX100, with a firmware update in the past week or so...enabled 4K ProRes RAW capability to that camera to the external Atomos Ninja V.....
It didn't and still doesn't have that internal and it wasn't originally ON the camera, but through the last firmware they added it.

So, I was thinking perhaps this could be something Canon could do later with firmware.

I figure their lab guys are as smart at the Fuji lab guys, eh?
:)

Anyway....I likely WILL get the R5 at some point, but I can't quite afford it right now. So, gonna wait a bit on the side lines and see what people report back when they get the first units in their hands.

Thank you for all the response and help, I"m learning a lot here!!

C
 

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,019
651
The reason I ask, is that the Fuji GFX100, with a firmware update in the past week or so...enabled 4K ProRes RAW capability to that camera to the external Atomos Ninja V.....

Thank you for all the response and help, I"m learning a lot here!!

C
Canon is doing their own thing and they just don't provide a lot of features to support other companies like Atomos.
Other huge companies like Apple and Nvidia are also sharing this type of practise.

Fuji and the other camera companies are different and they have their own quirks.

You're welcome. It's still annyoing hearing all this bashing from other users regarding the R5's issues, but it is good to hear professionals about what kind of work it could be perfectly suitable for, like:

- Short Films

- Music Videos

- Commercials

- Stock Footage

- Pro Stills

- BTS

- YouTube videos

It is probably not the camera made for shooting weddings or long events, but it still has an absolutely huge range of capabilities that people suddenly seem to "forget".
And it is still small and quite light as well, unlike a Panasoinc S1H.
 

cayenne

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 28, 2012
2,307
312
Canon is doing their own thing and they just don't provide a lot of features to support other companies like Atomos.
Other huge companies like Apple and Nvidia are also sharing this type of practise.

Fuji and the other camera companies are different and they have their own quirks.

You're welcome. It's still annyoing hearing all this bashing from other users regarding the R5's issues, but it is good to hear professionals about what kind of work it could be perfectly suitable for, like:

- Short Films

- Music Videos

- Commercials

- Stock Footage

- Pro Stills

- BTS

- YouTube videos

It is probably not the camera made for shooting weddings or long events, but it still has an absolutely huge range of capabilities that people suddenly seem to "forget".
And it is still small and quite light as well, unlike a Panasoinc S1H.
I hadn't really heard the bashing of the R5, until maybe yesterday, on YouTube. People are going a bit overboard complaining about video overheating, and other things....BEFORE the camera has even gotten released, with final production systems going out for review..?!?!

Not sure why people are complaining about problems before the production versions of the camera have even been released to anyone....is there a problems before there is a camera?